Shall I join the war trumpets?

Yes, I shall.

Get your [censored] out of that mess. You weren't married long enough to have to deal with this torment, you don't have kids, and really it appears that you don't have much of a chance at fixing this.


Get yourself into Plan B, consult a lawyer and do what you can to protect yourself and remove yourself from her abuse. There is a slim chance that this MIGHT turn her around, its doubtful, but YOU are going to be fine, it seems likely that she NEVER will be fine, at least not without years and years of help, help that she right now won't even admit that she needs.

Get into Plan B, start prepping Plan D and begin getting yourself through this terrible mess you've found yourself in.

I don't know what to say you guys. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

My Rev, everytime I've stood up to her things have just gotten worse. I can't end this A, only she can....I have pretty much given into that fact. I think in my case I'm dealing much more with an addiction than an A. It's hard for me to see where standing up and challenging her is going to stop her addiction. I think the only chance is a proper plan A and plan B and then see if she is willing to get help.

Tyk, I am trying to get a lawyer lined up this week, just to start separating finances, get ideas on the house, and figure out income tax return, etc. But, I still want to make her do the leg work on a D. I don't plan to let her off the hook that easy. She's used to doing this stuff and people letting her just walk away and take the easy way out. She wants ME to file b/c then she doesn't feel bad...it's like a morality car wash for her. I won't give her that satisfaction if it comes down to it....I'd just be fueling her addiction.

JJ, sorry to hear your take as you've been pretty supportive of my efforts up to this point. You're right that she is completely shi!!ing on me and is a very selfish, evil person right now. That's why I feel I'm up against a pretty tough scenario here. But, the thing is, I know without a doubt that this is not my W. The woman I've shared my life with for the past 5 1/2 years IS a wonderful person, a caring person, a beautiful, intelligent person. That's not me being delusional or clingy.....that is the God's honest truth. Never have I had someone sacrifice so much for me and care so much for me. That's why we were so great, because we always put each other ahead of ourselves. I'm telling you....she is just flat out SICK and needs help. She's fallen into a dark abyss and is being drug down by all her past terrors and all her current addictions. It's so deep in her subconcious that she can't realize what's going on....she thinks things are just peachy. But I know without a doubt that this is NOT my W I'm dealing with. She is NOT this person. Has she been before....heck ya. She definitely has a pattern. But I want to get her to break that pattern. I know she's never loved anyone more than me...she's told me that (even during all this). She's just convinced she loves OM more right now and she'll never be able to regain her love for me....obvious fog talk. If I don't help her beat this, it's likely nobody ever will. What if your WS had cancer....would you give up on them?

That's the way I feel. There will come a time, probably within 2 months if not sooner, when I will have to go dark in plan B. There will likely come a time when I have to walk away altogether. We may have to get fully D before she ever realizes....and then it might be too late. I may not be up for that challenge for an extended period of time....I can't say right now.

But WW is lost in an addictive state further troubled by a lot of past demons. I'm not going to snap her out of anything on my own. It will take time and it will take family pressure. She's going to have to look deep within to wake up. If she agrees to seek some help at some point, then I can step up my pressure. If I stand up to her now though, she's gone for good. I understand maybe that's the best scenario in the end for me......but I'm not ready to thrown in the towel on somebody I love this much....at least not yet.

I hope you guys can understand this. I'm wondering if I should be somewhere else that deals with addictions more than affairs? I think I need to call the Harley's too. I just wish I could get WW to see our MC on an IC basis, b/c I have a feeling she'd get WW straightened out. Only time will tell.

Thanks for the input. I value everyone's opinion. As seen by TMTS's case, there can be tons of differing opinions and yet sometimes you still have to listen to your heart and your soul to find the right path. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

ILA:

You CANNOT straighten your W out. You CANNOT pressure her in2 seeing an MC.

The Harleys MIGHT be able 2 get her 2 talk 2 them at some point, but they CANNOT make her if she doesn't want 2.

You can ONLY heal yourself.

You are far from the first person 2 come here with a short term marriage and no kids who's been advised that the simplest path would probably be 2 cut your losses and move on.

I was already married 27 years when I found out about my W's affair, and we have 2 adult kids. But even now, if there were another affair, I would end my marriage in a New York Minute, wish my xW well in all her endeavors, give her half our stuff, and start over with what's left of my august years.

Here's something you can do that's really still plan A behavior, even if you don't think it is: When my W called me at work, or from where she was staying while working away from home, if I didn't want 2 talk 2 her I would simply not answer the phone. A number of times, I would hang up on her, politely as possible.

Like a friend of Jack Benny's did 2 him once. He said, "Hey Jack, could you do me a favor while you're in Hollywood?" Jack: "Sure, just name it." Friend hangs up the phone.

Or: "W, someone's at the door! I'll be right back" and leave the phone off the hook until you hear the dial tone.

Or: Crumple a piece of paper near the mike, say: "Gee we've got a bad connection!" and pull the chord out of the wall in mid-sentence.


Who's name is the house under. Consider putting it on the market and moving 15 states away, change your name and bleach your hair, and don't leave any contact info.

-ol' 2long

I realize this now....but I want to give it some time to see if her family CAN. The 2 parental figures she listens to the most are both trying to get through to her....so why not see if they can work some magic and in the meantime I try to make myself look better in her eyes?


Not that simple....house is under both names and if we sell we lose about $100k right now b/c we only bought it about a year and a half ago before the market dropped more. This is the biggest sticking point to us separating right now.

ILA,

I'm still supportive of you and your efforts, but you are not looking at this objectively.

Look at the reality of the situation and base your plan on THAT reality, not on your honey coated version of what is going down and not on a vision you have of what could be IF only she would let you help her fix herself. That's not reality ILA, and a plan of action must be based on reality.

Yes, but please get a lawyer.

A woman wants to be with a man she respects, and you must first practice self-respect above all else.

A roommate will help pay the mortgage until she is forced to buy you out and hopefully your lawyer can buy enough time that if you are forced to sell, your interests are protected first, and the market may change around for the better by then.

Have you read Pep's "Carrot and stick of Plan A"...

It is absolutely not about appeasement or trying to fix the troubled wayward.

Also, this website does consider affairs addictions, but you are dealing with character issues. Your WW has character issues whether you want to face that or not. Her past behavior cannot be overlooked. It is what it is.

Yes, call Steve Harley as soon as you can. That's what you should do, absolutely.

ILA,

I'm sorry, but you are delusional and probably hopeless. You appear to be set on self-destruction, both emotionally and financially.

FWIW, TMTS didn't get results by "following his heart", he simply reached his limit and took action, which was the opposite of the advice from many of the "wait and see" crowd here, and finally got results.

Until you reach your "limit", if you even have one, and take some definitive action, you will not see any improvements in your situation.

I see your WW calling the shots on how this thing plays out. She calls you up and yells at you and then calls you up to smooth things over. I say do your Valentine's Day thing (very simple, no R talk, just the rose and the photo) and then go to Plan B, because I don't see her giving you many more opportunities to Plan A. Her guard is up.

You NEED a lawyer. You're going to end up losing your home, divorced and alone if you don't take some action to protect yourself legally and financially. I'm thinking that your WW may actually start to respect you if she sees that you're not playing her game anymore.

Call the Harleys.

I'm trying to get a lawyer by the weekend.....but how does that change things....I'm still going to end up without our house, divorced and alone right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> The quicker I push things, the quicker the house will have to go. I'm not too concerned about any other legal or financial stuff b/c everything besides the house works out pretty easily and only 6 mth. M w/ no kids....that makes it easy too. CA is community property so we will split things (which isn't much during the short 6 mth. M).

I want the lawyer more for my rights w/ our house, protecting my credit, seeing how the tax returns work out (we have our tax appt. next week), etc. That's all.

I do agree that I should start putting some pressure on her as far as splitting up bills/income/etc. That will give her very little money left over....and she needs to buy a new car b/c her's is about dead! But, the sooner I do that, the sooner she insists we dump the house too. That's why I need the lawyer.

Question about Harley's:

Is there anything I need to have prepared before calling them? I thought somebody said you should fill out some of the EN's questionaire's or something.

Anyone who's had coaching from them....what should I do before I call and start spending the $$ ?

Thanks

I think you answered your own question. But I'd like to add, you taking these steps may just cause her to pause and really think about what she's doing and to see you in a different light.

When you set up the first appt they will email you a confirmation and there will be a couple of forms to fill out giving them some basic information. One is a love bank survey. The other asks a lot of history questions, although I don't remember what all is on it.

Thanks.....do you know if I need to fill out the EN questionairre too? I've been meaning to get to this anyway for myself. For a while I hoped I could convince WW to do the same but I don't see that happening now! I could do one for WW as if I was her....I know that's what Pepperband suggested in an old post.

PM: I could see the possibility of that. She likes to threaten me w/ the D and the house issue when she starts to get rattled. But, I think she knows she's a little vulnerable in those areas too. I do understand what MyRev talks about in regard to her respecting me and that I need to take more action....I guess this is one area where I can take the bull by the horns.

I guess I've been trying to "buy time" up until now....figuring that the more time I keep her from filing for D, the more chance the A will die. (plan A stuff). But, I'm not seeing much sign of that so I guess I should start putting some financial pressure on her I guess.

On the other hand, I see WW as "stringing me along" b/c she doesn't want to file....she wants me to get mad enought that I do it for her....that way she doesn't feel so bad about her actions. That's the way WW sister sees things, too.

I don't want to make it easy on her to get a quick D, but don't want to let her continue to live her life without taking any responsibility for this either.

Get a good laywer and see if he can get your WW on the hook for more than 50%. If there was an EA before you got married, you may have grounds for an annulment. I don't know how that would legally affect things, but get her on the hook for the money, and then she will start to squirm.

From what I can tell, an annullment will be nearly impossible to get....and in our sit. I wouldn't change anything but me keeping more than 50% of our belongings. But, in D, she only gets 50% of what we obtained in the 6 mths. we were married anyway. So, I've thought about this option but it doesn't seem like the way to go (I'll discuss w/ lawyer though).

WW wants this to be easy. She doesn't want to get a lawyer and doesn't want to spend money on it (I must admit neither do I). She wants US to work everything out and agree so it can be done easily and without much pain or suffering. I do think she will be very fair about things (what is mine and what is hers) b/c deep down she really does not want to hurt me....I know she understands how much she already has. She just want out quickly, easily, and without much money or conflict.

I don't want to make it easy on her...especially if I hold out any hope of our M. But, I'll have my limits too on how much I can spend and how much I can fight her on things. I've got a lot to find out from lawyer and a lot to think about.

It's good that she is not going to have hardly any money left over and has to waste money on an atty.

You are not going to bankroll her affair, or the destruction of your life & finances.

Yeah JJ, I've run the numbers. IF I insist that she provide her share of mortgage, put aside MONTHLY $$ for taxes on the house, provide SOME money to help upkeep of the house, take care of pets, etc (I'm living there alone right now), stuff like that.....then after she pays HER bills I figure she's only going to have $300/month to live on. That's for food, entertainment, etc. Plus her car's about dead.

She would fight me on paying ANY money for utilities at our house, upkeep, pets, stuff like that...."because she's not living there". She would also fight me on putting aside money to pay house taxes. She's banking on our income tax return to take care of a lot of stuff....these are all reasons why I MUST consult a lawyer before next week....just so I see what I can make her provide financially in regard to the house/taxes/etc. I could probably make a case for even more than I've considered to this point.

THe only drawback in my mind is this: the quicker I put her in financial hardship, the quicker she will probably want to file for D and/or force me to make a decision on our house. (I can't keep the house on my own, neither can she.....we could maybe try to rent out the whole thing and keep ownership, but she doesn't want to pay mortgage on a house she's not living in...she told me that. She's ready to sell for a loss which means essentially foreclosure...and it ruins our credit....that's the big sticking point for me right now. I don't want to rush into a decision on this damn house!)

I'm a little ignorant about things like this since I've only owned one home before (and lost it to foreclosure during FWH's affairs) but is there anyway you could refinance and buy her out of her share of ownership for say $10.00 (since she's willing to lose anyway) and then rent the house out as you suggested? Maybe if things work out between you two on down the road, she'd be grateful you managed to save your home.

yeah, that's something I've thought about. I really hate to lose the house. She would simply just sign it over to me (and would be quick to do so) b/c we don't own any equity in it yet.

Right now if I keep it on my own I'm taking on a $100k debt w/ the state of the market.

Even if I could rent it all out, I'd still be about $1500/month short that I'd have to come up with. I couldn't do that AND have my own apartment, etc.

Just don't have a lot of options to keep it unfortunately! But don't want to have credit ruined either.

How did you recover from your foreclosure?