I know you are right...I feel so weak right now. I guess I"m starting to ask myself "is this really an A ?" or is this my wife just moving on in life b/c she's already made up her mind?

I know that's crazy to think, but that's what I'm doing.

You fight it with everything you have. Doesn't mean you will win, but you will know that if you lose, it won't be bacause you didn't try.

Also, it is probably very difficult for you to see this right now, but through this fight, you will learn a lot about yourself, who you REALLY are, and what really is important to you. However it works out, there is a process you are going to have to go through. Whether that process is recovery and rebuilding the M, or divorce and moving on with life, you will have to go through it, and both ways have thier challenges. So you do everything you can to bring about the outcome that you want, and in doing so, you are setting yourself up to succeed even if the outcome is otherwise. Thing is, as you grow and learn, you will see that whichever way it goes, YOU will become a better person in the process.

Sounds cheesy, but I believe it is true.

Also: expose this A to her principal at work.

It will not be acceptable to him that they are involved in adultery. You might even ask him what the other parents at the school would think if they found out that he knew and didn't do anything about the situation. Not a threat, just a question, you know?

I've lived a long time, and in all that time, I have never personally known or been acquainted with, a married couple who maintained "that special, spiritual feeling" 100% of the time. See, that's just it. Marriage isn't based on "feelings" because those come and go depending on which way the wind blows... it's based on commitment, in spite of your feelings.

What your wife is saying is common fogspeak. Please don't take it to heart.

It sounds like exposure has really gotten her attention. Good job. Carry on with Plan A whenever you can and ignore her professions of no feelings of love.

I don't have any advice for you other than to expose to her superiors at work. Just do it already. If you want your situation to improve you are going to have to take this step. It's time to [censored] or get off the pot. I don't want to hear any updates until you've done this.

ILA,

You need to realize that for the most part I ONLY post to other BH's, and they normally consist of one of two types of posts, because there are basically 2 types of BH's ... Those who will move heaven and earth to save their marriages and do whatever is necessary to stop their WW's affairs ... and then there are those BH's who have ZERO self-respect and are too paralyzed by fear to take any meaningful action to help themselves.

Which category do you think you fall under???

You have dabbled at exposure, but not enough to have any effect on your WW, and have AVOIDED the hard things that may make a difference, but possibly make your WW upset.

IT NEVER CEASES TO AMAZE ME THAT A BH WOULD BE WORRIED THAT HIS WW WOULD GET UPSET OVER HIS EFFORTS TO STOP HER AFFAIR.

If you don't have the "stones" to stand up for yourself, when she is intentionally humiliating you, just what is it that makes you think you are an attractive option for her???

Women HATE clingy, begging, whining weinies!!!

The ONLY person in this whole cluster#$%& that you can have any type of control over is YOU, and until you get some self-confidence and start ACTING like a man who deserves RESPECT, you won't get any from your WW, or anyone else for that matter.

Personally, I'd cut my losses and start over as the NEW AND IMPROVED ILA, but that's your call. In the meantime, I'd become the best person I could become ... physically, mentally and emotionally ... so that whether I chose to attempt recovery or start over, I'd be in a position to learn from this experience so I would not have to experience anything like it again.

Revelation: I understand what you are saying and I know you are right for the most part. I do feel like I've been working hard at this. I've thought about nothing else 24 hours a day for the 5 weeks this has been going on. In the last 24 hours I've gotten the family that had the most parental influence over my W (not her real family) tell W that they won't accept her in their house for what she's done. I also exposed to a co-worker and had my W get very upset that I was "screwing with her career". I'm working my [censored] off to save this marriage and won't give up (even if I was fighting doubts this morning).

I was a little unsure b/c I finally heard my W accepting all that we HAVE had, coupled with that which she feels is the deal breaker....and she was telling me in all honesty (although it may have been foggy honesty). That's the first REAL, honest talk we've had since this happened. It is easy to believe her and it did set me back a bit....but I will NOT quit on this, I promise.

I want to hear how her session went with her counselor today and maybe work that angle just a bit while the door is open to it. But, after that I will absolutely pick up the pressure again.

Thanks for the prodding and tough love!

If you think that she had a "real, honest" talk with you then I have a bridge to sell you. You need to keep the pressure cranked up. She is having these talk to try and manipulate you into backing off. Her hinting that exposing to her employer would be a "dealbreaker" is a threat so you will allow her to continue her affair unimpeded. She's manipulating you with fear alternating with having long talks with you. If you want to kill this affair, you need to man up and fight to stop it. She's your wife, are you just going to stand there and take it? She's your wife, she doesn't get to screw some coworker without consequences. It's called tough love. I know you are scared, but you've got to trust us, we've all been through this. She'll raise he11 for a week or two after you expose and say all sorts of mean things to hurt you, but you got to realize she's just a junkie who is lashing out because you've ruined the fantasy of her affair. It will blow over after a while. You just need to do whatever you can to get NC established. NC IS THE KEY! Take back the CONTROL!

I'm glad you recognized it for what it was ... NOW DO SOMETHING MEANINGFUL!!!

She has told you where her "soft spot" is ... EXPOSE TO HER SUPERVISORS!!!

Think of it this way:

1st ... If you have any chance at recovering your marriage, there will need to be NO CONTACT for life between your WW and the OM.

2nd ... Since they work together, that means at least one of them will have to quit or be fired.

3rd ... Exposing to the Board of Education (or principal) will likely achieve #2, so exposure to her work helps achieve NC and STOP THE A. ITS A WIN-WIN SITUATION FOR YOU!!!

Yes, she will be furious, but why should you care. You didn't make these actions necessary ... SHE DID ... by her own actions. You are just doing what is necessary to protect your family.

Now ... DO WHAT IS NECESSARY!!!

HA! I was mad at MyRev when he gave me that talk.

ILA,

My waywardxGF had the same issue of cheating to get out of relationships.

My suspicion is that your wife has borderline personality disorder. That lack of spiritual connection is her thinking that you could fill the void in her heart.

That's why she has cheated to end all of her relationships.
She leaves relationships when things get too complicated for men who initially fill that void. Then eventually they let her down and she seeks out a new man to fill that void.

Cehck out the site www.bpdcentral.com and google boderline personality disorder and look at the criteria. If she does have BPD then the criteria will make a lot of sense.

Tyk....but now???

Now he's not mad because it saved his marriage. I would advise you to take the same advice.

That's why I was asking...I don't know everyone's story yet and was hoping that would be the response. I like hearing that people save their marriages through all this crap!

Thanks

Well, I wrote a long letter to my W last night that I'm going to mail to her today so she receives it at her Aunt's house tomorrow. I'm sure that she is feeling like she accomplished her goal Sunday night of convincing me that we were through....I definitely made it to easy on her. But, she also showed a lot of emotion and her heart was open at times as we discussed our the good parts of our relationship. Her appointment with a spiritual advisor at church got delayed until tomorrow.

I simply wanted to try to appeal to her deep feelings, reminder her of all of the good things we've shared, and hit this from a bit of a spiritual angle myself. I didn't plead with her or beg her at all in this letter. Just reinforced how I knew where we were, why we were here, what our future will hold, and how special our connection to each other really is...even though she can't find it right now.

I have re-read it this morning to make sure it really is what I want to do and say....and I really believe it is. I can't help but cry as I re-read my own letter.....I know it will evoke some tears from her. I still sense a little bit of indecision on her part whether or not we should be through....I think she knows all that we DO still have. But, she also is convinced that she needs to pursue her feelings for OM. I just thought that this might be an opportunity to really tug at her heart strings and put even more doubt into her heart and her cloudy mind.

I'm curious as to your thoughts on this. I'm know I'm not supposed to talk about relationships right now....but this really feels like an opportunity that I have to take. Depending on her response to this, I'm ready to back off for a while and let the process work. At least I'll know that this powerful, emotional, seed is planted.

I think I've made the decision finally to expose to her principal and assistant principal at work....they both attended our wedding and one even helped as our photographer. This is a difficult step for me as I just don't know how it will turn out....but I know you guys are right and trust what you tell me....what DO I have to lose, right? Her emotions are on the run right now as she's really been hurt by having family members tell her she's no longer welcomed and her finiding out that I finally talked to a co-worker of hers. (btw, she told me yesterday she talked that this girl and W is no longer mad at me for telling her....I'm sure W gave her side of the story and convinced this girl....but at least there's more pressure and more doubt).

So, just thought I'd throw that out there...I hope this doesn't backfire but I don't think it will. So far the few times that W has read something I've written (a letter 1-1/2 weeks into this and a list of things I worte that I admired about her which she stumbled across b/c it was left on my desk at home)...she's responded kindly to both and it sounded like they make her "feel". We'll see how this goes and then move on to the next step.

Thanks for reading.
ILA

Why is it that every time I am alone and thinking about things, I start to get my hopes up...then every time I talk to my W I feel like all is lost? Is this typical? I had the W on the phone yesterday evening for a minute and then she cut me off and said she had to go b/c she was meeting OM for dinner and she didn't think she should be on the phone w/ me when he arrived.... of all things!

This morning she called back to ask if I was ok b/c she was having doubts if she should have said that to me. I couldn't understand why she cared enough to call and ask. But then it donned on me that she thinks I've given up and am willing to quit...and we are going to be friends still. She was just worried about our friendship continuing....eatin' her cake.

So, after some debate I called her this afternoon and told her I had to make sure we were on the same page. I said that although I left Sunday night with the feeling that it was all over and I know I left her w/ that impression too....that I'd come to a different conclusion since then. I said there is something so deep inside me that makes me know that we will work things out that I would never give up. I also wanted to let her know that I didn't condone her relationship with OM and I hoped she knew that.

I told her that no matter how she really felt, OM was holding her back from trying to work on our M. She said it didn't matter...even if he wasn't around she still wouldn't want to work on us. She insists that she's simply made up her mind. So I told her that I just disagreed with her and that all we had to do was put forth the effort and everything could be so much better than we ever thought. She just insists that she's so done with me.

God it is so hard to hear her continue to deny everything we ever had....just 6 months after we got married. So I told her I sent her a letter and asked her to take it to heart. She said she would. That was it.

I know she's starting to doubt whether it's right to continue with OM right now. With more family pressure, she's leaning more towards just taking time away from everything and everybody for a while....but she just won't give me a second thought. I said I can't just understand how she could check out completely without trying....she claims a lot of it is due to how I"ve handled this whole situation." When you hear that it scares you to keep exposing.

But, I'll keep exposing and keep fighting. Looks like no quick fix so I guess I'll plan A to the best of my ability for a while.

ILA,

No more writing long letters. It will only hurt your situation. Nothing will help your situation except getting NC w/ OM established and some well executed plan A. Here are the do's and don'ts of plan A.

Do's
1. Act Happy
2. Get a life (new activities, etc.)
3. repeat over and over..."I will make it"
4. Actively LISTEN....keep conversations at "to the point...small talk" ...don't blow it up beyond the waywards current comfort zone
5. Tend to Agree (Thank you for your truthfulness, It seems that way, you have a point)
6. Expand your social relationships (Being especially aware of your own vulnerability and keeping sharing and time with opposite sex relationships to an absolute minimum)
7. Get sexy (gym, new clothes, etc)
8. Focus on your strengths and Positives...don't put yourself down verbally or constantly go over what you did wrong
9. Accept Uncertainty (Do your best today and let God take care of tommorrow)

DON'Ts

1. Repeatedly say "I love you"
2. Ask questions that don't have answers yet
3. Criticize, complain, whine or nag
4. Say, "I've changed"....allow the wayward spouse to simply judge your actions
5. Argue, Reason or Plead
6. Don't get family or friends overly involved in recovery (notice I said "in recovery", EXPOSURE to bust up an active affair IS ESSENTIAL and EXPOSURE to the OP's spouse is an absolute MUST)
7. Act helpless or depressed
8. Discuss morality, invoke God or Dr. Laura type babble
9. Suggest marital counseling (must be the waywards idea)
10. Tell them continually "we need to work on the relationship"
11. GIVE UP

I understand...it's just so hard. With W not living at home it makes it so difficult. I can't keep tabs on what she's doing and I know she's pretty much living her life with OM and I'm out of the picture. I already feel fully divorced.

If I talk to her and try to make small talk and not discuss issues, I feel like she thinks I'm accepting the situation and accepting that we are through.

I guess it's all about faith...plan A, expose, and hope for the best, huh?

Thanks

If you are executing a good plan A, there's no need to hope for the best. You will have a plan for the best. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

After speaking yesterday to my W and telling her I wanted to make sure we are on the same page (i.e. I was not accepting the finality of our situation and insisted that we would work this out eventually), I called her this morning to give her the name of a book that was recommended by our MC (in the one and only trip we made). W had said she wanted to read it (it's about her daddy issues), so I told her I'd get the name again.

That's all the call was about and really all we discussed other than her doctor appt. for her shoulder surgery she was at. But, she sounded so unhappy and distant again. Before my talk yesterday she was happy.

I guess my question is this: Everytime she knows that I'm battling for her and trying to fix things....she barely wants to talk to me and when she does she's in this sullen mood to where she'll hardly converse with me at all. Everytime she sits me down and tells me things are absolutely though and she thinks she's convinced me of such...then she's willing to call and talk and she's happy-go-lucky because she thinks we are now conversing as "just friends".

Only when she really gets pressured does she want to sit down and talk (she has only led the discussion 3 times in 5 weeks...when she first dropped the bombshell on me that she wasn't in love anymore and she wanted out, when I confronted her on the EA, and after she had a few key family members alienate her for what she was doing) Each time she felt the need to sit me down and "convince" me that things never will have a chance and that she wants absolutely nothing to do with even trying.

It's almost like confession for her. She really tells me from her heart that it's over, she cries a little, then she feels like she's accomplished her goal and can move ahead.

I assume this is all normal? Is this the "have your cake and eat it too" scenario that she's working on?

It's sure feels nicer to have her happy and willing to talk instead of being distant and scornful, but I assume distant and scornful is where I have to keep her is it not?

Thanks
ILA