I see that you are STILL wringing your hands and doing NOTHING and looking WEAKER every day!!!

HOPING for improvement, while DOING the same things is really pretty foolish. Think about it ... just how has what you have been doing working for you???

You have one bullett with which to fight, and apparently NOW you aren't even considering exposing to the school principal (School Board) ... WHY???

EXPOSE or DIVORCE, but do SOMETHING!!!

QUIT being her DOORMAT ... women HATE weak men and will only USE them and then throw them away!!!

Do you think it would be beneficial to go to the school principal with the OM's W? I don't know if she'd do it or not....but I thought it my carry more clout that way.

I've decided to contact W and OM's school prinicpal(s) to expose. I want to see if they can meet me for a sit-down soon. I'm also going to call OM's W tonight to see if she wants to join in.

Principal and Assist. Principal are good friends of my W (although her bosses) and both actually attended our wedding 6 mo. ago. School doesn't have a policy against dating that I know of. W actually talked about it in front of me, saying "it would be sort of weird for a while" but a few of their friends/co-workers already knew (their side of the story of course). I already told one of W's co-workers and respected peers and W flipped out.....but next day W talked to her and W said she was no longer angry with me, which means W got her convinced of her side of the story.

I know W and OM will respond to questions with, we have already told spouses we want divorce/or may even claim they've filed. They will blame everything on spouses and say this is truly what they want to do. Of course principals will tend to believe my W's rebuttal more than my plea I'm sure.

Any thoughts on what I might say that will make them take some action? Without a policy of not dating for teachers I don't know how much good this will do. They may just never even address the problem.

Help? Ideas? I hope I can meet them this weekend to talk.
Thanks

I would write a letter telling them of the affair, your decision to continue to work on the marriage in spite of the affair, and your expectation that they do the right thing and see to it that this behavior is not tolerated at their school. I would also include anything that you know that happened on the school grounds, even including things like texting. I would copy the principal, the superintendant, and the school board on the letter (some people might not want these kinds of people teaching their children). As for the content, maybe you could start a thread asking what to include. I would try and ask Mr. Wondering, he is good at these things.

You tell him what's going on and that you are trying to save you marriage. You ask him how it looks to have two married people involved in an adulterous relationship working at his school, and ask him what kind of example that sets.

I will bet you anything that type of behavior is covered under some type of "ethical conduct" clause in the employee manual, and it isn't going to be well recieved, no matter what your WW thinks or has told you. If he appears reluctant to act, ask him if he thinks you'd be better off discussing it with the school board and the state board of education. Last thing he will want is them all up in his [censored] about something like this. DO NOT threaten him. ASK him if he thinks that might help. He'll get the drift.

Bring the truth, be calm and rational and make sure he knows that you are trying to save your marriage, not attack your WW. Also let him know that you wouldn't be upset if he felt he had to fire both of them.

ILA,

MyRev probably means well but his pain is showing in his response to you. Pay attention to the productive part of his post and make changes. Hope this doesn't stop you from moving forward. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

It will take a while before you realize that communicating with a WS is hurtful. We can tell you but until your mind and heart get in sync, you will continue to try and treat the WS as if she is your W. In reality she isn't your W, she is a horrible person parading in your W's body.

Yea..... we use the term alien coming from the mothership as a way to differentiate between our real spouse and the WS.

Given that point, learn to tell the difference between the 2 and work on your communication skills when dealing with each one. ok? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

As for exposure, make sure the ones you are exposing to understand the purpose of your exposure. It isn't a revenge or gossip thing. U R fighting for your M and want their support (if possible). Sometimes letting others know you appreciate and respect their support in turn makes them want to help you. Of course you should also let them know that while you w/b willing to hear their POV and support info, you ask they respect your decisions.

Set the foundation for support. You'd be surprised where your support can come from . <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

With all due respect, Orchid ... and I mean that ... I don't think you understand the BH/WW dynamic that many BH's have a hard time dealing with, and I don't see it addressed here that much.

I understand that this point is "arguable", but BH's often "freeze up" from the wrath of their WW's ... in effect they become paralyzed by fear of their WW's and take to heart their words of "if you interfere, this will drive a permanent wedge between us" and just shut down ... too afraid to do much of anything and just wander aimlessly confused.

For some reason, this rarely happens in the BW/WH scenario ... I believe, because most wives aren't so easily "snowed" by their husbands.

With BH's ... if you appeal to their "manhood" ... they will often respond, albeit reluctantly, and almost immediately see an improvement in their situation. It may never get back to where they wish it to be, but they start regaining their confidence, feel better about themselves, and at least give themselves a shot at recovery ... if that's what they're seeking.

It is my belief that many WW's went wayward after they lost respect for their H's, due to problems within the M pre-A, then when the A opportunity presents itself, they magnify the BH's shortcomings out of proportion and then project those missing qualities onto the OM (often mistakenly, as the OM will likely never live up to that fantasy ideal the WW has created).

Once the BH's starts acting like he deserves respect, he starts to look better to the WW and the OM looks much weaker in comparison. I can't explain it (mainly because I simply don't understand women's thought processes like I do men's), but it will often hold true if there was anything worth saving in the M pre-A, and the WW still has some love for the BH. There is just something about a strong, decisive, and loving BH that is very attractive to a WW, especially if that WW "perceived" that her BH had lost interest in her pre-A.

... and on the flip side, nothing is more unattractive to a WW, than a BH who continues to appear weak and allows her to continue to disrespect him through her own actions, due to his INACTIONS.

I agree for the most part with MyRevs assessment and intentions.

I do not have enough experience with this to be able to say anything with certainty, but it really does seem to me that the quicker a BH can get his legs back under him and begin to assert himself, the better. Its better for the BH, and I believe it is better for the M, giving a greater chance of recovery for several reasons.

BH's that let thier wives walk on them for too long are going to build up a HUGE amount of resentment, moreso than those that step up quickly and put an end to the abuse they are willing to tolerate. There are of course many factors involved and every situation is unique, but I think there is a tipping point beyond which a BH should not go. When a WW starts openly flaunting her infidelity, ridiculing and rubbing the BH's nose in it, that's a very bad state. It means the WW has lost ALL respect for the BH and no longer cares what he thinks, and it means the BH is going to quickly come to hate the WW. Once hate sets in, its hard to get back.

If a BH will step up and start to act in his own best interests, then this situation is less likely to arise. Many times stepping up checks the WW's behavior and the A ends. If not, stepping up will at the very least result in a BH removing himself from the abuse via Plan B before he allows his WW to so flagrantly disrespect him that hate grows.

I know Harley says Plan A for six months or longer. In some cases I completely understand that, but in others, including many occuring here on this board now, I think the BH has allowed his WW to go too far and even if the WW does eventually come back, the damage that has been done is going to be even harder than usual to recover from. I think its possible to recognize this point and prevent it with both the enforcement of stricter boundaries by the BH and/or the willingness to implement Plan B sooner.

I speak from my own experience, but also from reading many other threads. In many cases, once the BH steps up and lays it on the line, the WW quickly realizes that her actions are about to have irreversible consequences and returns to the marriage. If not, and a good Plan A has been executed then there really is no significant harm done. Theres little difference between a WW disrespecting a submissive BH or a proactive BH as far as the WW is concerned, there is a big difference in the mind of the BH, which is, I think, the critical difference.

Wow, that was very well put! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Makes me wish all over again that I'd found MB when trying to cope with FWH's As...INSTEAD of finding OM. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> *sigh*

Lori

Lori,

Thanks for posting. Since I don't understand the "thought processes" of WW's during this crazy time. Would you be willing to share your insights about how WW view their BH's relative to respect and asserting themselves after they've discovered their WW's A?

I would really like to hear what you have to say on the subject, and it may be very beneficial to ILA to get some insight into how his WW views his current status and efforts (or lack thereof).

Hmmm....well, it's been a very long time since my A (13+ years), but I'll try.

I think I was really of two minds about how I wanted my FWH to act after he found out about my A (which I guess some would call a "Revenge A"). On one hand, I thought I wanted him to just leave me alone to continue on with my "feel-good" relationship with OM.

On the other hand, when H started to step up and actively fight against my A, I realized I felt stirrings of respect for him...something I hadn't felt in a while before that. It also said to me that he actually CARED about our marriage, about me...that he was actually paying attention to me. That he was willing to put some effort into keeping me, and not just because he didn't want anyone else to have me.

Mind you, I didn't act like I appreciated it! I acted mad and defensive when H did anything that threatened my "independence." But, it got harder and harder to convince myself that independence was what I wanted/needed. H did a lot of the right things...he basically Plan A'd me. Started acting more aware of my needs, was kinder to me and the kids, put more effort into being a good husband and dad than he ever had before. It made me really mad at first...I remember saying "too little, too late"...but it DID have a positive effect on me.

Deep down I knew all I was looking for anyway was to feel loved and cherished. I'd much prefer to get that feeling from the man I married and had children with than some dude who would have sex with another man's wife. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I don't know if any of that rambling can help anyone, but that's a little of what I remember thinking way back then. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Lori

I guess I should also say that, while my H did a LOT of things right with regard to ending my A, he also did one HUGE thing wrong...he started confiding in a friend/co-worker, who coincidently was unhappy in her marriage, too. You can guess what happened with all that. By the time my A was totally over, his EA had begun.

Maybe our convoluted story isn't the best one to get advice from. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> But, at least it has a happy ending! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Lori

Lori......boy does that help. I don't think you could have put it any clearer exactly what it is that I'm seeing and feeling from my W. Only when I really start getting somewhere and she sees how hard I'm fighting, does she feel the need to sit me down and convince me to give up. I think, like you're saying, that is because she is getting defensive and mad about threatening her independence. When she thinks I've given up she's an entirely different person, couldn't be more night and day. Then she's happy-go-lucky b/c we are just freinds in her mind.

Your quote (sorry, I haven't figured out how to insert quotes yet...rookie!) about "deep down I knew...." sure makes me feel good. If anything gives me hope, that does!

I also talked to OMW for 2-1/2 hours last night! I'm glad to hear that, although she's not fighting quite as aggressively, she is fully committed to saving her M and her H (which I wasn't sure about). Also got lots of feedback about how caring and civil OM has been to her recently. I think that, too, goes right back to the quote you made, Lori. OMW and I are really working together now, but she's a little afraid to be too agressive b/c she's worried about losing her daughter (claims OM has a really good lawyer).

No woman will ever be as caring as the man, and no man will ever be as tough as the woman (that came from our MC)....just the way M&W's souls are. That's what I see right now. OMW is seeing the emotional attachement to their M and my W is just being tough and stubborn with me. I think, like Lori said, deep down they want nothing more than to fall back in love with their spouse and their family. Lori, that comments about the plan-A stuff making you mad at first, the "too little too late" reference....that couldn't be more dead on. That's exactly what is happening in my situation. I'm glad to know that it does get through....just can't be realized yet. All of this shows me just how important and affective plan A can be.

Great feedback, all of you. MyRev, Tyk, Orchid...you guys are awesome! I am making strides to quit being such a wuss and start standing up for my respect. It's tough for me b/c I know my emotions drive me more than some men. That's probably why I'm so committed to fighting for my W though too!

I'm going to set up talk with pricipal...OMW was all in favor of it too. She didn't want to be involved though b/c she's scared of losing her kid. I told her I'd do the dirty work even though it could hurt my chances with my W....it does have to be done.

Thanks all. Tremendous help here today!!!!!
ILA

Glad my thoughts were of some help to you, ILA. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

If there's one thing my marriage has proven, it's that there is always hope! We couldn't have screwed our relationship up more if we'd tried...but, we didn't give up (at least at the same time! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />). It took us a while, but we created a good life for ourselves and our kids. We're best friends, and have been for years. (Thanks in large part to the tools I got from MB! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />)

Just keep doing the best Plan A you can, but don't forget Plan A is not just about getting her back; it's about positive changes for YOU! And don't give too much credence to what she says right now...I said some really stupid crap that embarrasses me to this day.

Hang in there.

Lori

Thanks Lori....just got off the phone with W. She had left message earlier today about her brother (not real brother, but "brother" from the "other" family that took her in during high school when her parents moved away...this family means a LOT to my W). Apparently brother, who is 22 yrs. old, was partying last night and texted W at 4 am, drunk. She ended up talking to him. Brother mentioned a threatening voice mail from OM that I'd saved and played for the whole "other family". Of course, my W was pissed I played it for them. She didn't yell at me, just voiced her displeasure. I danced around it a little then quickly started to shoot back about me not needing to tell them anything. Her friends and family have made their own decisions b/c she has decided to walk out on her marriage. I also told her that I wasn't going to stand for her calling to blame me every time a family member had the guts to stand up and tell her how they really feel.

I told her that I knew she'd lost respect for me and that's why we'd drifted apart, that she questioned whether I really cared enough about her.....but that's all I'm doing is trying to show her how much I do care and how willing I am to fight for her and our M. A couple minutes of that kind of stuff. She didn't really respond, as usual. Just sat there and listened until finally saying, "that's enough". She hung up in an angry mood, and I left saying "just know my intentions are good".

I think the fact that she read my extremely heart-felt letter last night (I assume she did) is why she wasn't screaming at me on the phone. I sense she's understanding just how much I care and part of me has to believe she appreciates it deep down. But, all she can show me is anger right now.

I don't intend to keep getting into these type of discussions...just want to plan A and avoid the relationship and A talk, but it seems like this is the only time we talk b/c she's not living at home. It seems hard to plan A and hard to avoid these types of discussions in our current situation.

Lori, does any of her reactions sound typical to you? I'm curious. Do I just have to leave her alone for a while?

ILA,

I'm glad some of the "tough love" stuff is getting through. It really is that important for you to take back your self-respect and confidence, and exposing to the school authorities is a GREAT step in that direction. Remember, you didn't cause any of this, its not your fault ... you are simply fighting for your family like any good husband/father would do ... NEVER apologize to your WW for that.

Just remember that after exposure, your WW will go ballistic. Others here are much better at scripting your responses, so get their input and be prepared for the venom she will spew. As long as you know its coming and are prepared for it, its impact on you will be greatly lessened, because you will understand the source of the venom.

I'm sorry for the harsh words ... I really am a BH supporter. We BH's tend to get lost in our own "fog" at times, and it often takes another man questioning our "manhood" to break through that fog and reignite our self-respect ... once you start standing up for yourself to outsiders (us), then it makes for an easier transition to stand up for yourself to your WW.

Now that you've re-found your "voice" ... don't make me bring the "wood" to you again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Please take my advice with a grain of salt...there are others here who are far more knowledgeable than I about the details of implementing Plan A.

With that said, it sounds like you're trying to educate her and to make her understand how you're feeling/thinking. That won't work. Just makes you sound self-righteous and it's annoying to a WS. K know that's silly and totally not fair...but, remember, the thinking of an active WS is stupid.

If she calls to let you know she's displeased about something or other, just diffuse it with as few words as possible..."Yes, I'm sure it does hurt to know your brother thinks so poorly of you right now. I hate that you're hurting." Then move the convo on to happier stuff..."Have you seen the new *** movie. It's hilarious!"...or bring up something funny or interesting that you saw/heard that you know she might be interested in. Don't sound TOO hardy-har-har, but just try to stay calm and smile when you talk. It helps.

The heart-felt letter was ok, but I wouldn't bother doing that again until there is NC.

I think the "reverse babble" concept that Orchid is so good at would be very helpful for you!

Lori

Lori, you're exactly right....it does make me sound self-righteous to her and I know how much it annoys her. That's why she'll listen for a few minutes then finally say, "ok, enough, I don't want to talk about this"....I know it, but I still do it for some reason! I'm trying to take steps to stop it now though.

Good suggestons, I love what you're saying. Input from someone who's been in her mindset is soooooo helpful....thank you, thank you, thank you!

My Rev, thank you too. I appreciate your willingness to stay on my [censored] about this stuff. It does help to hear criticism from others and it makes me act. I'm going to ask her principal to please not let anyone know I came to him....especially not my W. If I can avoid the venom, I want to.....but I will also prepare myself for the fallout. MUCH appreciated!

ILA,

Let me follow up on something Lori mentioned ... she posted:



When talking with your WW ... be positive, even happy. It's something I ran across when I was researching what to do in my own situation ... I implemented it and it seemed to work great. The theory is: Women will not leave a happy man.

I know it sounds strange (and simplistic), but it works and I think is what Lori was getting at in her quote above. There is something about you being happy, when you should be falling apart, that puts a WW completely off of her game and makes her question "what the he11 is going on???", which is really what you are looking for ... something/anything for her to "stop and think" a little about what she's doing and what "you're" doing.

Keep in mind, the most effective stuff in dealing with a WW's A is counter-intuitive to what you would think of by yourself. Remember a few day/weeks ago ... you were trying to make sense of stuff that makes no sense ... now you're learning to fight fire with fire, so to speak.

Good Luck!!!

Screw that. The principal knows because you told him, and you told him because you want her to stop f'ing someone she works with. And if you can think of anyone else to tell that might help stop her f'ing him, you'll do it as soon as the thought occurs to you. If she doesn't like you telling the truth, she can change her behavior.

You aren't some sneak gossiping to your wife's boss. You're a husband who's W is cheating on him who is trying to save his marriage. You're telling him because it is in his best interests to not have this type of thing going on under his charge, and you want him to do something about it. Make no bones about the fact that him acting in his own best interests happens to coincide with your interests. If you play this right, your W will get suspended very soon and probably fired. Oh well. . .sure sucks that they don't want adulterers teaching children, doesn't it?

Remain Fonzie cool when she explodes about this. And she WILL. My WW reacted like a cat with turpentine on its [censored].