WH still blames me partly for his A. I don't agree. He say because he was unhappy (which I contributed to) that made him cheat. I say that's bull. I was unhappy too, so what did I do....I signed us up for counseling (before he even started his affair). He would tell me and the counselor that he was happy and didnt think our M had a problem. I'm not blind, I knew our marriage had a problem which is why I started us in MC. I didnt go out and find a hoe to sleep with. If he wasnt happy he should have just left but no, he just wanted to selfishly have 2 women.

What do you guys think? Am I wrong? Do I have some blame....I think I don't and when he says I do it hurts. Am I justified in the way I feel or does he have a point?

The affair was his choice. 100%
Accept no blame for his choice.
He had other options.

No one MADE him cheat. It was his choice. So no Waking Beauty, you are in no way responsible for his very poor choice.

I would avoid those relatonship talks with him. You really can't educate an active WS. As frustrating as it is, its futile.

Jo

Nothing ever makes an individual trustworthy except his or her own good character. An affair need not show anything wrong with the marriage, but it ALWAYS shows unreliable character--a person who does not keep promises and engages in deceit is (by definition)unreliable.

Your husband will never become a reliable partner without reforming the moral callousness that enabled him to use betrayal to make himself feel better. And as the betrayed wife, you make a serious mistake in believing that anything you can do will make your partner more reliable. Yes, you might be able to decrease your husband's unhappiness but then you will have taken responsibility for keeping him happy enough that he won't do what he should never be willing to do anyway.

BS's may be responsible for why the marriage was vulnerable to an affair, but never for the choice to cheat.

Hey WB,

Haven't seen you in a while and I'm glad that you are still posting.

You absolutely are NOT responsible for your WH's affair. You do bear some responsibility for the state of the marriage, but no one forced your WH to sleep with someone else. That was his choice entirely.

So don't buy into his lame fog babble. He's just trying to take the responsibility off himself and put it on you.

Chalk it up to another stupid WS justification for his own poor choices.

if you have that much control over his actions tell him recovery will be a breeze!!! lol

I can except that.

That may be what WH means but he says it so poorly. He does admit to 100% it being his choice, I just dont like that he basically says I partly drove him to it.


Sara, yeah I left for a while-had to take a break.

LOL

i asked Dr Harley on the MB Weekend forum if the BS is "responsible" for the affair?

He replied:

MelodyLane: Let me add something to what I have already written to you. I hope I'm not being too redundant.

You will hear Joyce and I repeat, "there are reasons but no excuses." One of the reasons for an affair is that emotional needs are not being adequately met in marriage, which makes an affair that meets those needs more tempting. But the same thing can be said of some who rob banks. They may be out of work, need money to pay the rent, ask for a loan but are refused by the bank, which makes robbing it more tempting. One reason for the robbery is that the bank refused the loan, but it wasn't the bank's fault that it was robbed. On hindsight, a bank might have helped the robber get the help he needed through social services, but the bank is under no obligation to do so, even though they advertise that it is a "caring bank."

An affair is different from robbing banks in that a couple have promised to be more caring than banks. But the principle is the same. The lack of care by one spouse does not excuse harmful behavior by the other spouse. Even when one spouse absolutely refuses to be affectionate, or to make love, or to talk intimately, or to join in recreational activities with the other spouse, it gives them no right to have those needs met by someone else of the opposite sex in an affair. They have the right to separate until the other spouse meets those needs, or even divorce when it becomes obvious that there will be absolutely no cooperation (there are many who strongly disagree with me on that point). But an affair is so cruel and so painful that nothing any one spouse does (including having an affair themselves) can justify the suffering that an affair causes.

Making a disgraceful act more tempting by someone is no excuse for that person committing the disgraceful act. Besides, in most marriages, there are times when emotional needs are not being met for reasons beyond anyone's control. That's why I recommend extraordinary precautions to help spouses avoid an affair. They are to not allow anyone of the opposite sex to meet their need for affection, or intimate conversation, or recreational companionship, or sexual fulfillment. When those needs are met, they deposit so many love units that you are likely to fall in love with that person, and make you hurt your spouse in the worst way possible. I hope that explanation helps.

Best wishes
Willard F. Harley, Jr.

Obviously, if you were not consulted and had no part in his decision to have an A, then YOU ARE NOT TO BLAME FOR HIS A.

You are only responsible for your part in the M.

It still amazes me everytime I hear of a WS blaming their BS for their pathetic choice. (sigh)

Please note he said "One of the reasons for an affair is that emotional needs are not being adequately met in marriage..."

ONE OF THE REASONS. That is not always the reason in every marriage. It WAS NOT in my current marriage. IT WAS in my last marriage.

" One reason for the robbery is that the bank refused the loan, but it wasn't the bank's fault that it was robbed. "

ML,

I applaud you. You sound so strong...I cannot imagine being so strong if faced with this a second time. Thank you for the inspiration.

RU

I agree with what Believer posted:

"Nothing ever makes an individual trustworthy except his or her own good character."

Many of the BS's here, including myself, were in unhappy marriages too, not having their most important EN's met by the WS, but that didn't cause the BS to cheat... Hmmmm... must be something more than just the failure to meet EN's factoring in, huh?

I doubt seriously Waking Beauty, that your husband was perfectly meeting all of your EN's, was he? BS's should know better than to worry too much about that typical WS excuse, because it's pretty rare for a WS to have been a superb spouse while the BS supposedly was so horribly deficient.

"An affair need not show anything wrong with the marriage, but it ALWAYS shows unreliable character--a person who does not keep promises and engages in deceit is (by definition)unreliable."

I totally agree. It is entirely within the realm of possibility for a person to cheat in spite of their spouse adequately meeting their most important EN's; and it is also entirely within the realm of possibility for a person to refrain from cheating even if their spouse is not even makig the slightest effort to meet their most importnant EN's. IMHO the MB plans include meeting EN's because it is one of the factors the BS can control. But it gives no guarantee: The integrity factor can easily trump the EN's factor.

Most likely both spouses were somewhat unhappy in the marriage but one had less integrity than the other; one used the problems as an excuse to cheat while the other tried to solve the problems.

"Your husband will never become a reliable partner without reforming the moral callousness that enabled him to use betrayal to make himself feel better. And as the betrayed wife, you make a serious mistake in believing that anything you can do will make your partner more reliable. Yes, you might be able to decrease your husband's unhappiness but then you will have taken responsibility for keeping him happy enough that he won't do what he should never be willing to do anyway."

It is one thing to make necessary improvements as part of Plan A, and to make those improvements permanent if the WS becomes a FWS, it is quite another thing to go along with the lie that the BS's shortcomings were THE cause of the WS's cheating (and therefore the WS doesn't feel they have to make any of the needed changes?).

I'm curious, does you WS defend HIS behaviors and choices that led to the adultery? Does he take responsibility for anything? Because the adultery could not have happened, even if you were the worst wife on the planet, if he had proper boundaries in place to prevent any OW from meeting his EN's. And THAT was 100% HIS responsibility! That is where his character comes into play. It's a matter of integrity.

Meeting your spouse's EN's can decrease the chance they will cheat. But it is no guarantee. Because there are other factors outside the direct control of the BS.

The BS can't stop the WS from allowing an OP from meeting an EN. And even if the BS is doing all that is humanly possible to meet the WS's most important EN's that still doesn't prevent a WS from getting more of the same, more than one mere mortal can provide, from an OP too. There seems to be some false assumption that the WS can't possibly develop an excessive appetite for, a DESIRE rather than a valid need for, something. Some people have bottomless pit desires that can't be filled by any mere mortal, maybe not even by a whole bunch of mere mortals all giving to them at the same time!

Also, IMHO sometimes two or more of a person's most important EN's may conflict with each other and therefore can't really be met by one person. Examples are wives who want their husbands to work a lot so they have a lot of money, then cheat with the pool boy because they also want a male to shower them with lots of time and attention... or husbands who wants the house to be spotless but cheat with the secretary whose manicured nails, perfect hairdo, and stylish outfits never get messed up with household chores (or at least the married man never sees them in that way anyway). That's why IMHO it is important to not merely determine what your spouse's most important EN's are and then try to meet them, but to also evaluate and POJA together regarding what constitutes 'meeting' those needs.

And I agree with what Melody posted, especially this -

"They have the right to separate until the other spouse meets those needs, or even divorce when it becomes obvious that there will be absolutely no cooperation "

I'm always AMAZED that the miserable WS didn't separate instead of having an affair.

JustKim talks about Harley's RECOVERY comment: *primary reason* for an affair [Re: _Larry_] #3251917 - 06/03/07 10:02 AM

Thanks RU! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Anything WH complained about, OW couldnt meet them. Not unless he moved in with her. It wasn't like he needed someone to talk to or more sex. I know he wanted me to took more and clean more and she didnt provide any of that.

to answer you meremortal: No, WH wasn't meeting my needs, other than financial support.

Oh I think something back in a previous post....I said the OW didnt meet any need that I couldnt....that's not true...she showered him with gifts. Which he would brag about. So I guess he has a financial need (for gifts) too.

Anywho back to the what i was talking about:


Yes that was his excuse. He Does take 100% blame for the choice he made but he makes sure to use the EXCUSE that I didnt meet his ENs and that lead him to make his decision. Though poor and wrong...yet i'm partly blame for him heading down that road in the first place.

But he's spineless anyway....never wants to take full responsiblity for anything-that's just him.


Unreliable ---YES, weak--YES....To scared to work on the M and too scared to leave---so lets take to easy way out, lie and cheat.



He had no integrity. Does he now? I dont know. He says he's a changed person but when he trys to put the blame on me....I have to wonder. You are right about boundaries....I obviously have boundaries and am a stronger person then him. Y can't he see this?? Y does he feel I gave him not choice but to take action-an A.

Oh, and I guess he has his morals back--so he say.

Oh....lol....does anyone else have this problem?

"WS gets mad, upset, offended, frustrated etc when you call them a liar while they are arguring they are telling the truth"

"WS gets frustrated because you dont believe anything that they say"

Yep, life sure is hard when you're a WS. Its like the boy who cried wolf...Those mean village ppl, why didn't they believe him, how could they be so foolish, he was telling the truth the 80th time around. Honest.