Yeah, C22, that's the biggest question mark right now. Unfortunatly we'd have to sell at a $100k loss b/c we bought about a year ago before the market crashed so much. Just hope it never comes to the point of moving/selling/etc/etc.

I'm sure W and OM are planning on moving in together very soon though and if she starts paying rent, then WE can't afford the mortgage. Half of that is her responsibility but I don't know that I can take any legal action of any kind.??

I almost wonder if I should head off a possible D with an anullment (I would think I might have grounds to disolve the marriage under false pretenses) since it's only been 6 mths. But, while that might be my best legal bet....it may also signal the complete end to any reconcilliation too.

Just not sure.

You can separate your finances from her and expose to her employer for starts.

I'm still trying to come up with the best way to expose to her employer. I feel like I need to be very discreet about it and find just the right person. I honestly feel that this might be a deal breaker for my W and I actually fear that the OM might literally hunt me down if they found out! I know they will be mad and I know I must find a way to do this, but I think this is the hardest exposure of all and I'm looking for the best way still.

Finances are just as difficult. I need her paycheck to pay all the bills /mortgage and all. I can't just cut her off b/c I wouldn't be able to pay everything. (most everything is joint). We are very equal in our amount of debt, amount of income, etc. We made an agreement last night that I'd continue to handle all bills and she'd continue to direct deposit her paychecks into our account. She did want to open her own account so she could have some "private" spending money though......this is undoubtedly a result of me telling her that I would NOT support her spending money on HIM. But, she does have a right to her own spending money just like I do and if she only takes out a little each month (which she promised to allow me to pre-approve) then it's hard for me to say otherwise.

I feel like she's got me by the balls a bit on the house b/c if she insists on getting an apartment thus insisting we sell the house we will take such a huge loss......and I just want to avoid going down that road right now. Maybe it comes down to that eventually, but I am only a few days into the actual A discovery. As badly as I want to solve everything right now, I feel like I need to be patient too and not push too quickly. I"m already exposing like crazy to everyone else. I almost feel like the more I push, the faster I'll drive her out of her Aunt's house and into an apartment with OM. That seems as if it would be very bad.

I finally called her Aunt, whom W is staying with, and who got to talk to W for the first time last night about things. I had already told Aunt whole story. Aunt probably has the most influence on W of anyone in my opinion and could be biggest ally. Unfortunatly for me, Aunt is being very proper about things and says she can't tell me what they've talked about....says she can listen to me, but can't divulge their confidential discussions (makes you think Aunt is a shrink or something!). I asked her what sense she got though, and she said she feels there is still hope. She said I have to just backoff and give time and she thinks there is a chance still. She says she's extremely impressed with me and so happy about how I've handled this whole situation. I know she understands my pain and wants to help me just as much as W. Aunt said W was very up front about the A and everything and doesn't know we've spoken.

I guess that makes me feel good, but I also wonder if W maybe was able to make Aunt believe that her feelings for OM were so strong and real that this is "meant to be"....I really don't know. I think Aunt is much smarter than that and I have extreme faith in her understanding of these issues, her spirituality, etc.

Maybe I should tread lightly for a little while and keep working plan A....not jump ahead of myself too much?? I will continue to expose to other friends and family, but I don't know if I want to get too agressive too fast either. Even though most discussions b/w W and I just end up undercutting my new found hope and making me lose faith.....I think I see and hear positive things from others that show maybe there's a chink in the armor...some uncertainty on W's part still.

It really does seem that the more WE talk, the worse things get. I think family and friends can do some good right now but I'm only hurting the situation.

Your fears will only hold you back. No offense, but grow a pair. The OM should be afraid of you. Take your proof, schedule a meeting with her employer and then sit down with them (you should probably have a letter prepared), show them your proof, and tell them you expect them to do something about it. They probably won't, but at least they will sit down and talk to your WW and OM, making it quite uncomfortable for them.


Divorce will cost more than your WW losing her job. No offense again, but geeze, you are a pushover. She is your wife. She is not entitled to have "private" spending money to spend on her affair partner. Part of the consequences of having an affair is for her to have to handle her own finances, not have you be her financial planner.


Exposure is your friend. You are putting pressure on her affair. As for the house, speak with a lawyer today to see what your options are. You might want to go ahead and file first (or at least file for a separation) just to expose her to the financial consequences. You can always drop the divorce later if you want to.


Blood is always thicker than water. Don't expect much from the aunt. Don't talk to your WW about your relationship. Just make conversation. Expose to her employer quickly. The longer you let this drag on, the less effective exposure will be. It's time to man up.

On a side note, if you do lose her, it's probably for the best. This woman wreaks of being a serial cheater and a completely horrible and selfish person. I'm sure she's great to be around when she's happy, but when she isn't, she's toxic. If it doesn't work out, you can and will find better, but you better learn from this experience and avoid dating anyone like your WW again. Try dating someone who isn't on their 2nd or 3rd marriage OR is divorced under similar circumstances to you.

Wow, good stuff. Thanks for all the input. I'm really doing some hard thinking about all of that. I feel like I need to take a day or so off....I've been going 24-7 since this all happened and I just need to think for a bit.

I appreciate all the info jmwc, I'll do my best to get tougher. Thanks

See I differ a bit from JMw's post. I see her aunt as your ally. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Be patient. Let her work through this with your W at her pace. Older people may have a slower way of dealing with an issue but often it has longer lasting results.

JMHO,
L.

Thanks Orchid, I tend to feel that way too (doesn't mean I'm right).

Her Aunt has helped my W through a bunch of tough times in her life and is probably the best "parental" figure W has ever had. Her Aunt is the only one that has forced my W to step up and take responsibility for things and b/c of that my W respects her and listens to what she has to say.

I hear through the grapevine that Aunt is insisting that W seek some counseling and also try to focus on more spiritualism in her life. We are both sort of agnostic and don't buy into organized religion so much, but we both believe in spiritualism and a higher power.......so maybe that will help her at least start to look at the morality side of what she's doing here.

According to her Aunt yesterday, W actually offered up the A info. to her without any prodding.....the only person my W has told to my knowledge.....so that shows how much influence the Aunt has.

The hard part is that all I can think of 24 hours a day right now is these 2 in bed together. I'm just killing myself thinking about it. And, I know that it's going to continue that way for a long time b/c that's all they want to do is be together. It almost seems like now that they've been discovered they feel like they can stop sneaking around and really get on with the A. I bet they feel a big weight off their shoulders right now.

Every hour that passes makes it harder and harder to keep the faith and even to keep the feelings of love and respect that I have for my W.

Boy, the roller coaster is sure going down that first big steep hill right now and my stomach feels it!!!!

Staying the night with my SIL & BIL. SIL is W's #1 most important person in the world but she's been behind me so much through all of this. Constantly has invited me to come spend the night with them so I'm finally going to take them up on it. A boys day out on the golf course tomorrow should be a nice exit for a few hours too.

Just talked to W's best friend and apparently W, her best friend, and my SIL all got together last night to talk about things. All I've heard so far is that W was really "calm" about things......but I'm sure that was a fog-laden calmness and probably convinced them that she really felt for OP, no love for me, knew what she wanted, etc,etc. I'll find out a lot more tonight hopefully when I can speak to both individuals at greater length.

I know there's no way that W can go from texting OM about "getting me out of her life and finally living out her dream with him", "i will love you forever", "can't wait to make love to you again", etc. and then 2 days later have any sort of clarity so I'm trying not to get my hopes up.

All I want to hear is that W is uncertain or has doubts about what she is doing. Everything W has told me indicates that WE are done, she knows she is meant to be with OM, and she sees no more future for us. But if there's at least a little doubt in her mind, then the seed is still planted, which is no gurarantee, but at least it gives me some hope.

Man this is tough. You all are so right about it.....I can't believe this pain.

Thanks for the support

I think I already know the answer to this....but I thought I'd ask anyway.

Since I unearthed the EA on 1/5 and the PA on 1/8, I've exposed to lots of key family and friends of the W. W had been avoiding them up to that point in time or if she did talk to them she was just blaming me for our failed marriage and the way she felt. Now that I've exposed and she's starting to know it, she's actually starting to talk to these key family/friends about the A (or at least about the OM....I sort of doubt she's presenting as an A but rather her "true feelings" for her "soulmate" type of BullSh*t). Anyway, I don't yet know all the results of these "talks" b/w W and family/friends (will learn more tonight hopefully), but those people are all sort of telling me to back off a bit and give her a little time to assess things.

Part of me believes this. I think I sense a little uncertainty creeping in. I felt some of that early on (5 wks. ago) too but the more I pushed her the less uncertainty there was and the more she seemed to be relying on OM....feels like I pushed her further away. She's very angry now but at least since it's exposed to some key family members that uncertainty MAY, I stress MAY, be creeping in a bit again. If it really is, I feel like I should back off for a few days and see if family can make a breakthrough without me pissing her off any more.

The other side of me thinks that her family/friends are hearing this from W...."I just need some time" ,"he just needs to leave me alone for a while" and they are believing it. I"ve tried to coach all of them on her fog and why she is doing/saying everything but don't know if they all fully understand or not. The people that W has talked to openly in the last 48 hrs. though are people I trust a lot.

Only 3 days into the PA discovery so I don't feel like I should necessarily get too carried away with workplace exposure (she's on sickleave due to surgery for another week still but OM is back teaching) as I already have gotten key family doing some pushing for me.

Any thoughts on laying low for a few days (like family says I should) or just continue to be 'nuclear' about the exposure (as I've read in a former post) ???

ILA,

As long as your WW and OM work together, your situation will NEVER improve. Your goal should be to get NC FOR LIFE into place. That includes exposure to the school.

The marriage has a 100% better chance of surviving her anger over exposure at the school, than it does while an OM is still in the equation. Like Jim said, man up an do the exposure, before your WW has a chance to "warn" school officials that her jealous husband is spreading rumors about her messing around. Preemptive strike! This exposure is one of your best and most powerful weapons to bring an end to the A.

Well, my W spoke candidly with her best friend and sister on Thursday night, and on Friday I talked to them. Best friend didn't see any hope...said W was very calm and acted like she knew what she was doing. I'm sure this is the fog and W is doing a good job of convincing her of everything. I spent Friday night/Sat. with W's older sister and she unfortunatley saw/heard the same things....but at least she understands exactly what my W is going through. There's a long history with my W of running away from her problems (due to childhood, no father, addictive step father, you name it). Everytime W gets to a big hurdle in life...long term relationship, marriage, kids, even finishing college was difficult....she gets afraid about something, gets afraid of the uncertainty and responsibility ahead of her and runs away. So far every man in her life has allowed it to happen. I know now it's for good reason too. She's cheated on them all. I knew that she had already "moved on" as she put it before her first divorce was finalized...but everyone hated this idiot so I didn't ever put too much stock in it. I knew of a few other sexploits, but only yesterday in speaking with a close family frined did I hear that all of those situations were my W cheating on a boyfriend.

I know now that this is my W's M.O. As sad as that is, this is how she tries to end a relationship....she gets afraid, wants to run away, and the easiest way to get rid of the man is to do something so hurtful that he has no choice...she cheats on him.

I realize that she knowingly does this and I'm sure consciously is doing it to me now. But she doesn't know WHY she does it or how to stop doing it. As hurtful and devastaing as this is right now to me, knowing this almost makes me feel like I love her even more deeply. I'm sure that all sounds insane to you, but I know what she's dealt with in her past and I guess I always knew that it could potentially be a problem some day....but when I made the self-commitment to my W to love her unconditionally and spend my life with her...I knowingly accepted that.

I want to HELP her. No man in her life has ever fought for her and my soul tells me that if she will realize just how hard I'll fight to keep her and she knows that I'll never give up on her like everyone else has....that we will get through this. But, man it seems nearly impossible right now.

She did call me last night to say that she'd taken $30 out our checking account (which I asked her to do) and mentioned that her Aunt has convinced her to see a counselor tomorrow. We've never been church-go'ers and my W doesn't believe in organized religion but I know she's been looking for more spirituality in her life recently. Aunt got her lined up to see someone through Aunt's church so I know this has to be a very good thing. I returned W's call and told her thank you for being up front about the money and that I was very proud of her for taking this step to see someone. I said, I know it's only for you right now and not for us....but nonetheless, I feel very proud that you've taken this step. That's all we talked about..I wanted to be brief.

Due to all of the advice from everyone here, and contradictory to the advice of family members....I went ahead and put in a call to W's co-worker at her school. This is a pretty good friend of W's (her mentor of sorts for teaching). She doesn't know my W's whole history by any means, but she and her husband are high school sweethearts from Indiana and I know they have tremendous values and morality. She hasn't called me back yet, but I think I'm going to try and expose to her first to see if she can start spreading the word at school, put a little self-pressure on my W, etc. The other friends of W I don't trust so much....I almost think they'd support the A b/c they are buddies with OM too....it's a little clique that they run in at work. This fiend I'm going to speak to and her husband were our photographers at our wedding too and the husband is even subbing for my wife for another week while W is out on sick leave due to recent shoulder surgery....I think these two are my best ally at workplace. We'll see what happens.

I'm also preparing myself to contact the principal as he and my W are very close actually. Principal came to our wedding too. I think he could really use his friendship with W as well as job position to hopefully exert some pressure. Since it's teachers at a school, I doubt there is any workplace policy on dating....but maybe he could at least threaten them a little.

So, I'm happy W is going to see counselor tomorrow and I'm easing myself into having the guts to expose to her workplace....but it all seems very helpless still. I just know how completely head-over-heals W and OM are right now and I know how much W has lost the feelings of true love for me. We don't have kids, W is ok financially on her own, etc. so I sometimes don't feel like she 'needs' anything from me in regard to fulfilling her emotional needs. Sometimes I think that the OM can completely fulfill all her needs so the A may never break down. But, I'm going to try my best to stay positive and keep plan A-ing the best I can right now. My mother just came out and is staying 2 weeks with me since W is staying at Aunt's house. Although she'll probably start to annoy me soon!....I know it's good to have someone around so I'm not all alone.

Any further advice is always appreciated. I'm really trying but it seems really grim right now.
Thanks for listening
ILA

Bumping Up....am I insane for still feeling this much love for a serial cheater? (see last post).

I know for a fact that this is just how she's wired and she just needs professional help to get over it. Nobody's ever tried, all the other men just walked away so W thinks that's how you end things, you cheat on them and they'll go away. But she's never had anyone like me before. This is by far the most serious loving person she's ever had and I know she feels the same way deep inside.....she just got scared again and ran. I won't ever give up on her b/c she means that much to me....even with all that she's just done to me.

Am I just an idiot or what?

I'm married to a serial cheater, too. You are not insane for your love for her. I love my WH,too. I have no advice. I have asked myself that same question. And no, you are not the idiot.

Well, interesting turn of events just happened. My W had her mother and step-dad move away when W was in high school and the neighbors took her in and have treated her like a daughter ever since. Their 3 boys call my W their "sister" even though she really isn't. I've really been talking alot to them b/c I know they will fully support me.

Well, my W called this afternoon about coming home this week to get some clothes and mentioned she was going the this "other" family's house for dinner. I then called "other" family and just visited about the upcoming dinner a bit.

As it turns out, the father, who is always very soft spoken and non-confrontational told his wife that my W was NOT welcome in their house right now. So the wife called my W and told her this. This is the 1ST PERSON WHO'S STOOD UP TO HER! I guess my W was crying and saying "why", "why"? She still couldn't understand b/c of the fog she's in.

Then, W called me...extremely emotional and crying hard...moreso than any emotion she's shown me through the last 5 weeks. Of course she blamed me for pitting her family against her and everything. But, I was very diplomatic and "played dumb" a little too. W admitted she knows that she cheats on men to get rid of them but that's just "who she is". I kept telling her it doesn't have to be that way and I wanted to help her out of it. She finally hung up on me.

I called right back and told her to just listen for a minute. I reconfirmed that as long as she's with another man I can't do anything to support her, but that I love her deeply in spite of everything and I wasn't going to give up on her like every other man has. We "saved" each other when we met, don't know where I'd be right now without meeting her, etc. Said she'd never met a man like me who loved her enough to help her end this toxic cycle. She was still very upset and didn't respond to any of it....but at least she heard it.

This feels like a breakthrough....somebody finally rocked her emotions. But, now she's so upset with me and doesn't want to see me or talk to me she claims. She wants me to be gone when she comes to get clothes but I won't be (my mother is here so somebody will be here 24/7.

What do you all think....is this a good thing? What should I do next? "other" family of hers says I should box up her clothes and have them waiting! I don't know what the next step should be....feels like her emotions are on the ropes and she is seeing a PC tomorrow finally. Feels like I need to ACT right now but not sure what to do!!!

First off, I don't think serial cheaters can be fixed. But if you are intent on giving this a try, you need to expose to her boss at work. I would keep up with plan A for a while longer, until she moves out if she's going to. If you do eventually reconcile, your WW needs to get INTENSE counseling, otherwise you are bound to wind up in this position later down the road. You do not want to have children with this woman unless she is truly fixed. I would recommend walking away from this person, but if you don't, do not settle for table scraps.

You need to be applying ever increasing pressure to end the affair. Good work on the exposure to family and those who's feelings she respects. I would call the principal of the school as well. You already put it out there and the rumor mill is going to be buzzing, its best that he hears it from you first and knows that you are wanting to save the marriage. Its quite likely that he fires one or both of them, but one of them is going to have to leave anyway for the marriage to have a chance and NC to be established.

Stay strong, you're taking the right steps, attacking the A and executing Plan A very well.

Good luck!

Well, I think I've about given up hope. After W was extremely upset that her "other family" wouldn't accept her into their home right now, I ended up driving over to meet W where she was house-sitting. I just wanted to give her a hug, make sure she was ok, and "be there for her" in this time when her emotions were finally open and available. She wasn't there, so I called and found out she was on the way. As it turns out, she was ready to call me and sit down and seriously talk too....so we were thinking the same.

Well, we had a very long, calm, emotional, honest talk. W was initially upset that I'd been giving "my side" of the story to her family members and she thought I was only telling them of the A and not of our situation over the past 2 years. To that extent she's sort of correct. I HAVE been blaming the A for everything since I discovered it a week ago. Being on this website so much made me believe that was the WHOLE story.

W told me she just didn't have that special, spiritual feeling for me that she thought she needed. We've lived together 5 years and married 6 mths. ago and I never thought that was a potential problem. She talked about everything that was good, how much she loved and cared for me, but she just hadn't been able to get over this lack of that special connection. Claims she regretted we got married and that she drug me so far down this road, all the time knowing there was something missing in her heart. She said she just didn't want to give up hope either...that's why she kept trying, thinking it would show up. I told her I know that feelings been there, at our wedding 6 mths. ago I'm sure it was.....she didn't deny nor confirm that.

Anyway, we both expressed regrets that we hadn't communicated properly and we never were able to confront this sooner. We both agreed that it probably could have been fixed had we done that but she feels it's simply too late.

W claims that A and our problems are separate, although she deeply regrets jumping into A with him so soon b/c of how it has hurt me. I told her there's no way they are independent of each other. I said that if OM didn't exist that we'd still be working things out right now....she wouldn't have given up all hope. She didn't think that matter b/c the "feeling" was just simply gone. She also claims she really believes that feeling that she's been looking for is present in her for OM.

W is seeing spiritual advisor today from Aunt's church to work on herself. She said she felt very comfortable and at peace with her decisions and just wanted to confirm that she really is walking down the right "path".

I told her how much I'd grown through this and now that I finally understand everything I just know that our marriage would be so different. She cried every time I said that b/c she was just sad that I couldn't have understood before now. I said if we'd gone through this with other people and had only just now met that things could be amazing and she totally agreed.

I told her she'd saved me when we met, don't know where i'd be today without her and visa versa. She fully agreed with me on that too.

So, it is apparent to her that we have everything in place for a great marriage and life together except for her lack of that true "in-love" spritiual connection. She just doesn't think it can be recovered and unfortunately with OM in the picture she will never try. She's convinced that she wants to try with him instead b/c she thinks he's the one she is supposed to be with.

This is what sucks....she doesn't deny anything...just says that we aren't right for each other and that what she's looking for in her life is with someone else. I don't know how to combat that.

In my soul, I know that if he weren't in the picture and she was able to calm her spiritual mind, that she would start to find it in herself to try again. And if we tried, that we would be great....just b/c of what we now know. Our marriage really would be galvanized by this. But, I don't know if she will ever come to that conclusion.

We left things on a calm note, agreeing to take a little time to think still before making any final decisions. We both can't see a life without each other involved...at least as friends. Of course I told her that it may be hard if she ends up with OM and of course she understood that.

W claims that she's really talking to OM about breaking things off for a while just to let her work on her spiritual outlook and make sure this is right. But, since they work together there won't be NC, and I don't know if she can truly step far enough back on her own to make that work. I"m torn....part of me wants her to ask him to back off, find it in her heart to come home and try to save our marriage, but I don't know if her heart would be fully into it. The other side of me just hopes their relationship continues on and maybe the A will run it's course and end....then she might come back with the right mind set. But, if they truly do have this connection....then they may end up together for good.

Boy, where do I go now? I found out that several teachers at her work already know (from W and OM telling them) and I got a call back after our talk from the one teacher that I had contacted. So, I spilled the beans to that teacher and then called W to let her know I did it...to be honest. W was very upset, especially after what we'd just discussed.....but she'll get over it. I just don't see any way to expose to her boss now b/c that will likely end any chance of reconciliation. She's been cleary hurt enough by the exposure to date and it has made a dent....but anymore seems like it would drive her away for good. I think the word is on the street enough to do what it needs to do.

I don't know if I should give up and move on or not. Part of me thinks that if I really continue to plan A really hard that maybe she'll find the conviction to give it a try. We even talked about not wanting to sell our house for a huge loss and maybe at some point she moves back in, but more as "roommates" than husband and wife. Of course that would be difficult if she were still with OM. I just can't see her truly working on us with her full conviction until she tries to make it work with OM first.

This sucks but part of me feels a little more calm today. It's sort of a feeling of acceptance, although I don't even want to consider throwing in the towel yet. She now says to call her and we can talk whenever....which is not something she was willing to do before. We seem to be on the same emotional plane finally but it's just a plane with very little hope for the future.

Time apart and some spiritual healing? Is that my best bet now? I'll try to keep plan-A'ing the best I can.

Dude, she's infecting you with that WS Fog with all that "spiritual" talk. If that continues, you'll eventually find yourself agreeing to let get be with the OM with minimum fuss on your part. What's all this stuff about "it will be hard to remain friends if she chooses to go with the OM"? You should not even be considering it at all!

What hasn't her boss been told yet? The stick of Plan A is not to avoid, but to *instigate* conflict that will break up the A. Appeasing an active WW over concerns about her A becoming exposed is not going to bring her back to you - it just lets the fantasy continue on for much longer and get more entrenched. And if she does choose to leave over the exposure? Well, at least that will bring your M to a quick end, rather than this slow torture that you're putting yourself through.

EVERY WS says this stuff! Read the other "just found out" threads! She may believe that she "never had these feelings" or whatever, but it is in all likelihood a part of the "fog", the rewriting of history that is a part of the justification for having an affair.

Don't get sucked into this. Regardless of what happens, at some point, your W DID have these feelings for you, and can again if she would end the A.

Continue Plan A. Part of Plan A is to avoid relationship talks with your WW.