Six months of Plan A - these are Bigpictures comments 3 weeks ago:


• "I feel I am on the verge of a nervous breakdown if I have to experience one more moment with their contact. I know I can't go home."


• "That was the last straw for me. I cannot look at her again right now, too much pain."


• "I cannot take anymore. I will not take anymore. She sees that I am at the end of my rope."


• "God please help us all through the misery."


Dr. Harley: "The problem with a coninuation of plan A is that it usually leads to severe emotional symptoms, including years of post-traumatic stress disorder, even when the WS eventually returns. Many women that I've counseled actually have nervous breakdowns in their effort to draw their WS back to them.

Plan B doesn't always work, but it does protect you from the intense emotional pain that you could be experiencing day in and day out."

No 2long, I was neither acting small nor low...So I do not understand your chatisement of me at all...SC's "advice" simply made me go "huh?"...The ONLY ways I could see someone giving that advice was if they were either in contact with an OP themselves or just plain ignorant to affairs in general...SC disagrees quite often with the MB methods here-and it sincerely perplexes me why she would even bother posting if she doesn't agree with MB-People come here to MB to learn MB after all...

I also don't see why some are thinking that this situation is any different than any other affair that has had a Dday...So what that the WW is now placating the BS with a few nice words and some SF (great that he does have some terrific Plan A opportunities with this situation, but I'd like to know a timeline)...So what that SHE says the affair is dead-Would it surprise you to know that a WW will LIE to get what she wants? That she will take things further underground and be as conniving as to pad the way by claiming they are just "lunch buds" in case they ARE ever seen together? I would not be surprised by this at all, so I think telling this man to just wait it out and the affair will eventually die while he watches this brutality from the sidelines is cruel...Sure it MIGHT die a natural death, but it might not...a big gamble with his sanity, imo...

I think he must draw boundaries and use the MB plans, Plan A/Plan B...He should not be told to endure the abuse...that is how I saw that advice...

Mrs. W

Mrs. W,

1. There was not a single word of advice in my post. Your interpretation of my (non)advice is incorrect. (Though, I can understand your confusion, which is why I tried to clarify in post #2)

2. It is "small and low" to slam someone personally just because their opinion "makes you go, 'Huh?'".

3. Saying "I'm not convinced" is a far cry from saying "It isn't so."

4. We agree that her continued contact with OM is cruel to BP. How 'bout that? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

--SC

That is a VAST IMPROVEMENT from what you said earlier:

smartcookie wrote:
Some "merit," huh? Meritorious for WHOM? The WW? No imminent danger?

Actually, it's pretty much a reiteration of what I DID say in my first post (if you'd read past the first two sentences.)

From post #1:



But I guess it's much more fun to take things out of context, huh?

Precisely Mel!

Mrs. W

Well, I am so relieved to hear that you really DIDN'T MEAN it when you said:

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

And this is exactly what will be your undoing! Unless you come to an understanding that their "specialness" is the ongoing fantasy that fuels the A, you will never be able to end that, unless and until, you can kill that emotion.

NO CONTACT, is the only way to achieve that!!

I wish you well,

All Blessings,
Jerry

t/j Hi Jerry, good to see ya in these parts! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Well, you had me fooled by your reply, then.

Look...

You and Mel can have this thread. I'm not going 2 argue with either one of you.

I think I try 2 see others' viewpoints when I come 2 MB. I don't feel that's reciprocated.

And particularly since bp seems 2 be gone now, there's no point in me trying 2 convince anyone that my perspective has merit, or be told that it doesn't.

Take care,
-ol' 2long

I agree with this. OTOH, I have seen a couple of men who were in ongoing counseling with S. Harley who did an extended Plan A. The men writing about it said that Steve would ask them how they were holding out and whether or not they felt they could continue. When they said they thought they could, then he encouraged them to continue.

Only BP knows what his emotional condition is right now. The posts you reference from him describing his pain seem to have been made before there was a move toward recovery. That movement may have re-invigorated him to continue longer.

I don't think he should agree to his wife continuing to have lunch with the OM, but her doing so does not necessarily mean that he needs to move immediately into Plan B.

IMO, it would seem that recommending that he contact the Harley's now would enable him to get a better plan of action. BP might even get his wife to join him in receiving counseling from the Harleys.

2long...

This thread obviously does NOT belong to Mel or I, that is simply a ridiculous and dramatic declaration by you...If you have points, make them...I'll listen, and if I disagree I will let you know that too...BigPicture HAS been back and I'm sure he will listen too...

What SC said was simply ludicrous in the context of this thread, imo...Thankfully she has clarified that what she said originally she did not mean...ShineThrough/Jerry's last quote from BP paints a pretty clear and concise picture of the situation, does it not? The WW ADMITS that there is still a "special connection" between herself and the OM...If that doesn't tell you that the affair rages on, I don't know what will...

Mrs. W

2long, just because someone disagrees with your viewpoint does not mean they don't SEE it. Just as you have expressed disagreement with the viewpoints of others on this thread, [in fact, you sought out others here for disagreement, not the other way around] that doesn't mean you can't SEE their point. It only means you don't AGREE, just as you don't agree with others.

Besides, folks come here to get the MARRIAGE BUILDERS viewpoint, not my personal viewpoint, not yours, but MARRIAGE BUILDERS. I will be the first to admit I don't know to save marriages, so I defer to Dr. Harley.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I did not mean it in the way YOU interpreted it. But I meant it.

Exactly. And therein lies the RUB, Steve is not counseling him. Steve does not expect us to do the corner cutting here because we are not qualified. HE IS. As he told me, if there is going to be variations from these principles, it should come at HIS HAND, not ours. I am sure not qualified to tell this guy to prolong his Plan A.

I very much believe he should prepare to go to Plan B. Plan A was never meant to be a way of life. I think he needs to get his ducks lined up right now, before he becomes any more beaten down.

IMO, 2Long was on the mark when he encouraged BP to call the Harleys.

I would especially encourage him to do so because he is further into the process than most since his wife is at home and is actively participating in the marriage and it appears with some expert guidance, her continued "friendship lunches" with the OM may end quickly.

He's sitting at an apex in his marriage and I hope that he will pursue wise counseling that would give him the greatest opportunity to roll down the right side of that mountain.

I think this falls in2 the top 10 disrespectful judgments I've received in the last 6 years. How the heck do you know why I posted???

Goodness groceries!

be well, honestly. I'm went!
-ol' 2long

I would add that there has been no move towards recovery whatsoever. The WW has simply redefined her affair in order to shut him up. A classic manipulation tactic. There have been other periods where they got along better than others, and this is more of the same. Just because the drunk is not falling down as much today does mean he won't tomorrow or that he is any closer to recovery. They are no more closer to recovery today than they were on December 20th. I think he wants to believe that, but it is no more than wishful thinking.

Agree, but it is important to remember that many cannot AFFORD counseling, and do just fine using the board and the reading material. His best chance comes from coaching with SH, though, as I have said before.

I have no idea why you posted and never said I did.