Wow. After over a year dealing with H's depression and career struggles, I found out for sure late yesterday that there is an A. I can't tell for sure if it's EA or PA, though I suspect it's probably a PA with not so much time together because we don't live in the same city as OW.

I'm feeling all kinds of things, but I'm able to keep myself in control right now. I'm going to work on that because I'm not ready to confront my WH yet.

I've had one session with Jennifer regarding our other issues and have now requested another for next week so she can help me with my plan to confront him.

I have no idea how he will react when I confront him and he may very likely just want to divorce rather than go through a recovery process even if it's possible. He doesn't deal with issues easily and talking about problems is almost always traumatic. This will most likely be absolute torture when the time comes.

If D is his choice, I also want to make sure I have my ducks in a row so that I don't get screwed in a D. So, while this is not my choice, I don't want to be caught off guard.

I've read the thread by WAT for people like me. Any other words of wisdom that may help me make the right decisions and get to the other side with a better M than I had to start with?

Hi KLD, it sucks finding out you are right, but its quite a relief to be able to proceed from truth isn't it? I know it was for me.

Since you're here, you know that an A does not necessarily mean a divorce. Nor does a WS initially claiming they want a D mean much.

I would ask that you post some more details of your situation. How was the M before the A started? Its great that you're talking to Jennifer. With that in mind, do whatever she tells you and use this as a sounding board to increase your understanding of the MB principles.

Sorry you find yourself here, the weekends can be slow.

hi kld,

i just finished reading your original thread and feel so very hurt for you. i feel you have been a saint in how you have cared for dh. you are a strong, loving and caring woman. whatever the outcome know you are a good person who has so much to offer. you do not deserve this. i am happy for you that you have many here who can offer help and insight. i wish you strength and happiness.

((((((kld))))))

Here is my original thread from the EN board if anyone feels the curiosity to read it.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...e=0#Post3298834

Basically, we've had problems on and off for about 3 years. He has known this woman for many years - longer than he's known me. I don't know how long the A has been going on, but it could have been years and would probably have been on and off.

It is a relief to know the truth, Tyk, even if I don't have all the details. I doubt that I'll ever get them all, not sure I even want them all. I actually think that having proof that something is going on, makes me feel like at least I'm not crazy.

One thing I'd like to ask is how most people have been able to maintain a cheerful facade before they've confronted (and even after...)? I'm doing okay, but I've had to bite my tongue a time or two to not say something rude or sarcastic.

Mrs_N, thanks for your kind words and support. I haven't been anything close to a saint, but I have done alot to help my H through difficult times. I can't say I've always been cheerful or enthusiastic about supporting what I felt were bad decisions, but I did the best I could. I do still love him and I do still want our M to work. I plan to do all I can to work things out. I've told him numerous times over the past year that if anyone leaves this M it will have to be him. I still mean that unless I find out something terribly devastating.

kld,

i know how hard it is to bite your tongue. or maintain a cheery front when you are just wanting to spew venom or cry. my dh has been involved with aw who is a friend - nothing romantic - but none the less is extremely difficult in sorting out feelings.

when i was reading your other thread i was seeing my behavior over the past few years that your dh has been claiming. the bit about being hurt and not being able to get over or past it. i am here trying to learn to let go of resentment and move on. much easier said then done.

the feeling of betrayal is gut wrenching. please take good care of you thru this. when you need to rant or cry come here. there is always a shoulder to cry on.

you are so committed to him and your m. he is a lucky guy for that.

do you know what happened to cause his first m to dissolve?

gentle hugs to you.

mrs_n, my H's first M ended because his first W had an affair. She met a guy in the internet and then met him in person. They're now married.

The thing about my H is that he has been telling me that this woman is just a friend. I can't verify what their communications have been so I can't verify his "story." We have only discussed this about 6-7 times in the last 3 years. He has told me several times that he doesn't communicate wtih her at all. Even if they are "just friends" I don't feel comfortable with this level of communication between them - daily communication of phone calls 3-4 times per week and 20-30 text messages daily.

I'm sorry you're going through similar things as me. I hope you're able to get into recovery for your own M.

So is it normal for me to read something into every move my H makes? I find myself getting more offended at inattention by him than I probably normally would. Also, the fact that he's given me zero unsolicited praise in the last year (okay, maybe it hasn't been zero, but I don't remember the last time he gave me a compliment) really hurts alot. I just feel completely alone and I know I can't take this to him. I must continue to act like things are at least as they were.

I realize I'm just venting, but I haven't told anyone yet about this latest development. I don't want to say anything to anyone until I have the details I need to confront him.

In the meantime, it's bottling up inside me and I feel like I'm going to explode. I was doing housework this morning (H sitting on couch watching TV...ugh!) and I couldn't get something to work. I got so upset because I guess this one little thing just opened up the dam. H came to help and he asked me why I got so rattled about this. Before I knew it I'd said "Because I can't do anything right." H just chuckled. I said "Well you could tell me a thing or two that you think I do right and that might make me feel better." He said that there are lots of things I do right and you know it.

I know I need to not read so much into every event, but I'm having a hard time with it right now. I know it will get better, but I don't know how much longer I can go since I've already put so much time into this. This latest info seems like insult to injury and I'm very angry about that.

The PI followed him to the airport this morning. He called me from the parking lot and said he was scared to death to get on the plane. He does have a big fear of flying, but has only been unable to get on a plane once before. Both times have been when he was dealing with depression and anxiety.

So, I'm fairly sure he's still in contact with the OW, even though the phone records don't say so. I think it's just not updated yet.

I am going to talk to my H again about seeing a psychiatrist to get into treatment for depression. I know I must be loving and helpful, but I'm so angry about this. He's dealt with this for well over a year and absolutely refuses to get help. Yet he can carry on an A and get support from OW, too. I've put so much of my life and happiness on hold to do what I feel is right to help him. I've also worked on myself to be a more desirable wife for him. All has gone barely noticed. I can't remember the last time any of my ENs were met in any significant way. I also need to say that I have wanted to do these things for him, I don't mean to sound like I only have done any of this out of duty or obligation. I also realize that I've not been perfect, but I most definitely have tried to do all the right things.

So, finally the question. I'm so upset over this latest development. The return of anxiety and depression. I am not sure how I can confront him about OW when he is dealing with this stuff, too. I know this is a question for Jennifer when I speak to her, but I wondered if anyone has had similar experiences and how you dealt with things.

I don't mean to sound like I don't care about him and his struggle. I do care - very deeply. If I truly didn't care, I'd file for D and move on.

Maybe I just needed to vent more.

KLD,

Have you considered that his guilt over being with the OW are what's triggering the anxiety and depression? My H was extremely depressed during his affair; I was jumping through hoops trying to figure out how to help him...then his A came to light. His depression lasted up until he confessed everything to me. After he confessed, he said he felt like a huge weight had been lifted off his shoulders.

Also, your H is right at the age for MLC or "andropause." There's a website that deals with that if you google it, you can find it.

BIO, I have wondered if he is feeling guilt. I have confronted him more than once about his relationship with OW and he always says they are just friends. Always the same story. I also always get that they only speak every month or two and that he isn't contacting her. This is a big lie - I have phone records for the past year.

I did look into MLC, but he really doesn't have many of those symptoms, so I don't think this is it. I'm certain that the depression started when he lost his job last November. He may have been borderline before that, but the symptoms became active in November, 2006.

It's definitely possible that his depression is deeper because of the guilt. He has told me several times that he appreciates all I've done to help him through everything and that's one of the reasons he feels so bad when he says he wants to separate.

BIO - did you have to confront your H about his A or did he tell you about it before you found out? The reason I ask, is I'm concerned about confronting my H when he's already so low.

Does anyone know how to find out where an OP works? I have done 2 background checks on her through the internet, but neither included that info. I could have my PI follow her, but this would cost a fortune because she lives about 4 hours from us.

Any other ideas on how I can get this info?

I'm doing the investigation into my H's cellphone behavior and I'm absolutely sick to my stomach. So far, I've recreated the last bill and put it into a quick summary so I have good info to present him with. 750 text messages from him to her. 784 text messages from her to him. 35 phone calls to her and only 3 to him. All in a 31 day period. I also was able to figure out that he's most likely seen her. He lied to me about when a job he was working on started and he stopped in her town on the way there. I can tell by the roaming charges on his phone and by the fact that on the day he would have been there they had no phone or text contact.

I'm absolutely sick. I know this is torture, but I think I need to continue with this so I actually can grasp the depth of deception.

I have a counseling session with Jennifer tomorrow night. I hope I can feel better after I talk to her. I'm just not sure I want this to work out now, though, after seeing these details. I do believe that people should do everything possible to save their Ms, but after all the support I've given him through his depression and joblessness this may be too much to bear. If it was "only" an affair or "only" some lies maybe I'd be able to get past it. After suffering through a devastating year along side him, I can't believe he'd do something like this to me.

Based on the lengths he's gone to to betray our M, I made an appointment with a lawyer for tomorrow. I have no intentions of filing for D at this time, but I do want to know what options I have and what leverage I may be able to use.

hi kld,

if they knew each other before you and he married was there a reason they did not get together? is it possible he is helping her or she is helping him for some other reason? could she be helping him with his work issues or depression in a *friend* manner? - not that i condone this if it were the case.

were you ever able to see any of the text messages they sent? this might give you more insight. when my dh was on the phone speaking with his *friend* if i was around i would listen to his side of the convo. this is how i knew he was really just trying to help her in her situation - but it still was an extremely difficult and awkward time for our m.

good luck with the attorney and jennifer tomorrow. be strong!

((((((hugs)))))

KLD,

The first time I confronted him after checking his cell phone logs...they supposedly stopped contact after that. He went to Qatar from July 06 to Nov 06 and they had secret contact thru Oct. They cut it off until right after New Year 07 when he ran into her again. That's when I started the intense plan A and he confessed all (I think).

If I could go back, I would have exposed to his work. They probably would have both lost their security clearances and, hence, their jobs, but the ugliness would have been hard to deny...even for them.

Mrs_N, there is definitely the possibility that they really are just friends. That's what he has always said about her. He has had a very difficult year - no doubt about that. She has a hard life from what he's told me, but it's all her own doing. He has said that she has made some lousy decisions and is always in money trouble. I think she lives in a trailer in a very bad section of town. She lost her job in Sept.

I've been able to piece together that he saw her on 12/1/07 and 12/2/07. I can't believe that he would lie to me about business trip details just so he could go see her and pat her back. I believe they've slept together, just don't know how much. She lives 4 hours from us in a town he used to visit at least every other week for the first 6 years of our M. When he left his job in Nov, 06 he stopped going there except for rare trips he made when he was trying to start his own business.

Thanks, BIO, for sharing that info. I still am not sure what my next steps are or when I'll take them. I still need to do more research to see if I can for sure determine if this is a true romantic A or if it's just an inappropriate friendship. I'm fairly certain its a PA, but want to do all I can to know for sure.

As for exposure, I don't know who to expose to at this point since I don't know where she works. They don't work together in any way now. I don't think his family will be helpful if I expose to them. His mother believes he is the best thing in the world and that I should count my lucky stars that he will even breath the same air that I do. His sister will be concerned, but she has no active or proactive bone in her body. She just won't get involved. My family will botch up any attempt to get involved, so I don't want them to do anything. Some of our friends may be helpful, I'll have to think about that.

KLD,
Have you looked up the book, "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass? One of its first tenets is that "if you have to say you are just friends, then your relationship has already gone beyond that point". I haven't finished it yet, but it does a good job of relating the dangers of an emotional affair and covering necessary marital boundaries. I think you should pick up a copy and maybe try and introduce it to your husband.

Andrew, thanks for the suggestion. I've seen reference to the book, but haven't thought about reading it. I think I'll put it on my list.

This struck a chord with me because I read somewhere that certain people who know they're going to get a certain response to telling the truth, just lie. Plain and simple. In their minds, it makes sense to lie because they don't want the response they'll get from telling the truth. It doesn't mean they're devious or distrustful or even bad...just that it is an ingrained part of their self-protection that they have built up since childhood. I know, because I'm one of them. And years of covering for H has made me good at telling my mother my car won't start instead of the truth - H is being an a$$ and won't leave the house to go to hers...that kind of thing.

What I'm trying to say is that he may be one of those people to whom it just comes naturally for self-protection, so you wouldn't yell at him, not because he had this grand plan to scam you. In other words, it's about him, not you. Does that make sense?