BTW, 2 long, thanks for all the great books....I'm sure I'll get to them. I've been living on the Harley books, this website, etc.....almost feel like I'm doing TOO much reading and it keeps me from 'letting go' like I should be???

"The Power of NOW" seems interesting. My WW and I are both pretty much agnostic, not really a huge believer in organized religion, but still have a spirtitual side. WW has started to see her Aunt's church advisor since the A and I know she's been wanting to reconnect to that spiritualism (I found some personal notes from a few months ago where she mentions it). I'll definitely have to check it out for me....and who knows, maybe she'll read it too...but I doubt it!

The first chapter of the Power of Now is online here, if you're interested:

http://www.iloveulove.com/spirituality/pon/ponch1.htm

Another one that I found useful that I forgot 2 mention is "The Truth about Relationships" by Greg Baer (not Bear, the SciFi author!):

http://www.iloveulove.com/unconditlove/relationships.htm

These books are both somewhat esoteric, or seem that way, particularly when you're in the throes of dealing with an active affair. When I was, I found them rather refreshing - changing the subject so I could stop dwelling on it.

The Harleys ac2ally caution against "unconditional love", particularly when dealing with an affair. I think that the reason for this is largely because most people don't understand it and therefore misapply it, and let themselve get taken advantage of.

Your mileage may vary.

-ol' 2long

Well 2long, just ordered Power of Now....sounds good, right along the lines of what I and WW need to read. Thank you again.

Today's been really tough for whatever reason. I think it's just a lot of emotions, with putting down our cat, speaking to WW and getting a reassurance that we are total done, knowing what her exact plans have been the last 2 days with OM....etc.

I've been pretty worthless today. Just sat around and watched TV and got nothing accomplished. Definitely not a productive plan A day, that's for sure.

I really am trying to understand what I can do when WW is giving ME a plan B of her own? Are WW's usually that defiant and unwilling to communicate about anything? Doesn't even seem like she wants to "have her cake and eat it too" anymore....she just wants her new cake ONLY :P

I know I've got to quit REACTING...I'm just killing myself today. I'm sure it'll get better, but today's a tough one. Think I might go watch SB tomorrow with SIL/BIL or else MIL and WW's grandma. I need to be around somebody supportive....sitting around alone today blows!

Thanks for the support everyone.

It's much easier to use your time and energy on some projects around the house, and all that fits into your plan.

ILA,

On the MB weekend in a couple of months, not only a waste of time but the same as relationship talk. She is trying to get away from you, not build a marriage, so trying to get her to a marriage building weekend would be tantamount to love busting.

What I meant about covert is that you have to appeal to her feelings, not her intellect by asking her to do something to try to regain her marital feelings towards you.

Now is affair busting time, marriage building time comes later. However, with her leaving as she did and being so decisive on it as well...

ILA, I know this is not what you want to hear, but I think you should really try to put your pain aside for a moment and really think about if this is what you want to do. Is this really what you want to do, get her back? With no kids, I don't know that I would.

You said this -



Past behavior is a very good indicator of future behavior...her track record isn't so hot. She can change of course, but that is not in your control.

And ILA, if you want children some day, please think about this. It may be a far wiser choice to find a woman who will be a good mother to your future children, and who places more value on marriage, then to try a get this one back. She's not a good bet. I mean she is willing to play house with a little girls father, a little girl whose mom and family is being destroyed right now, destroyed by her.

I don't want to hurt you further than you already are, and I value marriage above all else...but sometimes you have to look to making hard choices so that you can have a good solid marriage in the future.

JJ, very poinient comments. I hear them and understand them. There are times that I ask myself those questions, but I quickly reconsider for some reason.

I'm pretty sure that the reason I can't let go and can't accept her behavior as being real is that I'm extremely confident that this is something beyond her immediate control.

WW has past issues from her childhood....father issues. She's had to live her life being her own daddy and that's why she's always been with a man...never ever on her own. Every time a relationship starts to struggle a little bit and/or reaches a milestone of committment, she gets scared. Then she loses her self esteem and she starts to look for ways to convince herself that she's going to be hurt again by the man in her life.

So, she finally puts up a wall and runs to someone new to start over. Our MC tells me this part of it is an addiction (which she specializes in) to norepanephrin (sp?)(chemical in the brain that causes gambling, affairs, etc....the need for the rush of excitement and newness....things that give you the short term high). I understand it b/c I used to have a big gambling problem and have gone through it. This is how she immediately tries to regain her self esteem and find happiness, by running to her "drug" of choice when things in her relationship start to go South.

When I say it's her pattern...this is what I mean. All of her family see it as being the same thing she's done before, too. Part of what she does is put up this wall and never look back.....which is what I continually hear over and over...."I will never have the same feelings for you that I used to"

I guess the reason I don't give up on her is b/c I feel like she's 'sick' and I love her and I want to help her. What would you do if your loved one was diagnosed with another serious ailment? That's how I feel. For the first time, I've got some key members of her family wanting to stand up to her and get her to get help too. Some just throw up their hands and say "that's just how she is" and "there's nothing we can do to tell her differently".....but a few are finally fighting with me to convince her to get help. They know that I'm the best thing for her and this is her chance at happiness in life.

I know the only way our M stands a chance is to be rid of the OM. Given her M.O., I don't think that will happen on it's own or by just letting the A run it's course. It would eventually but it might take years of her holding on to OM again. I'm starting to think that the typical "affair dies a natural death in 6 mths." isn't going to happen in this case.

I think the only way our M stands a chance is to get WW to seek help. IF she will start to address her father and addiction issues, then we have hope. Only IF she is willing to do that will she be willing to Look Back to our M. I think they go hand in hand...there's two distinct patterns that need to change here and I think if one changes (her issues), the other might as well (willingness to go back and work on M). She is so defiant about US never having a future b/c that's what she does. She's never looked back and tried to go back and work on problems....she just runs to the next set of them. Everyone has always let her get away with it too. No man has ever stood up to fight for her before....but she's never known one like me.

I know this is a VERY hard road and the chances are slim. But the fact that somebody is finally fighting for her (some of her family and more importantly me) is what gives me hope that she can get the help she needs and end this destructive cycle once and for all. She'll never have a happy productive life until she does.

I love her and I want to be the person who helps her correct this. There is not a doubt in my mind how great we can be....we've seen it before and with the tools and knowledge we have now, the sky's the limit.

Actually JJ, WW is incredible with children...probably the thing that impresses me the most about her. I just can't put into words how much I love watching her with kids. Everyone realizes the same thing. But when she's in THIS state, she's different and she doesn't think about how she's hurting OM's little girl....she's not herself right now.

I've intercepted text messages from OM telling WW that's what he loves about her too. It makes me think that OM is so in love with her b/c he's simply looking for a good mother for his child to replace OMW. I think that is what drives his lust for her. At the same time, I think WW is looking for a new "daddy". The fact that she sees how much OM loves his daughter only confirms in her mind that he is a good "daddy".....to his daughter and subconciously to my WW. That's just a theory, but it makes sense to me.

Anyway, JJ, I KNOW I want to be with my W and it's b/c I've seen our potential. We truly are GREAT together. I feel like this is all a result of problems my W has that are re-surfacing again. If I knew for sure that she just flat out loved this other guy and they WERE soul mates and she just doesn't love me at all.......well, then it would be a different story. My WW tells me that now, but I'm 95% sure it's fog speak and past problems that are driving it all.

I can't think of a single woman in my life...girlfriends, freinds, co-workers....anyone...that I can see myself spending my life with. There's only 1 and that's my W.

Someday that love might begin to fade, and I guess that's when I know I'm done....but right now I want to love her and protect her and help her right our ship so we can fix these evil problems that torment her and we can live the life together that we are meant to. NOBODY will EVER love her more than I do. That is the one thing I can assure her of and I guess that's what I hope she comes to realize.

So, what do you think JJ.......am I in denial and just screwed up here.....in my own fog? Or is these feelings reason enough to persevere?

Thanks for the input and great thoughts.
ILA

Considering everything I just mentioned in my last post....I'm assuming there's no way for ME to suggest any counseling for WW is there?

From what I've learned, that will simply be a HUGE LB right? (disrespectful judgements). I think that is the only way our M has a chance is to get her into IC for her problems.....but it can't come from me can it?

I hope pressure from family can make it happen....seems like my only chance right now, honestly. This is an addiction though, and I know she can only get help when SHE wants to. I feel like we need to stage an intervention!!

When she comes to you and asks what she can do to to regain entry into your life, you can suggest couseling, and she may even be open to it because she has no choice, and the leverage she needs is there (the possibility of loosing you).

Before that point, it seems highly unlikely that she thinks she needs counseling. Seems like in her world, what she needs when things go stale or the waters get rough, is a new man.

I actually counseled with Steve Harley about my ex, and he told me that some people are unable to look within, so anytime they are put in a situation that becomes uncomfortable for them, a sitch that would require uncomfortableness leading to inner change, they leave the relationship.

It wouldn't surprise me that if the OM started to not meet all her needs, that she would want to hook up with you again, on the side.

If this happens, DON"T DO IT. Refuse to play that game, show her what a principled man that values marriage looks like, and maybe, just maybe she will want to become someone worthy of your respect.

Do you understand what I am saying? This is what I mean by playing to her feelings not her logic at this time.

She'll in all likelihood be back when she needs a shoulder because the OM is having problems with the sitch, with what he has done to his wife and child.

Or she may never be back at all.

Graycloud posted something quite profound the other day, and I am going to go find it for you and post here.

Graycloud did not regain his marriage, mind you, but he did regain himself. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

This was posted on Jamesus's thread.

In regards to your WW -

One thing that I have learned, ILA, with people who look for love outside of themselves, is that given the circumstances needed for them to do what is right, to do what is esteemable, to do what feels uncomfortable...gives them this inner love necessary to have as well as be in a lifetime marriage.

And while in Plan A, as you are becomming a very attractive alternative to the chaos of an affair, you become a person that demands this of another person by being this kind of person yourself.

This is what I learned after a few failed R's and my own habit of viewing the grass as greener on the other side. It did take someone (including my own sister) to tell me that how I was acting in regards to my R's was disgusting, immature behavior.

Plan A is kind of like this sentiment or wording in action. YOU be the person you would like the WS to be. YOU lead by example...and in "be the lighthouse" kind of way.

I can trust you on this. I know that is likely what it will take.....either way. I sense that I will eventually be able to emotionally separate from her. Every day I seem to come closer to realizing this. I don't know that it will happen for a while though....one of my vices is how tightly I hold on to things. I just can't let things go....so in that way, you're absolutely right in that "letting go" is a huge step for my personal recovery as well.


Maybe WW's Aunt (whom she's living with now and has in the past during tough times) is on to something. Aunt is pushing spiritual counseling through Aunt's church and she's told me that she thinks that this will eventually have a profound effect on WW. It sure goes along the same lines as what you're quoting here.


I am fortuante here....while ALL family and friends aren't telling WW this.....a few key one's are. The 2 people in WW's life that had the most parental influence on W (not her real parents by the way), her Aunt and "other mother" she lived with during H.S. when her real parents moved away for awhile (long story!)......they are both making it VERY clear that she's doing the wrong thing and following her old patterns again. If I have any hope of getting her into counseling and ultimately saving our M....I think it will be b/c of these 2 magnificent ladies.


Truly words to live by right here. I will definitely keep this as my mantra!

You're awesome, JJ. (and everyone else too, of course!!) Thank you, thank you.
ILA

IYHO, do you think that family members pushing her towards counseling will have a negative effect? I understand why I can't suggest it.....but what about other people?


The intriguing thing about WW is she knows much of this. She's been through counseling in the past when she was younger...much of it had to do with her alcoholic step father...but she does realize and admits to having some "issues" still. The 1 trip I got her to our MC right before d-day....our MC really broke thru to her in regard to WW's father. WW admitted that she was very impressed by MC and might want to see her on IC. I still hope she will do this at urging of Aunt.

The fact that WW knows she has issues and repeating patterns in her relationships....but doesn't want to get help....that's what proves to me that this is an addictive behavior as well. I knew for a long time that I was addicted to gambling....but that still wasn't enough for me to go get help. Only at the thought of my W not marrying me did I chose to get help........look where that got me !! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />


That actually came up last Sunday when I mentioned us trying to spend a little more time together and being able to communicate more. She told me "I can't be friends with somebody who won't give up on our relationship. I can't hang out with somebody who still wants to have sex with me"....I pretty much responded out of desparation "believe me, I love you but I couldn't have sex with you right now if I wanted to....not after what I've experienced". She baited me into that one.....but at least she heard that I wasn't hopelessly pining over her (even though I sort of am!). Who knows how that response registered in her cloudy brain! Anyway, I always wondered how I'd react if that day came (though it seems miles away). I really don't think I can say just how I'd react until I was in that situation.

Oh, man. This is so frustrating! WW had called yesterday and left VM that she needed to take out some money from our account to pay cell phone bill and have some spending money. I didn't get back to her yesterday but saw she took out money anyway.....at least she called which is what I'd asked her to do.

She just left another VM a while ago and I called her back. We chatted about a little stuff, I was trying to keep it positive and light convo. Then she mentioned she was going to have to get a new car soon as her's is about dead. Then she mentioned our house which is our one huge problem if it comes to D. We started in about the house and she's pretty much telling me we don't have any option but to sell it for a loss (short sell it to the bank, which is essentially foreclosure, and ruins our credit). That got me fired up. I was trying to stay calm but eventually said that "I wasn't going to have the bad decisions she made screw up the next 10 years of my life". Well, of course that got us to fighting about R stuff for a bit. I tried to back out of the conversation and tell her I didn't want to discuss it right now, but that just brought out threats from her about speeding up the D filing instead of waiting 2 months like she'd agreed.

I finally told her I had to go.

Then about 10 minutes later she called me back to say she didn't want to fight about things. I concurred and ended the conversation. She's got my emotions on a string, and I'm trying to end that but it's real hard.

Definitely not a good plan A move, but when talk comes to finances and our house....we HAVE to talk about this stuff soon. I don't know how to plan A but still be able to discuss this volatile stuff.

I'm just down right now, I guess that's why I'm posting. After last weekend I was really down thinking there was no hope...until I talked to one of her family members Sunday night who gave me renewed hope......but today is down again.....the rollercoaster.

WW couldn't be more convinced that everything is OK in her world. She acts very normal around anyone but me and the few people who defy her. She claims she's so at peace with what she's doing and knows it's the choice she wants.....it makes me wonder if that's not true.

I told her today that I was angry b/c she walked out on me....and I was having to go through all of this b/c of her decisions. She agreed it was her choice to leave but said it was my fault that we got to that point. Is she right? Is this all about OUR problems in our R? I can't believe it's not influenced completely by OM.....but I go back and forth. One day I believe one thing, the next day the other. That's the part of this that's the biggest rollercoaster for me.....what is the REAL cause of all this?

I have to believe that she's deep into the fog....but she acts so normal and happy around others that it makes me wonder if she really has just moved on with her life and that's that? She sounds so sure of herself that it really makes me doubt our chances.

That's all.......just venting. Thanks

I thought I might take the time to add some info. about my personal efforts in plan A. This is something I haven't discussed too much but is an important contributing factor to my story. After last night I realized that knowing this info. would probably aid in everyone being able to give me sound advice so I should probably discuss it a bit! (sorry if this gets too long)

I've mentioned very briefly a few times that I used to have a severe gambling addiction (sports). When W and I met 5-1/2 yrs. ago it was still real bad and stayed that way for several years....but we were just dating then and it was my money, not our money. But, I know it troubled her still. That's the only thing we have ever actually gotten into a fight about. W told me on several occassions that she could not deal with a husband w/ an addiction....she had to grow up with an alcoholic and drug addict for a step-father (this is the root of a LOT of our current issues I still believe). We only had 3 real FIGHTS in 5-1/2 years....something where she got so mad enough that she left for a night and went to stay w/ her sister....they were all 3 about gambling....2 early on in R and 1 right before W.

Anyway, when we got engaged about 2 years ago I made the decision to try and stop my gambling....but on my own. I'd never had ANY counseling before and was stubborn and simply didn't believe I needed help from a "whacko counselor". Plus I thought it would be more rewarding personally if I showed myself I could stop on my own.

So I tried that and I pretty much did great until about 2 months before our wedding. I placed one bet (secretively of course) thinking it was one and done and W would never know the difference....typical addict! Anyway, the 1 bet led to others and in 1 week I won $8000. I couldn't hide that much money so I came clean with W. We fought, she left for a day, talked to her sister, and then came home. Everything seemed to blow over just like it always had before. It seemed like it was accepted more by W because the money helped pay for our W !! She actually seemed less upset than she had in the past....but it still got through to me, nonetheless.

That was the last time I placed a sports bet. It was so close to my M that it finally struck me that this was real....I'd better stop or I'd lose the one thing in my life that really mattered. I made up my mind right then that that was it for the gambling. But, although I really made the personal committment, I never got professional help....and thus I didn't SHOW W my committment. However, the discussion hadn't come up since that time, from the last bet before we got married all the way to our break up speach seemingly out of the blue.....so I've been going along thinking everything was fine.

While my gambling seemed well under control, I did recently lose myself in fantasy sports and spent way too much time doing it. I knew W was frustrated by it....but she did it right along with me, joining the same leagues with me. We played for a little money within our friends' league, but I never saw it as gambling (although I realize now it is the same). To me it was the same rush. I still got obsessed by it, still let it control my life too much, still let it impact OUR lives...nothing like it used to, but it was still a sign to my W that something still wasn't right. That was one of the main reasons that WW said she decided she was through....and all the other reasons (laziness, unhappiness, getting out of shape, etc.) were directly related to it. Unfortunately, it seems to me that she was already so involved emotionally with OM that she was going along with my habits almost in an effort to sabotage our R and prove I wasn't worthy.

So, although I'd been successful in controlling my sports betting urges, I was trasnferring my addiction elsewhere. But, I never understood it was a problem b/c W didn't communicate it to me and I just thought we were so in love that everything would be fine.

When WW blames our break up on our problems of the past that have continued for a long time.....this is really the only thing I can point to. What sucks is, I just didn't know it was affecting us that much....W never mentioned it to me, just bottled up her feelings. That's my biggest gripe is that we never talked about it and I never got the chance to do something about it when I really UNDERSTOOD the issue the way I do now.

As soon as I got the breakup speach and this all started 8 weeks ago, it was a definite wake up call....then I finally UNDERSTOOD. I immediately started going to GA meetings. I went to 2 but didn't find a real good connection with the people there. I even told my WW that and explained I wanted to tell her the truth even though it might hurt my chances of us reconciling over this gambling issue.....I said I wasn't sure I needed the 12 steps. I just didn't really see myself in the same boat as these people....these people that have to go to a meeting every night just to get through their daily life. I just thought I had a much better handle on myself than that and I told her as much (which probably made her think I was still in denial).

Then, the d-day came along and I stopped going to meetings for several weeks while I've been trying to deal with all this.

But last night I went back for my 3rd meeting...and tried a different night. Instead of 7 people there were 30 and there were some younger people and sports bettors, like me. It was a much better group and dynamic and it inspired me.

I can honestly say the reason I went back to last night's meeting is b/c of what I've learned on here. I have NO urge to gamble any more....I really feel confident about having learned to control that habit. But I also know that once an addict, always an addict and it sure can't hurt to take precautions!

The real reason I decided to do this again is b/c of plan A. I want to take stock of my life, take a personal inventory and learn about ME. I'm not going back so much to kick a gambling habit (although that's part of it), but I'm going back to learn about ME. Find some spiritualism, understand why I do things the way I do, understand why I hold on so tightly to my WW (probably part of my obsessive/addictive behavior). It was real good last night and I'm excited about this.

My WW's comments to her mother keep echoing in my head....."why are men only willing to change after it's too late". Although I had decided to stop the gambling before our M and although we hadn't talked about it since then.....the damage was apparently done. And, as soon as I started to show some of the same traits recently....I guess that was the deal breaker. It's sad that something I thought I'd licked in order to make my life and my M better, still ends up being part of the downfall....simply b/c we didn't know how to properly communicate about it.

When my WW says it was all our problems that lead to this....this is what she MUST be talking about. In that regard, I can understand and accept what she's saying. Unfortunately, she claims that is THE problem and OM has NOTHING to do with any of this. But for her to turn her back the way she did without even trying to work together......I know that has to be because of the OM and A. It's pretty clear to me it's not just one or the other, but a combination of these issues.

Part of me hopes that REALLY committing to GA and attacking any remaining addiction issues in my life will be the one thing that shows my WW who I am and what I'm willing to do for myself and for US. Although it's a problem that contributed to our demise.....I can also see it as a BIG PLAN A OPPORTUNITY. But, WW's so far gone right now that it might not matter to her. However, IF the A ever ends, this is what she will HAVE to see out of me should we have any chance...I know that. I will also HAVE to see the same committment out of her at that point to beat her personal demons....but that's another story. I guess the only silver lining is that OM bets a lot on sports too and spends way too much time with his coaching and stuff....surely things that WW will get fed up with eventually....or so I hope!

But anyway, I've decided that this is the type of thing I need to do for ME, for a proper plan A, and for a healthy life and future....no matter how WW views it.

I have everyone here at MB to thank for getting me to understand this. So, for that I want to say a big THANK YOU. I feel like I'm finally starting to be able to take SOME steps towards personal recovery and doing plan A the right way. I just hope and pray it's not too late to save my M and the W I love so dearly.

ILA <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Yikes. Talk about a bad omen....I lost my wedding ring last night! I've lost so much weight it slides off my finger too easily now! I think it has to be somewhere around the house though, so maybe if I lose it and re-find it....that will be a good omen!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Actually, as far as omens and portents go, finding it will just negate the bad juju losing it incurred, so it will just be a great big cosmic wash.

Against my better judgment, I'm going to make one more attempt at some "tough love" ...

ILA, Have you noticed that recently you're basically having an online conversation with yourself???

No one is really responding to your thread. Why do you think that may be???

Ah, the question that has stumped folks for years <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

I know that some will give the simple answer "it's just fog-talk". And in some cases, it probably is.

But I suspect that in most cases, it is not as simple as a couple being in a perfect, wonderful, Disney marriage, and one day one spouse decides to have a roll in the hay with an OP. Rarely happens this way.

In most cases, one spouse is at least to some extent unhappy, which is what makes him/her somewhat more susceptible to an affair. And once the affair starts, fog rolls in, history gets rewritten, and it's no longer clear what is truth and what is fog speak. But, regardless, there is usually some basis for the WS's words that they "were not happy".

For that reason, I think it is futile to try to figure out "the cause" (neglected ENs or affair), and to work on the future rather than on the past. Hopefully by meeting ENs and with the affair ending, the marriage can be rebuilt. But in many cases, the affair is really just a symptom of the WS's deep resentments, which the WS never forgets. It is in those cases where we often see a WS go from OP to the next, or still deciding to divorce even if the affair ends, etc.

I wouldn't over burden my head with such questions, as there is never the "true" answer. Just focus on fixing things, and saving the marriage.

AGG

Probably b/c there's not much to talk about! I guess I feel like I'm in sort of a holding pattern right now. I'm trying to work on plan A from a distance and I don't really have much contact with WW. She has made it clear that she doesn't want to be around me or talk to me as long as I've got any thoughts of us saving our marriage.

I keep posting more as a log/journal for myself....plus it just seems to help to put your thoughts on paper sometimes(or computer in this case).

I can't say I'm expecting much feedback MyRev, I don't really have much to ask about except stupid thoughts about how I think SHE's feeling.....which in the end I know doesn't really matter. I'm trying to work my plan to better myself right now.....I'm trying to be patient. I know I continue to talk about inconsequential things on here and reactionary things to what WW is doing....but it's just to keep me involved and keep thinking. Although I know I can't focus on what SHE's saying or doing, I still find it extremely intriguing and I just like getting everyone's input so I can learn about all this stuff. I guess I feel like the more I can try to understand about what she's doing and why.....the better chance at recovery I may have someday, should we be so lucky.

What do you suggest I should be doing differently my friend? Exposure is done and it's 100% clear that I'm not going to break up this A simply through exposure. I continue to work with key family to try to get them to push WW towards counseling,etc. or to get her to wake up somehow. Anything that I push her on is only driving her away. Meanwhile, I'm trying to avoid the LB's and R talk as much as I can (which I admit is hard sometimes) so I can do a good plan A before plan B.

What are your thoughts? I'm curious to know.
Thanks
ILA

Well, my thoughts are that you are no longer getting much advice, because no one is interested in taking their time to get involved in your situation and post to you, only to have their advice disregarded, while you wallow in self-pity and basically do NOTHING other than wring your hands.

Seriously, what have you actually done that was meaningful since you came here? You half-a$$ed exposure, because you were unsure of yourself and the plan that was laid out for you, and only weakened your position. You continue to accept crumbs from your WW and hang on her every word for some delusional sign of something positive. You continue to exhibit your weakness to WW with the clingy contact, and you continue to be a HUGE doormat for her to disrespect and humiliate ... as she is now flaunting her A out in the open.

It appears to me that your WW has lost all respect for you because of your weakness towards her. She will never respect you until you stand up to her.

At this point, you're at the point where you truly have the freedom of nothing left to lose. Your WW is gone to be with OM ... you are facing the possible loss of your home that you're now $100K upside down on, which will no doubt lead to a future bankruptcy filing for likely both of you ... you have no children to worry about ... get the picture???

Exactly what does it take to prod you into action or are you just going to hump up and take all of the above without even putting up a fight for yourself, if not for your M?

When you finally get to the point where you are willing to make an effort and take a chance then my guess is you will have lots of support in forming a plan that you would actually follow and implement, but only YOU can decide when that point is reached.

After having read the entire thread clear through just now, I have some thoughts as well, and they are not pretty, but because by your own admission she has cheated on all her boyfriends, cheated on her first BH (the controlling POS <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />), and you less than six months after marrying you AND

because she is willing to play house with that liitle five yo's daddy while her family and mother is destroyed...without even a blink of an eye, without any respect whatsoever for the little girl and her mother <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />0 and her being a teacher and knowing the damage that is done to kids by this <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />...

Hire the best atty you can get your hands on, secure your finances, cancel ALL joint accounts and have your payroll deposited into an account she can't draw from.

And then in your best Plan A behavior defer all her accusations and attempts to get you to do verbal battle to your atty. ie I am following the advice of my atty.

AND take off your rose colored glasses. This is a man eating piranha you are dealing with. After she got you to marry her the challenge was over for her.

There is nothing else from your posts that would suggest anything different about her. I am sorry.

What MyRev's says is right. You have to stand up and fight for yourself. She'll eat you alive if you don't.

Your gambling problem caused this my [censored].


Keep posing ILA and above all else, hang tough, we are right her with you.