I was just wonder if the law allow me to wave child support if my ex h would sign over full custody of my two sons to me. Money will be some what tight, but I made enough for all three of us to live on. We just have to stick to budget. I hate the thought of my two sons, 7yrs old and 3 yrs old, going from one house to the next. I'm as an adult would not want to have to pack my belongs, go live in one house for couple days or weeks and move back so why should I expect my children to do it. It was my mistake for married this man, not my children. Please advice...

The thing is, child support is supposed to be for the children, not the parent. The court might view this as you short-changing your children to get back at your ex. If you live in a jurisdiction where you can write your own agreement, your ex might agree outside of court.

As for children living in 2 homes, a friend of mine has shared custody of his daughter. He has a full set of clothing, toys, books etc. at his house and so does her mother. The only thing that goes back and forth is the school bag, which travels around anyway. She actually seems much better adjusted than kids I know who only see one parent every second weekend or so. This man may not have been the right husband for you, but he is your children's father.

Nicely worded, Tabby.

Considering that you are possibly married to a serial cheater, I would think that trying to get full custody is a good idea.

Waving child support on the other hand, is probably not such a good idea. CS provides you with financial assistance for food, shelter, clothing and health care, among other BASICS, that your children will NEED. CS is not for the children. It is for YOU, as a parent, to provide for the BASIC NEEDS of your children.

Consider if you were to become temporarily unemployed or otherwise unable to earn an income. What will you have to fall back on financially?

Go for full custody AND CS.

You may not even be allowed to waive child support. You should actually get MORE if you have full custody. I have sole custody of my three children, and their dad is required by the state to pay child support (based on his and my income) and provide them with health insurance. As your kids get older, you'll be amazed at how expensive they get!

*** no personal attacks allowed *** Your ex is an * edit * for cheating, but for you to take him away from your children who love him is no better. I wish women, well, all parents, would stop trying to hurt their ex and spend more time and effort loving their children.

THEY ARE HIS CHILDREN TOO, and he is their daddy. Don't take that away from them, even though your ex took the option of an intact family away. That would only be a second wrong. No rights there!

I have two thoughts though admittedly I've not followed closely this thread. I also don't know how to quote on here...

Tabby1 said something like that her friend's daughter lives in "two homes" and "the only thing that travels back and forth is the book bag" or something along those lines. PLEASE realize that having a "full set" of toys and books with YOUNGER children is one thing. But these little ones grow up and when they are adolescents it is way different. They are much choosier about clothes, their "toys" are much more expensive and more difficult to keep a "full set" at one home or the other. My stepchildren have to lug whole bags over here b/c they have to remember cell phone chargers, retainer cases, contact lenses, musical instruments for school, iPOD/charger....it's not so easy later on. They hugely prefer at this stage to have a generally stable "home base" and travel to the other house so that friends know where they are most of the time etc. and they can touch base easier with the friends in their neighborhood more seemlessly.

The other thought is this: IF the dad really is a serial cheater, might it be a good idea for him to have less influence on the children? Yes, he is the dad and needs to have a role in their life, but if he is destructive emotionally, 50/50 might not be the ideal in that case.

Again I've not followed closely but these things jumped out at me and I had experience here.

BEST WISHES!!!

M

Auntie M speaks the truth! Visitaion often gives kids both parents while robbing them of their childhood: depriving them of community activities, sports, close friendships, and part time jobs they would have had if they were not traveling for visitation.

1) If the ex won't give up his rights voluntarily and wants visitation, you have NO legal choice.
2) What kind of father is he? Involved, bonded, and supportive of them? If he's a decent dad, his involvement is wonderful!! Crummy and haphazard? Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior.
3) How far away is he? Is he willing to stay nearby and support the children in THEIR lives, or will distance and disruption be the norm?

I second what auntiem said about the influence of a serial cheater. Not only is my husband committing adultery IN FRONT OF the children and likely to parade a whole line of partners through their future, but he lies to them, breaks promises, manipulates and ignores them when it suits him. Since this is not abuse by a legal definition, I cannot protect them.

People should not assume either parent is a healthy functional caring individual.
J

It may vary by jurisdiction but around here, at a certain age (13 I think) the child gets to say who he/she wants to live with. So while they are younger (as in my friend's case), they are merely schlepping a school bag but as they get older, they can take up full time residence with one of their parents. Also in my friend's case (though certainly not universal around here), they have a clause in their separation agreement stating that neither can move more than 5 km from the school. They actually live about a 20 minute walk from one another. Their separation started out quite nasty but they've managed to develop a civilized relationship partly because everything worked out fairly and to no one person's advantage.

I know another divorced couple with 50/50 custody who have to remain in the city of Toronto. Their son is 16 and is old enough to get around by public transit to his various activities.

The statement about divorce and visitation robbing children of their childhood is very interesting, though. My first XH abandoned my son as an infant and I was remarried by the time he started school so my W-STBXH was the only dad he knew and he has no memory of being in a single-parent household (we lived together for a few years first). My separated/divorced friends with children seem to me to go out of their way to spend "quality" time with their kids - to an extent that my son never really had with his 2 parents. I'm probably not making this clear, but for example, my son would come home from school and immediately seek out neighbourhood friends. Even if they were at my house, we (W-STBX and I) weren't really directly interacting with him (except to call for dinner, quiet them down or whatever). On the other hand, my single-parent friends of all forms of custody/visitation arrangement from 50/50 to every second weekend seem to drop all other activities to play with or directly entertain their child. It's as if they spend MORE time with their children than parents in a 2-parent household would do. I'm not sure if this is good or bad. What do you think?

Tabby, I fully agree that I do spend quality time with my kids, while I see my married friends letting them play in the neighborhood. I think some of that is a factor of having a SAHM vs. a working parent who isn't home to supervise, so many kids are in aftercare programs at school, rather than at home to play with the neighborhood kids.
After work, it's dinner, homework and quality time, not just being there while the kids do their own things. I always wanted kids, but not as a SAHM. I am actively involved in whatever my kids do: sports, scouts, dance, etc. I'm not a drop and pick up parent but an active parent. I'm amazed when I hear parents who don't check a child's homework, or read with them, or attend events. I'm not with my kids 24/7, but I think I spend more time with my kids than some parents do.

It's one of those 'take things for granted' situations. I'd still choose the stable, 'normal' house over the one with material gifts or overt actions to 'prove' love.

D17 told me about her new lab partner, a boy, 17. He's an only child, too. Said that his parents give him anything he wants. She said that I'm making her get a job so she can help pay for car insurance and gas, he said his parents just pay for everything. He thinks her situation is weird. D17 said I give her $20/week, and she has to use this to pay for her own clothes and music and gifts and to save up for the car. Teacher was in on the discussion, and said she didn't see how D17 could do all that on $20/week. D17 replied that's why she's getting a job.

So which kid do you think will be able to, once graduated from college, hold down a job and not throw away a job just because it's not 'fun', not get into debt, save up for important items, and just be generally happier?

I always try to stop and think about what we're spending time on - whether it contributes to those 'family moments' that will become part of who she is. Moments where she knows she's loved, we trust her (usually), we respect and value her, and we want her to branch out and take risks. If families spend all their time just watching tv together or doing 'fun' stuff together, they aren't building up that core set of values in their child. So I see the benefit of the intense time with the kids, but I think you need to mix it in with normal time where they feel safe just being part of a family.

That's exactly what I mean, Catperson. I sure wish I could have "played" more with my son or even given him more but so does everyone probably. I did attend virtually all of my son's sporting and extracurricular events and it's not like we never, ever spent time as a family. But there certainly wasn't the same extent of one-on-one interaction. We had it, but not exclusively if that makes sense. And yes, my son had a part time job through high school and paid for many things on his own. He currently has a job to pay for his rent and living expenses while I pay his college tuition (he has the option to live at home so this is his choice). He also pays his portion of car insurance on my car and has since he's been driving.

My friend that I wrote earlier about who's situation I'm closest to actively plays/interacts with his daughter every single day. But he has her for a week at a time, then his week off he does his housework, laundry and everything else that as a parent of a younger child, I did all the time. He can afford to put off a lot of these routine household chores in favour of "quality time" with her - after all, she's not going to need those clothes cleaned for another whole week. Now, he might be developing a stronger relationship with her than I did with my son at that age, but I never really felt there was a strain of any kind between my son and I either. Then again, my son's home and family were stable at the time - he had no reason to believe he wasn't loved.

I think I'm just rambling but I do wonder how kids today will fare in the future given that 50% of them will come from broken homes, if the divorce statistics are correct.

Where I grew up in the conservative midwest, I think I knew one divorced girl, and there was a stigma associated with it.
Is there still a stigma on the child of a divorced family?

Married parents just assume their spouse can do things. We single parents have to schedule to make it happen. At a girl scout meeting, one person said, just have the husbands pick up Pizza and deliver it. I said, not everyone has a husband. 8 faces turn my way. Well, have someone else's husband pick it up. Well, since I'm starting at 50% already without husbands, perhaps we could share responsibilities. It was a weird conversation.

In my school district, it seems my kids are some of the few children of divorced parents.

I noticed a pattern many years ago, when listening to celebrities being interviewed. You will hear, again and again, those celebrities who have made a name for themselves, gone out and fought for what they wanted, say the same thing: "My mother/father attended every game/recital/show I was ever in. I knew she/he believed in me 100%, and that gave me the courage to get where I am today."

Sounds like you've done a great job.

Let me give you the history of my ex and see if anyone else still think that my ex should be involved. My ex h's mother commited sucide due to his father's cheating. His father has since been married to two other woman (at the same time). Two of his uncles has multiple wives at the same time. And yes, they do live in this country. The uncles and ex father in law only legally married a woman, but they also married to the other woman and live in the same house. My ex has been cheating for five years, one lies after another. At the same time, he is also have multiple girlfriends.

Do I want my two sons to grow up to be like him? Of course not. If I have my way, I would take them as far away from him as possible.

Interesting. Not to be accepting of his behavior in any way, but name some of your personal faults.

Ok, now, is he justified in saying he deosn't want the children to be like you, so he should keep them from you? I'm sure you're not perfect, so what exactly gives you the right to rule over your ex in thia situation? These are his kids too, and he is their dad.

Who are you and what are you doing here?

You are not "building" - but tearing down any woman who knows her husband's flaws to be a danger to her children.

I suggest no woman respond to a cyber bully - even if his intentions (father's rights) might have pure motivations. Not all mothers are unfit and not all fathers are saints, Mr SYF.

So, asking someone to actually make their case instead of just allowing them to spout off with no evidence makes me a cyber bully? Wow, KaylaAndy, you must love family court judges!

Are you a family court judge? They don't ask for any evidence either.

Sorry if looking out for the REAL best interests of children isn't your cup o' tea - it is mine.

Ok, first of all you motives are not sincere. I know the child alimony system is unfair and if you were motivated not to feed that system I would support you.

However, it seems to me that you want to remove these children from their father and remove their father from them and are simply using "he won't have to pay child alimony" as a justification.

You are their mother and he is their father and you should not have the right to control their destiny while cutting him out of it. I know it happens all the time and I know the courts let it happen but that doesn't make it right.

Once he is completely out of the picture, the only image the children will have of him will come from you and from what I can tell you will be demonizing him. How will they benefit from that?

No parent is perfect, he could just as easily claim that the children would not benefit from your influence. Wouldn't you object to him taking the kids and never letting you see them even if he truly believed that you are a bad influence?

Moonlight Flower, your ex's family seems atrocious, but you haven't given any details on why you think this is a valid reason to keep your kids from their dad. Please explain.