Yeah, SD, that's where I'm conflicted. Right now WW is still so angry about the exposure to her work that I think she does intend to file for D. She really has come to believe that I'm psychotic and won't let go so she has no other choice in the matter than to do the D. Who knows, maybe with a couple of days she will cool off?

When she gave me the break up speach 1-1/2 weeks ago and broke my will for a day, she wasn't talking about D...it was more about how can we keep our house, amicably split things up, etc. That is the easy way out. I realize that's b/c she was eating her cake at that point.....but it almost seems like I need to find a happy medium between her being happy and content enough to not push things to drastic measures, but at the same time she has to know I mean business and am not just OK with things. But, maybe straddling the fence doesn't do any good either? I probably need to put my foot down.....but I also need a chance to establish a good plan A too. Looks like it might just have to come down to D or at least Separation at this point.....then at least that would give me some time to do a plan A while in the waiting period before going dark.

Well, just talked to the WW. She's going to come by Sunday afternoon to get some clothes and stuff. I suggested she just stay the night so we can discuss whatever we need to discuss, maybe have dinner, etc. She pretty much declined.

Get this...she "doesn't feel comfortable" around me right now....still convinced that I might not be sane! She's got all her friends at school filling her head with "stalker" talk b/c I went to confront her principal. This couldn't be more like high school b.s. if I ever saw it.

Anyway, I've got to bone up on MY PLAN so hopefully I can get over that hurdle on Sunday. Man this sucks. I'll be honest, my LB is really starting to get drained with all the hurtful things my WW keeps saying. I will always love her and cherish her, but it sure gets tougher and tougher to understand why!

ILA...they get over the anger. It's normally gone in a week or two.

The emotional detachment of which I keep speaking is what keeps the stinging words from a WW from getting to you.

Think of her as a person who has been kidnapped, experienced a brain transplant, and been returned to you. She looks the same, but she's an entirely different person. This is the standard transformation a wayward goes through. Once you "get" that, the emotional detachment becomes routine.

Things that once made you mad can possibly make you laugh once you assume the emotionally detached level.

Work on it. Work on yourself, Plan A, and have faith this will all work.

Thanks SD....I can feel myself getting closer and closer to the detachment. At least it's getting easier to do. I think I'm getting to a place where maybe I can start into a good plan A. I just hope she doesn't push for a D too soon so I have a legitimate chance to do it right.

I have faith she will come around. The only problem is her past history says she never will go back to me....even if she does fix herself. I guess we'll see about that. I know that all of her friends and family are in favor of her coming back to me so maybe that will help.

Questions with plan A:

I haven't even had a chance to plan A yet because all WW has done is call me to b*tch about my exposure. She hasn't lived at home since a week before the EA and PA were discovered. Now she claims she isn't "comfortable" being around me because she's scared by some of the things I've done recently (like exposure to her work...thinks I'm psycho)

Right now I never see her and only talk to her when she wants to call and complain. I hate leaving her alone with this crazy view of me locked in her brain.

Is it even possible to do a proper plan A like this? I know plan A is about ME, not her noticing me.......but it sure seems like it would be easier if she was around and if she had more of a positive view of me right now.

Will her perception of me change (i.e. is this just anger from exposure) in time so that she can allow herself to remember the real me and what she's leaving behind??? It feels like I'll never get through to her at this point.

Let her anger cool down for a week or two, and be totally non-confrontational, nor defensive when she makes her foggy remarks.

Remember this: No ONE thing you do makes any difference in Plan A. It's ALL you do over an extended period (2-3 months) that makes ALL the difference.

You must give unconditionally during this time, expecting absolutely NOTHING in return. Zero, zip, nada.

As things calm down, and they will, even doing Plan A from a distance WILL make a difference. While she's away from you it FORCES the OM to meet all her needs. That will put pressure on the OM, and their sordid A. That's when she will start to make excuses to "come over" so she can get her "fix" of you. That fix must be Plan A perfect.

The better you look, and when the walls of the A start to crumble, all of which will take place slowly and over a period of time, is when she'll get a glimpse through the fog of what she's giving up. That's the dose of reality you are looking for.

Do not let her bait you into any Love Busters. Stay non-confrontational. Do the YOU part of Plan A, and make it your lifestyle.

Don't hang on every little thing she does or says, because you have no control over her. Control what you can...YOU!

Thanks, that all makes perfect sense. I have accepted these facts that you mention (whereas the first couple weeks I thought I could fix everything). I am committed to putting on the happy face and work MY plan, even in the face of poor feedback from WW.

I talked to her this afternoon as she wanted to confirm what time she could come over tomorrow to get some things(my mother's been in town and leaving tomorrow....WW didn't want to have to confront her!!). WW was out at the mall today with her sister (I think OM has his daughter this weekend) and seemed to be in good spirits. I'm hoping that some of the exposure anger has passed and we can have a good face to face tomorrow. It'll be the first time I've seen her in 2 weeks. I'll try to work my best plan A possible and hope we can avoid the D talk. If what she said on Tuesday is still in her head, then I'll be getting papers soon!

Thanks for the pep talk, I'll do my best!
ILA

Well, WW just left. First time I'd seen her in 2 weeks as she came by to pick up some things. She took a lot of clothes so I don't see her moving home anytime soon! As a matter of fact I asked her about that. She wanted to discuss options for our house, and I told her I would like her to consider moving home eventually so we didn't have to sell or rent it out....she said she sees no way that would be possible....especially since she'd still be seeing OM. "There's no way you could deal with that" and "I can't just be your roommate" were responses. There's still just no willingness for her to change things with the A.

Even though we aren't supposed to talk R....I couldn't avoid it altogether. I felt like I had some repair work to do. I can't plan A at all right now. She showed up with an attitude that she just didn't want to be friends, couldn't be around me...nothing at all (which I knew she'd come with). I felt I had to try and get her back to a level of comfort so we could at least start to converse. Right now I can't begin to meet ANY of her EN's b/c she just doesn't even want to be around me. Most of this is still a direct result of exposure anger.

I've read a lot of Pepperband's comments about plan A and so I know I need to start meeting her EN's for conversation and affection (which I think are the two biggest reasons I lost her) but when I try to talk to her, she feels pressured. Whatever I ask her about, she thinks it's all a ploy to "get her back"...even if it's innocent talk about something off the subject of US. I don't know what else to do to get her to talk to me and confide in me.

She tried to bring up the D. I did tell her that I really thought we should wait on D and/or thinking about selling our house (our biggest financial obstacle) b/c we just really didn't know where our emotions would be several months down the road. I explained that I understood she felt there was ZERO chance at US, but that it would be foolish to rush into the D. I basically said I just really don't want to discuss it yet. She ended up setting a deadline.....she said she'd give it 2 months then if nothing has changed she will file and figure out what to do with the house. I guess I at least got a 2 month stay of execution!!

Thus, I guess I've got 2 months to try and plan A my [censored] off. However, it might take that long just to get her back on friendly terms where I can start to meet her EN's!

After she left she did call back to apologize for "not being able to be friendly right now" and "she felt bad about that". Maybe that's a good sign, I don't know....at least a morsel of remorse for a change. Basically, she just admits that she can't let herself be friendly to me b/c it "gives me false hope" that something's going to work out b/w us. "And that's not healthy" is her reasoning. I tried to explain that there's a difference between: 1) accepting the situation for what it currently is and working to better myself and MY life (which I said I was doing and she acknowledges) and 2) holding out hope and putting effort towards saving our M. I tried to tell her that I WOULD have a great life one way or another, that I WOULD find another great person and WOULD have a great family....because I know I'm a good person, and now with what I've learned through this I'm going to be so much better. Then I said, "right now though, I still want that other person to be you because I love you and you alone". She agreed that I would do great in life, but probably didn't want to hear about it being with HER!

It just seems like such a fine line. If she thinks I'm harboring any hope of US then she doesn't want to communicate or be around me....thus I can't really meet EN's or plan A. If I tell her I give up then I could at least start to meet her EN's as a friend again....but I can't just do that right?

How do I approach my WW when she just won't even let me get close to her emotions? As long as I show any hope in US....she's going to keep me at a distance. I've got 2 months till DIV-day....how can I properly plan A like this when she won't let me through this wall? I sure don't think I can plan B without laying that plan A foundation. Help me vets!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

You live your life well. You make those changes in you that are part of Plan A and keep them in place. You remain non-confrontational, but you protect your assets.

As I stated in an earlier post, this forces the OM to meet all her needs, which he can't do. She will be keeping tabs on you and your progress through mutual friends, and a "need" to contact you on a variety of issues, which is an excuse to get her fix....of you.

ILA, you must be patient, and let this play out. Exposure is done, and your WW has made her choice. Give her some time to see how her choice is working out, and in the mean time use your resources to become the very best H you can be.

Spend some energy working on your house. Especially if your W wanted a room painted or some projects done, work on those first. Fill her EN's from afar. Keep the house neat, tidy and smelling like you. If she's "coming over to pick something up" prepare a meal you know she likes and just have enough "extra" for her to partake.

Be creative, be patient, be positive, and spend the time she is away with the OM in positive ways. She will notice!

Thanks, SD....I have been doing some of the things you mentioned. I've been keeping the house nice, done some things to tidy up. I've lost 32 lbs. in 6 1/2 weeks (which isn't healthy weightloss...but I've got a trainer and in the gym so it's not all that bad either). I feel good about myself and think I'm looking, dare I say "sexy" again?? Actually weigh less now than I did for our wedding so I know she likes that. I'm still very anxious and depressed though obviously. I need to see someone about that....it's really affecting my work and my life in general. I try to show my WW that I'm doing fine and I think she sees that. She does compliment me on how I look and thanks me for certain things I've done around the house.

Does any of that really get through to her? She acknowledges it but then basically says it's too little too late again. She just flat out believes that there is no going back.....that's her history and her pattern too unfortunately so I tend to believe her. I know her family pretty much believes her b/c they've seen it happen again and again.

I sure don't see anything changing in just 2 months time. It really looks like the D will happen at this point. I've got 8 months until it would be complete, but in the meantime we'll be selling or renting the house, moving to new apartments, etc. Once that ball starts rolling I don't know if it can be turned around.

Funny you mentioned painting a room or something around the house. There are a couple of tasks like that I've been saving hoping I can convince her to come home on a weekend and help me do it. Painting our bedroom is one of them. We've always enjoyed doing things like that together so I figured that my be a big plan-A opportunity......but I don't know if she'll come and join in or if I just need to do it myself.

I wish I could get her into counseling to address some of her personal issues. She knows she has them, but thinks she's in control of them too....just doesn't seem to want help right now...in true addict fashion. I almost feel like even if A ends, she won't come back to me until she addresses these other issues. They will continue to hold her back just like they have in the past.

Sucks....2 months just isn't enough time for all of this to happen! I'll keep trying my best at plan A from afar. Sounds like she MIGHT be opening up a little bit today in regard to a willingness to communicate a little more. I think last night was successful in that I got her over the psycho image she had of me after exposure to her work! I followed it with an email this morning of WHY I haven't given up on the marriage and WHY I know it can work out.......but also made it clear that I understand the REALITY of the situation right now and that I can't change anything with US....only she can. All I can do is make ME better. I think that will help get her to open up to me at least. We'll see.

Thanks for the help guys......keep it coming <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

ILA wrote: " I need to see someone about that....it's really affecting my work and my life in general."

See your personal physician and ask about some anti-depressive medication. It will keep you grounded. Some get along ok, others hate 'em and give 'em up almost immediately. It may keep you calm enough to do your work.


ILA wrote: "She does compliment me on how I look and thanks me for certain things I've done around the house. Does any of that really get through to her?"

I'll repeat myself..."No ONE thing you do will make ANY difference in your situation. EVERYTHING you do CONSISTANTLY over a 2-3 month period of time will make ALL the difference!!! Got it? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


ILA wrote: "I almost feel like even if A ends, she won't come back to me until she addresses these other issues."

And you are going to stop "hearing" the fog talk when? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


ILA wrote: "Sucks....2 months just isn't enough time for all of this to happen!"

And what "hasn't" happened so far, that we told you "would" happen? Have you no faith? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


ILA wrote: "Funny you mentioned painting a room or something around the house. There are a couple of tasks like that I've been saving hoping I can convince her to come home on a weekend and help me do it. Painting our bedroom is one of them."

Nope, she is not invited, nor will you accept her help. This is YOUR project, something that will say to WW..."ILA is strong, confident, looking good, non-confrontational....and...it appears he "might" be getting along just fine without me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Maybe OM is not too good by comparison after all? Maybe ILA really loves me, and I am making a HUGE mistake? Maybe I should think this through a bit more before I give up such an outstanding man, as ILA obviously is? Man, I'm confused" Besides, you need something to do with all the nervous energy all this chaos creates. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Settle in for a long ride, ILA. This is going to be your life for the next few months. And if all this is successful, then we work on all the perils of recovery. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Taint none of it easy...

Well, got some bad news today. I emailed OMW just to check in and see how she was doing. She emailed me back and said she'd decided to give up and move on. This is odd b/c just a week and a half ago she told me she was committed to doing everything to save her marriage.

My WW told me last night that OMW actually called Dr. Phil show. OMW said she had a long talk with OM a few days ago and was convinced that OM was through and really didn't want to be with her any more (I'm sure that long talk was spurred on by the Dr. Phil call!)

This sounds exactly like what WW has done to me. As soon as I get too close she has to give me the 'break up' speach again.....and it usually is very convincing and a real downer. I've been close to giving up twice now too, but after about 24 hours my mind comes around again and I find renewed hope. I think the same thing just happened to her. But, she's been dealing with this longer so maybe she really is done trying?

This makes me feel bad, because I thought she was going to be my biggest ally. I really thought that the A would die b/c OM would be drawn back to his wife and child. Now it doesn't look like that will happen. He's going to get his cake and eat it too b/c OMW will still be his friend....for the kid's sake.....she's told me that.

Is there anything I can do in light of finding out this news? It seems like this just paves the way for an easier road to continue the A now that OMW has thrown in the towel. I don't know, maybe the quicker they have at it, the quicker the A will run its course and die???

At least my WW sounded more cheerful in the VM's we traded today....never actually spoke to her though. Maybe I was somewhat successful in bringing her mood back a bit to where I can do a successful plan A.

Have you let OM's W know about this website?

ILA, getting into your situation late due to my own mess, but I think our situations have a lot of similarities.

I wa also going to ask about the OMW knowing about this site? I can't think of any negatives from that. Her knowledge, support, assistance. Don't forget- she is riding the rollercoaster as well, so don't let a hasty communication with you decide her intent.

It is a famous battle tactic to use the "horns of the bull". You two could attack the enemy with both of you being an individual horn, and attacking a common enemy from both sides. Crazy analogy, but accurate I suppose. Plus, the communication, mutual support, and cooperative intelligence gathering may be helpful.

Good luck

I Did tell OMW about this site the same day I exposed to her. I talked to her a week and a half ago for 2 1/2 hours! and she mentioned she'd checked it out but hadn't been on chat boards....I suggest she do it, but I doubt she has.

I agree she's on the roller coaster and OM has just broken her spirit, but who knows if she'll come back around. OMW was the one who initially sounded the alarm in their M and they've been unhappy for a long time. Of course the EA between OM and my WW was likely going on for a lot of that time and causing problems in their M as well (like it was to mine, even though I didn't realize it). I wish OMW would get back up on the horse and keep pushing, but something tells me she may really be fed up. I'd like to talk to her about plan B, but with a child and likely equal custody, I don't think she could or would do a good plan B. I don't know if I can interfere too much with her???

As for me, talked to WW at noon and she was in a real good mood. It lifts my spirits to hear that, even though I know it's not because of US....it's still nice to hear after all the venom recently.

I guess I accomplished my goal over the last 2 days.......to get her to a state of mind where we could be civil and converse. I need to try and meet her EN's and do a good plan A, but there was no chance of that as angry as she's been recently.

I feel like I did some real good exposure, pissed WW off real good with it, now almost feel like I have to back track just a hair to get her feeling comfortable enough where I can plan A and have good, friendly conversation with her. Is this the wrong approach????

Before she was only happy for 2 days....both times that she thought she'd convinced me to give up. As soon as I explained I wasn't giving up, she got very distant again.

In order to set up a proper plan A, I wanted to draw her out of her shell a bit but didn't want her to get the wrong idea either.

I feel like I've done that better this time. I told her I understand the reality of the current situation, not that I'm ok with it or like it. I then explained that she needs to know I'm NOT giving up hope or my efforts though. I wanted her to be clear about that.

I explained WHY I'm maintaining hope and why we CAN work things out.....not that we WILL, but that we CAN. It seems like she's accepted that now, whereas before she wouldn't. The fact that she sounds happier now makes me wonder though.....does she think she's finally 'winning'??? OMW just gave up and I know OM has told WW of this. Now that I've given in just a bit....is this sending the wrong message???

I know I HAVE to do a good plan A.....and it seems like I HAVE to have my WW receptive to being friendly and ok with spending some time together and holding good converstaion....that's the only way to meet EN's right? I don't want her to get the wrong impression though either.

Am I rambling??? Do these questions make sense???

Thanks - ILA

P.S. WW mentioned today that she was to meet with advisor from her Aunt's church again today or tomorrow. Maybe that helps a little too....who knows. Also, the part of WW's family that has COMPLETELY cut her off is really bothering WW....she's dropped several snippits about it recently so I know it's weighing on her.

Well, don't know when I'll talk to WW next...I plan on letting her call me. She talked like she wanted to get together next week to go over some finances. Even though I'd told her I don't want to discuss D (and she put a 2-month moratorium on that), splitting up some of our bills would be a good idea in my mind. I figure that making her pay her own bills might put some more pressure on her. Is that appropriate for plan A? She also 'wants her paycheck' so that's part of it. Right now it gets direct deposited to our joint acct. and she knows we need all of OUR money to get by this month so maybe she'll realize just how little money she actually has if we split some things up. Anyway, that may be the next time I see her.

My biggest patriot right now is WW's brother (not real brother, but family she grew up with....they are VERY close). He's (and the rest of his family) cut her off almost completely and I know this really bother's WW. Brother also just broke up with his girlfriend of 4 years and although it wasn't an affair situation as much....still a lot of similarities between the way FGF is acting and my WW.

Apparently my WW and his FGF talked yesterday and word got back to him. He says my WW only told her side of the story and that the two women agreed on what they were doing......great, now WW has another foggy head to support her!!

I'm happy WW is in a better mood and we can be civil, but it seems like it's b/c she feels less pressure from me now......I don't know if this is where I need to be.

Funny story, WW's brother told me he went to FGF's place to drop off mail. He was dressed to kill and going out with friends (including FGF's sister). FGF came out in pajamas and looked really depressed when seeing how good he looked. I told him 'great job'.....you are a plan A expert and don't even realize it!

Anyway, I wish I could see results, but know not to expect them. I keep trying to come up with plan A ideas but when you never see WW it seems difficult to execute. I feel like she's just counting the days until she files for D in 2 months.

Getting the finances in order is priority one, along with Plan A. You may need an attorney to keep her from shorting the marital budget of sufficient funds to keep the household afloat.

You really need a plan for how to protect your assets. If she takes her check and her and OM go on a cruise, and you are short on household budget, it will not be good for either of you.

The two months moratorium is Fog talk. She doesn't "really" want to give up her marriage, but the addiction won't let her give up the OM. Mark that as a good sign.

If you can work the numbers on what the "marital household" needs in way of her paycheck, and she has only left what would be "disposable income", that will be a good dose of reality for her. I don't know if you can pull that off or not, or if a LSA would be in order. I never got to that point, so have no experience from which to advise.

You sound strong, and that's good. Don't fret the fact that you are not seeing her much, and continue to use that freedom from the chaos to formulate and work your plans.

You have this all down, now, so walk the walk!

Yeah, I keep thinking about what she said. She asked me what WE were going to do...I think that's also good. I told her that I thought our feelings changed a ton in 6mo. to go from the happiest day of our lives to where we are now....that our feelings might change a whole lot more in another 6 mo. I said I didn't even want to talk D, but she had to do what she had to do. That's when she said she'd give it 2 months. "and if nothing changes by then we need to file for D" or "if you want to contest it, then fine, but I'm not going to put it off any longer". I felt good about it simply b/c she went from wanting D immediately to waiting 2 mths. But, she's foggy so I should probably quit trying to figure out what she's thinking.


That's my plan. She's going to find out she doesn't have much left....but she's also holding out until we get tax return in March.


I was sort of thinking I could plan A the best I can for 2 mths. then if she hasn't woken up yet (which I don't think she will by then) I could suggest LSA instead of D. Does that make sense?

Caught up briefly on your sitch and what keeps jumping out at me is the E/N thing. Very hard to openly meet E/N's of a WW who is not fence sitting. WW usually do not fence sit as they cannot divide their loyalties as easily as many men can.

Meeting E/N's is a part of Plan A only as much as they will allow it, and it is not going to be an overt thing anyway, as they usually either feel too guilty to let you or are downright against it.

Just identify the areas where you feel you may have done better in this dept. If hers is conversation, be open to converstation when SHE persues conversation. Be open to affection when SHE persues.

Plan A is really about being a lighthouse and demonstrating changes that would make you the more desirable spouse (as much as you can demonstrate without being pushy), and most of all AVOIDING LB's (angry outbursts, disrespectful judgements, relationship talk is normally an LB to a wayward, etc). Try to check out Ark's "Light House" thread...very good stuff in there.

Also ILA, you have about three to six months of Plan A time, so learn above all else PATIENCE. Settle in and concentrate on the areas where you have control, as Shattered Dreams is going over with you).

Josie made some really good points about ENs and LBs, ILA.

Your WW is not going to gracefully allow you to Plan A her. She will see your positive changes even if she doesn't comment on it. Don't tell her all the ways you're changing and growing...your words probably don't mean any more to her right now than her words mean to you. A calm and strong demeanor will speak louder anyway.

Don't fret so much about "coming up with Plan A ideas". Just continue to work on making yourself as confident, appealing, and healthy a man (inside and out) as you can be. Don't worry about the whole 2 months thing...it may or may not mean anything. And you shouldn't live your life as a slave to HER timetable.

Everyone is SO right -- you're just going to have to be patient now. But, that doesn't mean sitting around waiting for an opportunity to "Plan A her"! Go out with some fun friends...get back into a hobby you've neglected...try out a cool new restaurant...just live your life, ILA. It will not only make you happier, it'll also make an impact on your FWW.

Continue to stay away from relationship talk. Like Josie said, it's very likely an LB to her.

Shattered Dreams is right that you need to get that financial stuff worked out. {I hope you're appreciating the great help you've been getting here! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />} This is an emotional situation, but there are some practical things you can do to limit the damage. Don't wait until the worst case scenario happens before you prepare for it!

You're doing fine, ILA. Just hang in there....

Lori