Ummmmmmmm......he put $350 in the bank (joint, checking, the only acct we've got) yesterday. Then he of course bought groceries, I see, which only makes sense. Sooooo.....I suppose I should ask what's the deal with that? Or, just proceed to pay bills with it, no questions asked? It says it was cash so my best guess is he must have kept some for himself too?

Weird. I'm heading out so I'll check this around dinnertime again, at which point H will have dropped off DS. I will not give him any letter or schedule, unfortunately, as I don't have either ready.

Weird.

Bumping because H's deposit into checking & leaving message "call me back when you can talk" have me confused & a little scared...

Julie
My prayers have been with you , your children, and your H.

Please help me to understand your situation a bit better.

Is your H a WS? Has he had an EA or PA?
I don't know exactly how to find your posts from a year ago so I don't know the whole situation here.

Also when I talk to prospective alcoholics I only need to ask about two questions to help me to determine their situation.

1. Do you ever feel regret or remorse for what you have done while drinking or intoxicated?

2. Do you loose control over how much you will drink after taking the first drink?

If either of these questions is answered yes more than likely they are alcoholic. It doesn't matter how often or how much they drink. It is about how they feel about their behavior after drinking and control or lack of it over the amounts.

Dr Harley's definition of an alcoholic works well when your spouse is somewhat agreeable to moderate or totally quit by positive or negative motivation. (respectful requests/offer of treatment/seperation/threat of divorce) BUT If a spouse truly is an alcoholic (answers yes to the two questions above)it is a totally different story.

Thats why in the article: How The Codependancy Movement Ruins Marriages Dr Harley Said

The care and consideration of our spouse does not leave us emotionally disabled -- unless our spouse turns out to be an addict.
When it comes to addiction in marriage, my advice is to run for cover!
But in marriages that do not suffer from addiction, care and consideration is not the problem, but rather the solution to problems.
To me it says that a bit of healthy co-dependant behavior is a good thing in M. With an addict its a whole different story. They suck out everything good in a relationship and look for more.
It would really help me to understand your situation with your H if you could answer the questions above. Has he shown regret or remorse/has he ever talked about controling the amount?

What this comes down to is choices that Julie needs to make.
By reading your posts I also thought you were ready to go to Plan B.

When it comes to alcoholics or cd people all this becomes very unpredictable. The addicted person becomes unpredictable.

I would plan to communicate to your H your bounderies at some point in the near future.
BE CRYSTAL CLEAR of what you expect right from the start.

ABSOLUTLY KNOW ONE HERE OR ANYWHERE ELSE can predict how he will react.
WHATS REALLY MOST IMPORTANT IS HOW JULIE FEELS FOR TAKING A STAND WITH WHAT SHE BELIEVES IS A BETTER LIFE FOR HERSELF AND HER CHILDREN.

I WILL PRAY FOR ALL OF YOU AND SUPPORT WHATEVER DIRECTION YOU PLAN ON.


CHRIS

http://www.aa.org/bigbookonline/en_BigBook_chapt8.pdf

IF YOU HAVE A CHANCE READ THIS-iF YOU DO DOES THIS SOUND LIKE HOME?

The fact he chose to move out instead of quiting is a pretty good indicator.

If it isn't a problem you don't leave.

My FWW is in the program, I gave her the same ultimatum 2 years ago. She just had her 2 year aa birthday.

My suggestion is to work on yourself at this point.

There is a reason you chose him and have stayed with him through his addiction.

That needs to be fixed. I was a co dependent, enabler with conflict avoidance issues.

Until I got that under control some I couldn't set proper boundaries because I wouldn't enforce them.

You need to be able to set and enforce boundaries and right now it doesn't seem that you can with him.

Julie
Sorry I did not see b-4 that your H had EA in 05.
What you are going through now probably feels a lot like EA. I know for me now (ww has 1 yr of sobriety) at times it is very hard to seperate out old behaviors.

All of this is a process and takes time-time-and more time.

Hope you can find some peace and serenity somewhere in all of this.

Chris

Julie
Pay the bills with the money H put in your JOINT CHECKBOOK. He chose to move out.
That doesn't just get him off the hook financially.
Don't just let Him go party all this off. WAKE him up.

Chris

A couple of things:
1. You asked a question earlier: What is my goal?
You need to answer that question for yourself. What IS your goal?

2. about plan B - I am not trying to talk you into a plan B, I just want to share a couple of things plan B does for you.
It removes you from your H's craziness. If you continue to watch him self destruct, it will drag you down with him. you will blame yourself, feel guilty, and lose even more of your own self esteem. Plan B removes you from that so you can try to remember what it is like to just be Julie. Not his wife who tries to save him, but just Julie. A woman, a Mom, a friend.

Also - a good plan B would show him what life would really be like after a D. Most of the time people do not really think this through. He has "left you" many times all ready, but none of those times carried any consequences. Perhaps it would be good for him to see the reality of life after D. If he continues to drink, smoke, and put you last on his list of importance, then he will end up divorced. And you will not be his friend. He will not be able to call you crying when life is unfair to him. Plan B would show him that. before it is too late.

I can tell you right now that one of your biggest "problems" is that you think you can predict the future. You have made many disrespetcful judgements about your H and what he will do. "He would never show up here. he would never stop drinking. He will D me."

Wow.If that is truly the way you see him, then you need to file for D today and be done with it.

about the money issue - I would suggest that you call him up, or send him a message that says "I need to pay the following bills. the total comes to $XXX, and I just want to make sure there is enough $$ in the bank to cover them. I will plan to mail these payments tomorrow unless I hear
otherwise."
Stop trying to guess if he has money for himself, or what he bought at the grocery store. You are just trying to enable him even more. You want to make sure he has $$, and food, etc. Stop. He is the Dad, the H. He has chosen to "dump" his W and children. He just needs to be reminded that you need $XXX to pay the bills this week, and then let him figure it out.

Nesre & WOF, thanks for your perspective. I changed the title of this thread because this morning it hit me: I've GOT to go to Plan B. Granted, I haven't been to an Al-Anon meeting in a week & YES I will go back but I've been reading up here & trying to get my ducks in a row.

H called yesterday & left a message, "call me when you can talk"

I called him this morning (it's OK, cuz it's not Plan B yet, and I WANT to give him a few "nice" conversations to remember before I give him that letter) on my way to work & prefaced the convo by saying, "I've got about 5 minutes" H went on to say he doesn't like the one evening/week & every-other wkend, he was thinking more like M-W-F & then every-other. I said, "well I'm sure you'll agree they should have as little disruption in their lives right now as possible" and he, argumentatively, said, "WHAT?!?!" Went on to say "I'm not (enter DD/11's bio dad's name here), I'm going to be around, I want to see my kids" and I said for now this is what I'm going with. H said, "well I can get them to school & back, they can sleep over here, sometimes I have shows on the weekends & I don't want to miss out" I said I will be flexible, he'll have plans & I'll have plans so we'll work around those cases, but this is what we're doing for now. He was not ANGRY but he was miffed. I said, "well I've got to go, are you available Wednesday? Can you get them after school & then back home by bed time?" He said yea, so I said OK well I have to go, we'll plan for that.

I get a text message saying, "I don't like your plan. I want to see them much more than once a week. Please don't cut me out I need them as much as you do."

I ignored it, trying to work here!

3 hours later, another: "So ignoring me and making life decisions w/out me is part of your supporting me?"

Ignored it.

Again with the "supporting me"! Where did he get this crazy idea?!? And now I understand reverse babble - I didn't make any "life decisions", HE did!

Anyway, in the last 3 days things he's said or sent via text have made me laugh - in a bad way. So I get it. Everybody, I get it. I need Plan B. I can see how a few more days of this will numb me to the point of filing the D papers myself.

SO, my plan is to pay bills, have a pleasant conversation w/him if necessary, then Wed when he drops kids off (still don't know if DD/11/not his biological daughter will go) I'll give him mail & the Plan B letter. Yes, I have intermediaries lined up. Also Wed I'll have to change locks & get my own bank account. I do hope he'll bounce back, but I get it now - that's not relevant at this point. I have to get out of this dirt w/him - I've been dirty too long!

Are you with me?

Julie
HEY GREAT

I'm with ya.

You and ML had a great Plan B letter going.

I hope you'll get back to it.

Keep your support with Al-Anon-H is nice now because your starting to confuse him. It may turn ugly very quick when he sees your changing the game here..

This may be the wake up call he needs.

Keep as much positive support as possible around you and your children.

Gotta run

Chris

Yea, I'm hoping Mel didn't block me or doesn't hate me!?!?!?

I'm going to have to make some slight adjustments to my letter, hopefully with ML's & some other Vets' blessing.

He's not being nice, he's arguing - doesn't like what I'm doing to him (this is one thing that made me laugh in a bad way!)

I didn't see it the other night, but I see it now - I think it just might get "ugly". I'm not quite sure how, and I sure hope he pulls out of it by "surrendering" & getting help, instead of harming himself or something. (that's always my concern with people, H has never really given any indication he'd do so)

It's weird, I guess I just have to come into things on my own. It's true, I was getting frustrated w/ML the other night because she wouldn't just GIVE ME THE ANSWERS!!! But as she ignored me I did some more reading & then over the weekend as H called & texted more answers came to me. Plan B is definitely necessary. And I've got TWO intermediaries! YEA!!

Julie, I still have out of town company here but I wanted to drop you a quick post...I haven't forgotten about you.

I know you are working on the PBletter. I have a couple of questions:

1. If he has still not agreed to your plans regarding the children, what will keep you dark when he continues to object?

2. Are the finances in order so that you have no need to communicate when you go dark?

3. I am still VERY bothered that you think he will be picking the kids up high. What can be done about that??

4. What are you going to do to prevent his text messsages from coming in?

I ask all of these questions so that you can be sure to execute a completely dark plan B. Backing off of this once you've started it will send him a really bad message about meaning what you say...you want to have as many of your bases covered as possible.

Hey Sickofthis,

You might not see this post tonight, sorry, I was at an Al-Anon meeting!

1. Well like Mel said, he doesn't get a say in it. The kids no that we all have our jobs & our to/from school arrangements are set & nobody messes with them - not grandma, not auntie, not dad. He's not happy, but he didn't show up here tonight so I don't think he'll do that unless I "cave" - which I'm not.
2. Finances are as in order now as they're ever going to be. We're not smart people who have savings, and on Wed. I'm planning to get my own acct & close the joint one. That's really all I can do. My PBL does say I expect him to continue to contribute...but I cannot make him, and I'm aware of that.
3. I didn't say I think he will be. I said he might. Pish/posh, I know...I doubt he will esp given the limited access I'm giving him to them. But, to answer your question, I don't know what can be done about that! My PBL also states he ought to be under no influence, and again I cannot force anything.
4. GOOD question. I cannot block them thru my phone or thru my carrier. I will investigate this, thanks for bringing to my attention. Because he's sure to try it.

**If I can't block them, isn't it OK that I just keep ignoring them? Or is it really detrimental that I don't even see them? Please advise.**

Hey Julie

#3-In the state I live in it is a FELONY to have children in car and be high or over .08 bal.

Do not let the children go with him if you suspect he is high or been drinking.
Some how address this in your PBL.

If H would bring children back while in an impaired condition be prepsred to call the cops. Theres a reason it is a FELONY.

As far as your cell phone call your provider and see if there is a code you can activate that will reject only H #. I know I can do it from my home phone but not sure with a cell phone.

Gotta run

Lots of Prayers

Chris