Good, now make that appointment!

I enjoyed the he11 out of mine!

-ol' 2long

Man, I hadn't spoken to WW for over a week until yesterday she called and said her car is pretty much dead and she needed to get a new car (which I knew would happen soon). She had the nerve to ask what "we" should do about it and then said she can't afford our mortgage and a new car so "we" needed to do something with our house right away (just 2 weeks after we agreed to sit tight on the house for 6 months at least). I got pretty steamed and we fought a little. I mean, just b/c her car dies why do I have to get screwed? Take the bus, get a used car, have your soulmate pay for it since you're going to spend your life together anyway.....why does the BS always get screwed? !!!

I had a couple of LB's I'm sure...such as "I'm sick and tired of you thinking you can walk all over me like your doormat", "how is it that you continually make me out to be the bad guy" (which was in response to me dropping an f-bomb and her saying "quit cussing at me" & "why are you so intent on making me suffer") & best of all "don't you EVER claim that I'm trying to make you suffer that is simply NOT true...although I have every right in the world to make you suffer after what you've done"

Yeah, it was fun. I don't have a specific appointment scheduled yet with Jennifer/Harleys but hopefully will talk to them early next week. WW is coming over tomorrow to get some clothes and I just found out she decided to go out and buy a new car last night anyway....so she wants me to sign over her old one (trade in) as it's in both of our names. Don't know what the ****** is happening right now but I'm worried tomorrow might be "Saturday night fight time".

I'm sure Harley's are going to tell me to plan A a little longer/better.....but I don't know if I can bite my tongue tomorrow or not. I'm really getting fed up....just like you L2F!

I'm really starting to believe in plan B time (just b/c WW is completely unresponsive and I'm starting to get too angry, but don't want to do anything hasty until meeting with Harley's and get their thoughts.

Wow, should I play it cool or just tell WW off tomorrow? I don't know. I'm finding my anger now, just don't want to act simply out of anger and make things worse.

Well, it's understandable that her call would be upsetting, 2 put this mildly as possible.

During plan A, there will be setbacks. Almost everybody has them. And in a si2ation like yours, it's even harder 2 stay upbeat.

I wouldn't worry 2 much about the LBs. Especially since it appears that she either had already bought the car when she called you, or she bought it right after without getting your okay 2 go ahead.

It's reasonable, of course, for her 2 request that you sign off your interest in the old one so she can go ahead with the tradein. But you shouldn't cosign or pay for the new one or the insurance on it in any way.

I think your suggestion that she get the OM 2 help with the payments is a good and reasonable one 2 make.

Also, he can help pay for the insurance. I'd notify your insurance company (and your lawyer) as soon as possible that you no longer own the old car, and that you aren't renewing on any other car either.

Have you asked for an appointment yet? I wouldn't be surprised if they suggest you plan A for a bit longer, but they might not. Depends so much on how you're doing and the si2ation as a whole.

-ol' 2long

I don't think she can borrow on anything that is one-half yours unless you sign over your half. DO NOT DO IT! You are absolutely correct to assume that OM should now be responsible for her debts.

BD...drive-by poster

Well, I finally signed up for appt. with Harley...hopefully by midweek I'll have talked to someone. I don't see any light at the end of the tunnel right now...D seems inevitable. So hopefully they can get me on a strong plan and give some good suggestions...really looking forward to the coaching.

WW came by yesterday and picked up most of her remaining clothes. I asked if she was living with OM now full time or still at Aunt's house....she said both. I think it's pretty much at OM's except maybe when OM has his child??? That and I don't think WW wants to tell her Aunt the truth b/c she knows Aunt will be p.o.'d (although Aunt already knows the truth from me). I've also told WW's best friend and sister that she's living with OM....neither of them knew...the deceit and lies continue! WW obviously feels guilt and knows she's going against everyone's beliefs.

My big problem right now is legal. B/c she bought new car this week, now WW insists we do something to get rid of the house. Neither of us know the best option. I've talked to L on a consultation and got some ideas (best option is probably to turn over to bank and take the credit hit....we are upside down about 80-100k right now). WW told me she's seeing a L on Tuesday "mainly to ask about her legal responsibility with the house". This could be bad b/c I understand that since I'm still living here, WW might have a right to receive some "rent" money from me.....that's what my L said....not sure how all that works though. WW actually asked me if I wanted to talk Tuesday night after she meets L so we can discuss ideas that L gave her. That befuddled me...I even told WW..."do you really want to tell me what advice your L gave you?"....we actually laughed about it a bit!

Anyway, I'm a bit in limbo right now about our house, the bills, etc. We have things lined up to start splitting the bills and all, but if I force the issue too hard WW will simply stop paying her half of the mortgage....then we are really screwing things up. I'm sort of walking a fine line right now....trying to put some financial pressure but still trying to avoid armageddon! I need to talk to our lender this week to get other ideas on the house....and I may need to go ahead and retain my L soon. Neither of us can afford L's in this mess, and we even openly acknowledge that much to each other....but I may need to anyway, not sure.

Yesterday actually went ok in terms of plan A stuff. Most of the time was civil. I did voice my opinions for about 10 minutes though. Told WW, "yes, WE do share responsibility on lots of finances....WE made a lot of decisions together about OUR future...living together, getting married, buying a house, even having kids this year....then in one swift move YOU made a decision to walk away from all of that. YOU didn't ask me, your family, or your friends but just made YOUR decision. It really angers me that YOUR ONE decision has to impact OUR lives so much and put a strain on MY future". Her response...."I know, it sucks and I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is".

Also hammered the issue that she sells to everyone that "my being with OM has absolutely nothing to do with our problems...they are totally separate". Everytime I start to refute that WW gets defensive and I told her as much this time. I told her it was obvious that if OM didn't exist we wouldn't find ourselves where we are. She wouldn't have walked away from our M if he wasn't already waiting in the wings. I got her fired up enough to blurt out..."well if you would have paid more attention to me, then I wouldn't have had to go elsewhere to get attention"....that's one of the only times she's given a response that actually clues me in to some of the "real" reasons she's done this and which EN's got neglected the most. Hurtful to hear, but at the same time helpful in the intel department. She also mentioned that "she's not my therapist and why do I have to keep asking questions about things". Boy, the day I have HER as my therapist.....I'm in big trouble!!!!

Hoping some M coaching from Harley can pick up my spirits!

You guys were right....I had first session with Jennifer yesterday and she was great.

A lot of the stuff I guess I already knew and understood just from the MB books and this chat room....but she still had a lot of good strategies and a lot of ideas on things to do.

I've got a to-do list now and some direction for more plan
A work. On a side note, I asked Jennifer if you should go to plan B only when your emotions dictate it (i.e. losing that loving feeling)....or if the situation can dictate plan B also (b/c divorce filing might be coming soon).

She said that usually plan B goes along with D filing, but in my case I know I need a little more plan A first.

She stressed the need to eliminate LB's (DJ's in the way of trying to "educate" WW is my biggest problem), and trying to meet EN's through short letters each week to WW to show her subtly what I've learned and how I've changed for the better.

Anyway, long story short, it was helpful and I'm sure I'll get a follow up session with Jennifer in a few weeks. I need to work on formulating my goals for plan A along with a timeline then hope for the best as I work my plan.

That's wonderful, ILA! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I've heard GREAT things about Jennifer, and I'm SO happy you're getting her help!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Lori

Thanks Lori.

Because we are at the point where there has to be some discussion about D and what to do with the house in the event of a D (not b/c I want to, but b/c WW insists on it)....I can't simply avoid all talk about finances, etc. Although we've done a pretty good job of being civil, inevitably some of this still ends up causing arguements and LB's.

Jennifer gave a great suggestion that I ask WW if we can ONLY talk about material items like that via email. Convince WW it's the best way for us to remain freindly and respectful of one another. When we see each other or talk on the phone we shouldn't discuss those types of things...only via email.

I thought that was a tremendous suggestion, something that hadn't crossed my mind. This way we can avoid the LB's by more carefully choosing our words, I can continue to do nothing but plan A stuff when we communicate directly, and it sort of sets some boundaries if you will. Not to mention, I will have a written account of any decisions we make.

Just thought I'd mention one of several great suggestions Jennifer had....I'm hope to employ this strategy.

Just updating my "log". Wow, so much can change in a day. I was so upbeat after speaking with Jennifer at MB....now I might be at a point of no return.

WW had consultation w/ L tonight, then called to discuss things. L convinced her I was responsible for everything w/ our house since I was the only one living here (utilities, upkeep, all of mortgage, etc.) I know she may have some right to some rental benefit of the property, but I don't think I'm solely responsible....need to find out legal rights. She also took $1600 out of our savings without asking, claiming it's her money (comes out of her paycheck) but it's our money as it is joint account and is used to pay for our bills. She just wants to walk away from everything the quickest/easiest way possible (which is her M.O. anyway I know...that's how she grew up too, with her parents doing the same thing). She is willing to just completely default on our house, ruin her credit, and go on with her fantasy life......and she's ok with taking me down with her unfortunately. I don't know if she feels any remorse, guilt, shame, or anything....she's so shut down emotionally right now.

I got very very upset and by end of conversation, told WW to "F-off". Never in nearly 6 years did that phrase ever come to mind....I never thought I'd say it to her. I told WW's sister what happened and she said "good for you...probably makes you feel better doesn't it?". I told her..."no it doesn't, I feel absolutely horrible"....and that's the truth.

WW has been saying all along she wants to work together to figure out the D, house, finances, etc. We both have acknowledged that we can't afford L's.....but she's called down the thunder with this senseless move. I don't know yet, but I may have to retain L now, maybe go ahead and file for D on my own....I might have to play hardball. That may or may not signal the end to any hope of our M and a future together, but I don't know if I have any choice. WW has complete disregard for me or anyone else. I have to protect myself and respect myself too.

Jennifer had me all set up to do some more great plan A work....but I may not have a choice. It might just be straight to plan B or even to plan D and plan FU. UUUUGGGGGHHHHH!

Get a lawyer, ILA.

Your wife is a wayward....and, thus, a liar. Her saying that she wants to "work together" to figure out the finances, etc., is total crap. Her actions have shown otherwise. Active waywards are selfish, and she's obviously no different. She wants what will benefit HER at this point.

If you think hiring a lawyer will cost you too much, just try NOT getting one! Your WW can easily destroy your credit and make your life very difficult, if you don't do something NOW.

Get a lawyer, ILA.

VERY good point!

Updating my log....just called to retain lawyer this afternoon. I have a meeting tomorrow with her to start the ball rolling. WW has left me with no other recourse....she's pushing the issue and making threats....it's time to protect my interests.

This sucks and doesn't do much for the prospects of any M saving....but it is what it is. I'm sure plan B will need to follow right behind and coincide.

I'm interested to see how WW responds to me going on the offensive. She's been quick to use threats whenever I get to close to her A or when she wants to make something happen.....well her threats are making something happen now. I know she doesn't intend to get a lawyer, so it'll be intresting to see if she backs down after this. I don't know if I should file for D now or still wait for WW to do it....not sure legally if one is beneficial over the other??? I'll see what L says.

Man this sucks. I've always held out hope for us, and I guess a small part of me still does.....but she's taking it too far. She's broken, she's inconsiderate, she's selfish, and just plain evil and ugly right now. I know this isn't the real her, rather some evil that she's in the grips of....but she's leaving me no choice.

Got sort of a stupid question.....now that I'm filing for D and have retained L (all of that simply is to protect myself....I don't WANT to do it).....is it stupid to try and do anymore plan A work?

There still suggestions Jennifer gave me that I'd like to work on. WW doesn't know yet that I'm filing....probably be another week or two before I actually do it. I sort of think I'd like to take Jennifer's suggestion of a couple short letters to WW telling her some of the things I've learned through this whole process. I guess it's a way of showing WW that I realize why she became unhappy, I understand any deficiencies I may have had in our M and that I'm correcting them. At least this would leave a good lasting impression prior to plan B letter.

It seems like after D filing it's almost necessary to move to plan B but I'd like another opportunity to show her what she's leaving behind.

Is that too weird now that things with our house and finances have sort of blown up? Last time we spoke (2 days ago) I told WW I wanted to only correspond via email regarding legal or financial issues and if we talked in person or on the phone I want it to not be about that stuff b/c all it does is put us on the defensive and make us fight (Jennifer's suggestion). She seemed to understand that.....but I haven't corresponded with her since.

I don't want to fight with her one day, then send her a heartfelt plan-A type letter the next if that's going to make her think I'm some sort of psycho or am bi-polar or something!

It's weird b/c emotionally I'm not ready for plan B, but the circumstance almost dictates it. Can you plan A during a D....especially if I'm the one who files first?