I am a single guy. I have never been married (yet). I have never been involved with someone who’s married nor would I in the future. Several months ago, I was doing a research paper that involves divorce and consequences of divorce and I found a board (not MB). I notice such injustice caused by infidelity and divorce including suffering of BS, innocent children, etc. What really bothers me was how these OW and OM are proud of their behaviors or at least defending it with excuses and disgusting justifications. Because how unfair and unjust these situations were, I started posting to them (mostly OW/OM and sometimes WS) and “attacked” their behaviors and sometimes them. Through that board, I found MB and then I started posting here as well. Due to my choice of screen name, BestAdvisor, I was immediately faced with hostility. I guess I have reacted to it to a certain extend and the rest…well, you all know the story.

In summary:

1) I am pro-marriage. I believe that marriages are the foundation of a community, a society, a nation, and maybe even the advancing of human race. So, my purpose on MB is to learn, grow, assist, support, etc. as evident by my posts. However, even the Bible allows a BS to leave a marriage. With that being said, I do believe that at some point, the BS should let go.
2) I am NOT your cheating spouse’s current or former partner. I know some of you had some fear about that.
3) My opinion and posts are still somewhat hostile toward OW/OM and WS, but I’ll try to control it.
4) As you can see, I am not very fond of FWS unless they are truly remorseful and evidence indicating that they will never do it again. I believe that if someone has cheated, chance are when the opportunity is right, they will do it again with the exception of a small percentage. Maybe some of you can help me change that perception.
5) Unlike a true troll, I don’t like getting attention as evident by my constant avoidance of conflicts by using ignore. If a thread heats up, I would usually not reply.
6) I am here to help, learn, support, and grow. I have got positive feedbacks about my advice and comments and at the same time, I have learned through this process. A lot of my learning came from some vets including Orchid and K, just to name a few. That’s why I am here.
7) Without prejudice and with an open mind, you will see that my comments, opinion and advice are not that different from anyone else.

BA

Wonderful job..........now stick with one NIC

How old are you?

Do you live in the US?

Why did it take you so long to give an explanation?

Why are all of your post edited and deleted under your user name BestAdvocate except for the ones on your threads? ALL of your other post have been edited by the mods.

How many user names have you used?

If research is what you're after, why don't you just read and not post?

Why couldn't you refrain from posting to people who asked you not too? You seem to feel entitled to do this for some reason.

Is all of the dissention you caused a part of your research as well?

First, I want to make one thing clear, my research was done and finished months ago BEFORE I entered this board. It's what lead me here and not why I am here.

Mopey, I think the Mods deleted and locked my posts because of what a controversy it has caused. I won't be surprised if this thread will be edited or locked within a few days if the same chaos occurs.

You didn't answer my questions.

Hello Best Advocate:

Let me preface this by saying that I didn't see for my own eyes what kind of crazy hijinx you might have been up to before. So I don't have a real bias for or against---but let me give you friendly advice.

One of the things the Harley's harp on is 'establishing a consistent track record of good marital behavior'. It's really important in marriage not to just do the right thing occasionally---but to do it all the frickin' time. The MB program is designed to create habits---good ones---for life. So you don't have to think about it---you just do it.

So, you haven't established a consistent track record here---in fact, your track record is obviously pretty damn spotty. We could say you've been lovebusting. To clean up the mess, you're going to have to work HARDER than a newbie to get the trust. Now, you could divorce and jump into the board anew---by getting a new user ID. But wait---how's that working for ya??? Not good. The behaviors stay the same.

So if I were you, I'd really focus on establishing a new track record of consistent behavior on these boards.

To your points: Glad that your pro-marriage and like MB and want to learn. There's enough stuff here to keep you busy for months! Concepts, Q&A, articles---all great stuff. Then buy the books---even better. You can learn so much with out ever posting. Want to learn more? I learn so much in a 50 minute conversation with Steve Harley that it amazes me. Having them talk with you on how the material works, and illustrate it with real life examples is amazing. Maybe you should try a MB seminar weekend.

Point 3---hostility towards OP's and WS's. It's not uncommon. But it's not helpful. Affairs are tragedies, but not only for the betrayed spouse. They're tragedies for the children, friends, family, community, and the OP and WS as well. I'd love to say that hostility works very well in fixing problems (because it's easy to get pissed), but it doesn't. The ability to see all sides (compassion), and a PLAN is often the best measure to fight these.

You say you are here to 'help, learn, support, and grow.' I think that this is a good thing for someone who is young (I assume) and going to eventually be married. I would strongly urge you to pick up the engagement books (the Four Gifts/Promises, or whatever the current book is called) and read it through. Not only will it really help you with regards to a future marriage---it'll help you get chicks as well. Because you'll understand the appropriate behaviors and how to work with relationships.

When you say you want to help and support---that gets tricky. You're not here because of your own problems---that's how the majority of us land here. In my case, I started here after having nearly a full year of Steve's help and guidance. The board was new, and I dove in not so much for support, but to help others. I knew the material pretty well---had all the books, read everything on this site, had the help with interpreting and applying the material. I actually felt that I could help people. You're younger---you haven't been married or dealt with this personally. It's unlikely that you've been thoroughly immersed in the material. With your inconsistent track record, I can't see a whole lot of people being comfortable with your support or help. If you feel you have insight to share---share it. But if the person you're sharing with asks you to stop---then I'd advise you to back off. It's the polite, respectful thing to do.

I also get the feeling that you came here through a research route. If what you're doing is research on marriage dynamics---well, I'd tell you to talk to Steve Harley directly and ask permission. In general, researchers try no to inject themselves into the studies---so you wouldn't normally be posting---just observing. Perhaps asking questions. But you should be very upfront about this. Research into people's lives, especially around these subjects---it's incredibly sensitive. It should be done with the utmost care and respect, and with full disclosure.

You have no business posting here. Except to offer shallow, judgemental and uncredible OPINIONS. Having never been married, you could do the right thing, and read all you can about what goes into making a marriage work- and leave it at that. That way when/if you do get to the alter, you can possibly save yourself some heartache by protecting your marriage with the tools found here.

To say that you'll try to "control you hostility" towards WS is pathetic, as you have no right to judge anyone.

And this is all assuming that the story you tell is true, which from your dealings here so far, is highly questionable at the very least.

Here's a thought...why don't you go find a hobby with other children your age and your lack of life experience?

I will not waste another thought on you.

Yet, you kept posting. And you kept posting to people that asked you not to post to them. Why did you feel entitled to post to people that didn't want your input?

Before passing any judgment, you should know that this post was strongly encouraged by JustUss. Yes, it may be locked if some other posters start showing up and start doing their "attack" on me and others.

I am in my 20s and yes, I am American. I recently noticed that we have tons of people all over the world including British, Canadians and Australians.

I don't see ANY judgement in what I just posted. Maybe you could point it out.

Any chance you are a relative of Justuss?

You didn't answer the question either, as usual.

Why did you feel entitled to post to people who asked you not to post to them?

This is getting borderline absurd. I won't respond anymore.

BA

Who'd thunk.

BA,

You know, over on the EN board, we've had quite a few posters who were single or preparing for marriage. I'm not telling you where to post....I'm being sincere when I say that I believe those discussions would be much more relevant for you....because it deals with the building blocks of marriage instead of infidelity. I've always thought it was the best board for singles....and have guided people in that direction. The things you could learn there about identifying love busters and emotional needs....could be applied to any relationship even during your dating years. Especially if you find that you are triggered by OPs or WSs....it would a good place to begin posting. It would also really help the board to stabilize since your participation has been so controversial. Just a suggestion.

*edited for typo

Hello, so we finally get to meet you?

Assuming you are being truthful now, I don't see any logical reason why you refused to give more info sooner.

"As you can see, I am not very fond of FWS unless they are truly remorseful and evidence indicating that they will never do it again."

I certainly can relate to that with the important difference that I strongly disapprove of WS BEHAVIOR, until they are truly remorseful and provide evidence of permanent changes, making them a FWS. WS's are mere mortals just like the rest of us. Nobody's perfect. I'm not excusing or minimizing the harm adulterers inflict and the cruelty they exhibit. But IMHO it's important to condemn and confront the evil actions while challenging the perpetrator to change. Please consider that the BS's who post here (usually LOL) still love their WS's. They are hurt, shocked, angered even about what their WS's have done; but they do not hate their WS.

Dr. Harley was involved in helping people overcome addictions. And since adulterers are basically addicts, he realized that the same skills and concepts employed to successfully deal with addictions can help stop adultery.
Again, keep in mind that most BS's really do love their WS's, many have been together for many years, they may have children together, and being married means that even if your spouse has a problem you should stand by them and try to help them. So even though it may seem hopeless to you the BS's here have good reason for giving their WS's another chance using MB techniques to help increase the odds of success.

""I believe that if someone has cheated, chance are when the opportunity is right, they will do it again with the exception of a small percentage. Maybe some of you can help me change that perception."

From what I know so far (and of course I'm still learning)
most adulterers are not serial adulterers. A LOT of people make the mistake of committing adultery! That's partly because most people just learn as they go when it comes to marriage. And people believe in a fairy tale of what marriage should be like so they get too easily discouraged and go looking for excitement elsewhere when the puppy love starts to fade. It's also because of the changes in the laws and media influences that make adultery and divorce seem so casual and commonplace.

However, I do agree that if somebody has cheated once, even if it was 'only' once, there should be plenty of evidence that they have taken responsibility for their wrong choice, ended the adultery, made an honest effort to reconcile with the BS, made compensation to the BS and BC (Betrayed Children) whether or not the BS wants to reconcile, waited a respectable and sufficiently long period of time before getting involved in a relationship again, and made permanent changes to ensure it never happens again. It is the failure to do those things, even after an adultery ends, that IMHO makes an adulterer a bad relationship risk.

If you really want to be of help here, then IMHO you should maybe refrain from posting advice to newcomers until you learn more about MB principles.

"5) Unlike a true troll, I don’t like getting attention as evident by my constant avoidance of conflicts by using ignore. If a thread heats up, I would usually not reply."

There are those who insist that the only motive a troll might have is to get attention. Therefore those who make that assumption believe the only effective and appropriate way in dealing with a troll is to ignore them. There are many posters here, myself included, who realize there may be other more sinister motives for intruders here. Therefore, it is not in our opinion very effective to simply ignore troll-suspects.

Also, you persistently employed some very suspicious and disruptive behaviors after it should have become obvious to you what specific behaviors were being objected to. Your avoidance of 'conflicts' by ignoring and refusing to reply was not exactly a valid solution to the problem since your refusal to answer questions was in fact a very big part of the problem in the first place - a suspicious behavior in itself.

Then there's still the matter of your choice in posting name. Since you are so young, have no actual experience with adultery recovery yourself, have so much to learn still, and maybe don't even endorse a BS trying to save their marriage after adultery and/or using MB principles to do so, can you admit how your choice in posting names is not appropriate because it implies to newcomers that you have more experience and knowledge than is true?

Yes, I pretty much pegged this troll. If you want to have some fun BA, why not go to an arcade and get your jollies off on gaming?. There are lots of good war games on X-BOX. Even live ones where you get to play with other real people.

And get some counseling help you to "get a life" instead of trying to make trouble on a message board.

We know (at least this much) that you are a HUMAN BEING. Like us. So you deserve a good life like we all do. Get off here and LIVE! Really live!

Go out dating! Or dancing or have some nice dinners. Get your friends together and go out. Rent a cabin with friends and have a nice adventure. Cook together and have some fun.

I believe at your age, and if you said you are single, you need to be out there socializing and working. Get your life together and you wont even want to come here ever again!

The fact that you, particularly you, come back and back here says to me you are very troubled. And you cannot seem to develop a real life. Are you in a wheelchair or bed bound? Do you have a terminal illness? That could explain it.

If you come on here again I will have to assume you are mentally ill. That would be the only reason to start posting to us older married people.

BA,

I’ve been lurking around and have seen a lot of controversy surrounding you and your posts. I don't really have a dog in this fight. But I’ve seen Orchid ask people to look at the merit of your posts; and not to just slap a label of troll on you. I admit I haven't gone back to look at your posts under other names, so I don't know what you have posted. But, IMHO, she didn't have to do that for you. Don't make her regret it.

I noticed that all of your posts except for this one has been either locked or edited by the Mods. I suspect it was done to allow you to start over. Made the most of it.

You have been given sound advice from star, K and meremortal. Use their counsel wisely. In addition to what they said, I would suggest that any future posts stick to MB principles and “your” experience with using them.

I would also suggest that you be sensitive to others on the board. In one respect, I agree with Mel. The fact is, you have hurt people that came to this board and if you want to be accepted, you might take the road that a WS would take in recovering their M. That requires accountability and openness. If you want to be valued and respected on MB it will take time and consistency on your part. You will have to earn your respect here because of your past.

Answer any reasonable questions skeptics have and just don’t respond to remarks and questions that are unproductive. You have a long way to go before you will earn the respect that many of the vets here have. A long way. And some will not make it easy. How you post in the future will determine whether or not you gain friends or adversaries.

Take it for what it's worth.

Blessings.

S&C

You know - my son has a strong opinion about infidelity, but he'd never presume to give advice to people about marriage, recovery, or anything to do with the kinds of difficulties people have here - the only personal exposure he's had to infidelity is seeing us banish OW from interaction and he was a young child and accepted the boundary.

My niece is single and 29 years old, getting her doctorate in marriage and family counseling and she wouldn't presume to do what you've done here.

Please spend some time on the emotional needs board if you want to learn how to prepare for a relationship of your own, but you really have nothing to offer here - and as we've seen, you can do a lot of harm without that being your true intention.

Please be wise. Use the power of your passion for marriage and family to create one of your own. Use the power of your vote to create political change to value fidelity. Turn off the television when they glamorize infidelity - I hope that shows like Grey's Anatomy only get your attention long enough to let the advertisers who fund that show that you will not support them when they support the destruction of marriage. And that goes for movies - you'd do well to never pay for a show like Mr. and Mrs. Smith (not because it's a show about infidelity but because the stars of that show are infidels and renting the video or seeing a show like that in the theater puts money into their pockets and furthers their exposure as legitimate people and minimizes the harm they did to a marriage, in the public eye) and you'd use the power of your influence to keep friends from attending those shows, or renting those videos.

This is how you can use your passion in a healthy way. Posting advise here is not healthy for you or for us.

yep..I have sons in their 20s. You reminded me of them in some of your postings. That's why I asked your age...

They need money but I couldn't pay them to spend time on a MARRIAGEBUILDER'S FORUM...

In all seriousness, like the others, I encourage you to seek out those in your own age group, dealing with your own issues...

This is a place filled with STRUGGLE and TRAUMA...

We are not here BY CHOICE..

Seek out places and experiences filled with FUN and HAPPINESS