Hi, i have a thread i used to post in. Some of u know me,my name is Arancha. (i better change it soon because some people will recognise me...).Yes, so my H has been with more women than i thought...Firstable i have to say we have a lovely Christmas, with lots of talk about MB, filling in Questionnaires, he has been really open to change and has admitted his mistakes but has only been telling me that he has had only internet friends and that only met 3 girls and just twice. Then he realised it was a mistake and then stoped doing it. But on Saturday i photocopied his mobile phone records. I told him i wanted to see if what he was saying was true (because he has lied to me a good bit over this internet affairs, although none of the girls i got in touch to have said they slept together, i did believe them and him that they didnt and that he was only looking for friendship because i was a cold woman who didnt give him enough warmth..)So he got upset because he said his phone had been used by some of his collegues that are working with him in Spain (he said that the company they work for was paying for calls from his mobile since he is manager of this project they are currently working on).
I didnt believe this of course. I rang all the numbers, two of them were prostitutes in Spain. Another girl was a 20 yr old Lituanian who told me that my \H had been annoying her ringing as much as 5 times a week for 2 months.
She said she never met him, that he got her mobile number from somebody she doesnt know and that he asked her to go to Spain to visit him, that he was paying for flight and accommodation (he said to her he wanted to have a relationship with somebody because he had no girlfriend or anything and that he would pay for a separate room in the hotel where he was staying). She told me he asked for her shoe size, that he wanted to bring her shoes and clothes from Spain. He rang her once and wanted to meet her to give her a present he bought for her in Spain but she said she refused to meet him because she never meets guys that he doesnt know...
I confronted him about this girl. He says she is crazy and he was joking when he said about bringing her over to Spain.
Then i rang another number, it was another girl he met through a matching website,she told me they spoke on the phone a few times and then he took her out for dinner one night, and then kept in touch on the phone, just two or three more phone calls and that was it because she didnt like him, he said to her he was separated.
\Im devastated. I spoke to a psyquiatrist and im waiting for him to give me an appointment.On the phone this doctor said to me that he thinks that my H has a personality disorder.
I would really appreciate any help from anybody, specially if there are any veterans out there who have read my thread called: Arancha's thread, i wrote it in early December.
Do you think my H has a problem of addiction, or is he just a guy not worth fighting for.
Over Christmas he has garantted to me that if im better and dont put him down, and start working out things between us, he wont feel the need to go to talk to other women because he wont feel so lonely, he says i caused this to happen, or our bad marriage did.
i know im not responsable for his As but im partially responsable for our bad M. that's why im here and not in a solicitor's office, also because of our two young children aged 8 and 6.
Does anybody out here know about personality disorders or addiction behaviour?.
Thanks a lot to the people who are taking their time to read this and help me

Aranchaa - what sort of help do you want to hear?

Do you want help to potentially save your marriage to THIS man?

Do you want help to convince you that you need to divorce THIS man?

Do you want help to erase your fears or to help you to deal with and manage your fears?

It is very unclear just what direction you want any help that might be offered should go for you.

Do you want to be married to this man "no matter what," or are there "limits" to what you will put up with that will end in divorce if he continually goes past those limits?

FH i just want opinions, have you read my thread that i wrote in early Dec?. What do u think about him?. I do love him and i feel i have been responsable for part of his unhappiness. i dont want to be responsable for my M breaking up.
Do u think this M cannot be saved?, would u think he has a mental problem and i should be helping him in dealing with it?. does it sound crazy to u if i stayed and try and make thinks better so he stops betraying me?

FH,
of course there are limits. i wont take any more of this from him in the future. NOw i have uncovered his bad behaviour so he'll have to change or i will leave him. But do u think he deserves no more chances?. i just want to hear what you think about my H, yes THIS MAN like u call him is my H. I want to hear it clearly, dont be afraid. That's all i want to hear, then i can make up my mind and decide. At the moment im just very scared, confused and dont know what to decide or which direction to take.
I suppose because i love him i dont see things as clear as an outsider might

Aranchaa - yes, I have read your previous threads.

As I understand it from what you have written previously, you married him thinking you could "change" him and everything would "magically" be better once you were married.

But you married a self-centered man and he has not changed.

Is there "hope" that he could change? Of course, but no one can provide him the "motivation" to change. That motivation can only come from within himself, and his behavior up to this point has been one of "selfishness" and "doing whatever he wants to do and then lying about it."

I think, and it is just my humble opinion, that if YOU want to try to remain married to your husband (which is why I said "THIS man" rather than a marriage to "some other man"), then it is your right to attempt to save your marriage.

But make no mistake about it, at this time HE has chosen to end your marriage. Why? Because marriage is an EXCLUSIVE arrangement whereing BOTH the husband and the wife PROMISE and VOW to "forsake ALL others, keeping myself ONLY unto you, until death do us part."

If you are willing to uphold your end of the marriage VOWS, and he is not, do you realistically think that you can have an "exclusive" marriage to him? The "best" it would seem you could have is a marriage in which YOU remain faithful to him and he gets to have as many "bimbos" as he wants.

If you want such an "open marriage," there is nothing that any of us here on MB can do for you. You will find, if you have not found out already, that everyone who is on MB believes in the sanctity of marriage and the exclusivity of marriage as being between ONE man and ONE woman with NO outsiders "let in" for any reason.

There are two basic "plans" on MB for helping to end affairs and begin the process of recovering a marriage.

The first is called Plan A and focus' on changes that you can make within yourself to make yourself more "attractive" to your spouse so that they can see that you CAN meet what they perceive as their "needs."

The second is called Plan B. It is primarily a total separation that in many ways mimics a divorce. It is designed to do two primary things. First is to preserve what love you have remaining for your husband, because his actions are rapidly depleting your own "Love Bank," and therefore, your feelings of love for him. Second is to "make" him get ALL of his "needs" met by someone other than you. The purpose is to let "reality" hit him in the face and not "just" the fantasy-like aspects of an affair.

Your "best bet" seems to be Plan B if you want to try to save your marriage. Or you can choose to live with his philandering ways and accept that he will always do whatever he feels like doing no matter what it will do to you. IF you choose the latter path, then you also need to be thinking about what "message" you are teaching your children as to what is "acceptable" marriage behavior for when they grow up and have to decide on a mate.

Thanks a lot for that FH.
I am thinking about Plan B. But doesnt Plan B mean my M will end up in divorce?. If we separate dont u think that things will just get worse?. Do u think i can do |Plan B without going to solicitors?. I thought once u go to solicitors and get into legal stuff there is no way back.
At this stage i wouldnt care. YOu are right he has been doing what he wanted to.
Im lying, i do care, i do love him. Sometimes i blame myself for his selfishness and i feel he is unhappy because i made him unhappy and didnt fulfill his EN.
Dont u think if i had fulfilled him he wouldn't have been so selfcentered?

How would u suggest i apply Plan B?. We live in Ireland and he works in spain at the moment but has promised to come home every wknd so there will be no messing from his part. He wants us to move to spain as soon as possible. im just afraid on the effect this is going to have on the kids, moving to Spain and getting separate there. Wouldn't it be better to do it in Ireland?. He insist he wants to move to Spain and that if we split up here, he want be around for the kids because he wants to live there. he wants us to move there and give our M the last chance.
Do u really think that by meeting all these women he has decided to finish our M?. He says he only did it because he was feeling lonely and i was been a bad wife with a bad face because he couldnt make me happy?. Could he not change if i became better?. MB is about helping people recover from As, why do u think my case is different/worse than any other?

I will pray for you Aranchaa. He definately needs a major change in his life or you will be in this same position again. I will pray that you get the strength to do what you need to. I know how tough that is. The folks on this board are really good. They can help, but nobody can take your hand and lead you down the right path. Every situation is different. But once you decide on a plan, have the strength to see it to the end and don't show him your "cards". That includes your feelings.

thanks OF, but what do u mean when u say, dont show him my cards, my feelings?, he knows too well my feelings

I mean if he thinks you just love him so much that you would do anything to keep him. He won't change. You have to make him understand that you do have a plan to leave (the marriage that is) and know you will be happy without him. You may say you would prefer to work it out, but don't let him think your desperate in anyway.

What im afraid is that if we split up without inolvement of solicitors he will be hiding all the money and will make me suffer by not giving me maintenace and so on...And if we involve solicitors he is going to be so angry and there will be no way of getting back together then or so they say, that once solicitors are involve people hardly ever get back together

I say this because my wife's recovery started going a lot faster when I started to realize I was going to be OK without her. I wanted more than anything to repair and keep our marriage and we're on that path now.

You don't have to actually do anything legally. Just have a plan. Show him that your a strong person.

But what plan?. i dont think i should leave the house. He wont leave this house, he told me before.Then if i decide to separate i will have to ask him to leave and he wont want to (probably), then i WILL HAVE TO go legally, dont you think so?

Your probably right about that. I bet there is a lot around this board who have been through that. Hopefully they will chime in. But I hate what your going through and I will ask in pray that God helps you with this.

No, Aranchaa, you don't have to leave the house if you don't want to. HE leaves. That's called a Separation.

But we can't answer the legal questions for you. You will have to check with a soliciter regarding the laws in Ireland.

When you ask "what plans," that seems to say that you have not read much on this system about Plan A, Plan B, the Concepts, etc. I would suggest that you spend some time reading the information that is provided on the site and then come back to the forums to ask for opinions, advice, or clarification about how those things might apply to your situation.

Was your husband a good husband before, or has he always been so self-centered? Do you think he really wouldn't support his children?

Do you think the marriage was okay? Or do you think that he is just using a bad marriage as an excuse to contact multiple partners?

The numbers suggest that he is a sex addict. He probably won't change without intensive work. Is he willing to work on anything, or is it all just YOU?

Thanks Believer. He has always been very sel-centered. Always saying that working was so hard for him that it was all he could do. Always coming home tired and not being supportive. I would moan to him and complain and try and change him. This Christmas i have used Plan A and he has fallen in love with me again and says he would NEVER feel like been with anybody again if i was so amazing. He says me discovering all his internets friendships (that's how he calls them) was a God's sent because it has changed me so much and i have become the perfect wife for him.
I dont believe yet (because i dont have the proof and because i might be a bit naive..) that he has slept with any of these women. I have spoken with most of them and for long chats, they all deny anything but friendship, and that's what he says too and somehow i do believe he says the truth.
This Christmas we worked on MB stuff and agreed to give it another chance, he would give me his mobiles and leave his computer open all the time. I found nothing extrange, no contacts from anybody in 15 days.
It's last night when i checked his mobile phone's record when i discovered that he has been ringing this 20 yr. old lituanian girl a good bit and then i rang her and she told me about him ringing her all the time. She says they never met but that he has invited her to Spain to go to see him when he is working there. Last time he called this girl was the 14th Dec, just before we agreed to start again. He promised not to mess again. Has offered to do whatever i ask him to do, from moving all of us to Spain or to give up his job there so we'll be constantly together so i can start trusting him again. He has offered to give me the records of his 3 mobile phones, to tell me what he does or where he is all the time, to include me in every financial matter. He has showed this to me by wanting me to go to Poland to sign papers on a house we are closing sale on.
But after i saw all those calls to 2 prostitutes services (i didnt find the actual number of the prostitute so he didnt ring them, just the answer machine which gave the number to ring the prostitute), and after i spoke to that 20 yr old and to another girl who said they met for dinner once and didnt follow up. After this i just dont know what's the best thing to do.
I dont know if i should try and save my M, things were so good over Christmas, i thought we were recovering things. I admit to still be in love with him.
I also know that the day i discover he has had sex with any girl i will give up my fight.
Im waiting to meet this psiquiatrist on Thursday who has told me my H has a personality disorder. Depending on what he says i think i'll be able to see better what i should do.
Thanks for ur answer Believer, what do u think about all i am saying?does it make any sense to u? or would u just go for Plan B without thinking about it?

Hi Aranchea
Big hug - you are going through a hard time and I feel for you.

I am also a foreign spouse married to someone who did not have proper boundaries. In my case, I refused to think about what was going on because I could not see a way to survive as H would never have moved out so I kept my eyes shut. You are way ahead of me in this respect and I congratulate you.

Now you must make an exit plan. You cannot work on your marriage until you know that you can survive if the marriage does not. He needs to know that you will never let him behave badly again and the way to do that is for him to know that you are staying because you want to not because you have to.

I also strongly recommend you not say to him that you will leave him if you discover he has had sex with any girl. You might very well feel this way and you are entitled to feel this way but statements like this will not get you the truth and without truth there will be no recovery.

I recently gave my WH a version of Joseph's letter. Consider doing that as a great way to start finding out why he behaved as he did. Of course he gaslighted like mad ("you are damaged, you would never understand") but the wonderful Harleys soon put him straight!

thanks a lot lied_to_again. What is that Joseph's letter you talk about?. he is coming back from Spain on Thursday and i just told me i might prefer if he doesnt.
\i feel so betrayed eventhough i havent been told he actually had sex with anyone. I feel it might teach him a lesson if he is asked to leave. But dont u think this will put him more at risk of As?, wont this lead to a definite separation?