Aph,

So what happened last night?

Did you stay or did you go?

I got outta here for a few hours to watch some of the BSC bowl. didn't help me much becuase I hate going out alone, I have never liked it. it also sucks that we just moved to this area and neither of us have any friends to hang out with or grab a beer with, so it's either the two of us together or alone. But it was good to avoid WW. When I got home i walked right past her said hello and went to bed, nothing else was said. Today I couldn't resist the urge to shoot her a short e-mail letting her know that I already knew everything in her letter anyway and that I wish I could help her but until she sees that OM has to go there is not much point in talking about it. I also said that I was glad she finally opened up like that and told me how she feels right now (even if it wasn't what i want to hear), since it been a long time since she has really comminucated with me in any way. Tonight she's not home at her usual time so I guess she's either with OM or looking at apartments. I hate being a doormat.

I've been reading jmwc95s story and I'm realizing that I am going to have to figure out who OMs parents are and expose this to them. I'm sure they will have an impact, I'm just not sure how to find out who they are. For now it seems hopeless, shes committed to moving out and that ur marriage is hopeless. Reading jmwc95s story is helpful becuase its similar in many ways to mine..

Aph,

""I hate being a doormat.""

For what it is worth, I do not see you as a doormat.

The thing about plan A is that the BH is trying to be such a super guy, the best H he can be, that it seems very doormatty. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Do not confuse the lack of LB's and violent outbursts with being a doormat.

Stay cool and calm and continue the plan A to the Nth degree. Plan A is still the carrot AND THE STICK.

BCS? I guess LSU is the real deal.

Try Zabasearch or Bigfoot directories online, it's free.
These folks keep up with address changes filed at the post office, utility company changes and many times a phone number. I don't remember which, I think Bigfoot will give you several residences spanning several years, so if he has lived wiht parents recently or in the last few years, there's a list of people who also live in the home, or who have lived in the home. Try it, it may help. He may have named after his dad, something to consider. GF

Any thoughts on things to say to WW that i know she'll talk to OM about? Things that might cause om to think if this is really worth it....I know he once tried to tell her that she needs to work on our marriage (when they were just friends) but then again if she was telling him about our problems, he knew he had a window of opporotunity.....

As an aside, everyone on this board should look for themselves on these directories. One on them gives a fairly
accurate birthdate, month and year. If you find yourselves there, you can email them and ask to opt out. They will give you an address so you can write to them and be removed. These are bad sites for folks who want the OP to
go away. Removing yourself keeps obsessive OP's in check.
To be on these lists all it takes is a listed phone number or a change of address, or utility.

Aph,

""Any thoughts on things to say to WW that i know she'll talk to OM about""

Dude, I think your mind is going close to the speed of light right now. Stay cool and calm. Take deep breaths. Go run 5 miles or walk fast on a treadmill for an hour.

LESS IS MORE! The less that comes out of your mouth might be better. The strong silent type.

How does saying anything to WW that she will talk to OM about fit in the Plan A column and not the LB column.

Anti-deprssnts helped me get through the very tough times. May want to talk to your doc.

TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF!! Seriously. Eat right, exercise, get enough sleep, lay off the sauce. This is all part of the plan A.

Stay strong.

Aph,

First of all, I would like to say-please do not help her move out in any way! Why in the world would any BS who is trying to work on their M even think of such a thing (not saying that YOU are, but to contradict some previous advice)? That would be like cutting off your nose to spite your face. No help, no money...nothing. And the opposite to that BTW, is certainly not whining and crying and begging and pleading. It is a calm, direct statement of-"I do not wish for you to leave. I love you. I will not assist in your leaving. While you being here is painful as you continue to break NC, I want to help you get through this so we can be happy again. I have a plan for us to do just that. I can get over this if you will help me." If you cannot get that much out, just simply say "I love you. I don't want you to leave. I do not assist with separation or divorce, only marriage."

The PURPOSE of exposure is to shed light on the A. He sounds like a complete loser, so while it would be great to find his parents, I would deinitely tell her family NOW. May seem like a LB, but your M can survive her anger. It cannot survive a continuing A. Can you imagine what her family will think about her leaving her husband and beautiful home for a loser who lives in his aunt's basement. OMG! She is obviously not thinking clearly. The people who can help her see that are at your disposal...so let them in and let them help. It is more than many here have, and they would love to have that kind of support.

I agree with 2long and others who say call the Harleys ASAP! You must stop this trainwreck b4 it happens. You still have time- USE it. Do NOT have angry outburtsts (good job last night avoiding that!), continue to Plan A her, and expose, expose, expose!! If she still leaves-Plan B. Very dark. No help from you whatsoever. It will be hard at first, but it probably won't take long. I hope she doesn't sign a lease (especially a year) or you will both be stuck with that payment on top of the mortgage, or have it affect your credit. Not good. The time is NOW, aph, no more waiting around for her to do the right thing. She is incapable-she has told you that...this A is like a drug addiction. What happens to drug users who have people who actually love them and care about them (not just enablers)? They have INTERVENTIONS! Do it now, while there is still time.

Looking back, it was a very good thing, it made me feel very torn between him(my H), OM, and the right thing to do. Even through the thickest of fog, I knew deep down what I was doing was wrong, but used excuses to justify it. I still loved my H, but told him and convinced myself otherwise. She wants to move out because she knows what she is doing isnt right, and probably thinks if she doesnt have to live with you then she wont feel so bad. Ask her if this is the type of person she really is or wants to be? That question is burnt into my mind that someone who knew of the A asked me. Guilt is good for her, and imo the fact that shes feeling guilt is a good signal.

WS seem to think they have everything under control, can see everything clearly...They can convince themselves the sky is green. It is very powerful stuff.

I think exposing the A is good but I really think if you have solid evidence( phone records, emails, letters, etc.) you need to use them when you have the intervention with her family. It may take backing her into a corner, exposing the A with solid evidence to get her to "wake up".

My H had no solid eveidence until he came to my appt unexpectly and found and took my phone that I used to communicate with OM,...busted...no denying it anymore. It was all out in the open. I was backed into a coner with no way out. It was then that I realized I was about to lose everything that meant anything to me.

I also agree that you seriously need to take amazing care of yourself. You are going to need any extra energy you can get.

Please dont hesitate to ask me any ? you may have, Im here to help.

Take care of you!

warmly,
TG

resonance, trigirls,

I have already exposed the affair to both of our families, most of everyone we know knows about it. When I found her secrect affair phone I confronted her and she tried to tell me it was on loan from OM, but later I found out it was a christmas gift from OM. she now admits that she feels horribly for doing this, and that she loves both of us and now has to face loosing someone she loves. but she can't stop, so she continues to see him and keep her affair phone so I won't see the records. she is planning to move out soon, and I fear that will only make the A that much easier for her. She used to be extreemly honest and moral, so I know she feels a ton of guilt for doing this. part of her justification is that the guilt and heartbreak is making it harder for her to decide what she really wants! how messed up is that logic? Anyway, thanks for the advice and support, I'll keep up the Plan A for now and work on exposing to OMs family once I find out who they are and where they live.

Sorry Aph! I didn't realize you had exposed to her family already. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Where is that phone? In the trash, I hope! Ask her to hand it over, and just b4 it gets accidentally dropped in the toilet, answer a call from the OM. "Oh, sorry, this is her H. Were you expecting my W to answer? Thanks for the free phone."

As far her logic...foggy, wayward minds hold very little to no logic. They run on "feelings" and the "affair high." She is trying to appease you with all this guilt talk. It is all babble-put her on ignore and start taking her out and having fun. Stop talking about the A and the R. Date her and romance her and get out of daily he11 life and being wrapped up in this turmoil for a while. I'm sure you could BOTH use it!

Is that phone her only contact to him? Does she tell you when she's going to see him?

EXCELLENT advice from Resonance/LaLa...aph, whatever you do, DO NOT help her move out!!! NO, NO, NO!!! I am a FWW, and I promise you that would be a giant mistake!!! She will not respect you one bit for it...When I went on a 2 week visit to see OM I very distinctly remember my husband, (Mr. W around these parts), telling me that he would NOT help me load my car...Now, sure at the time I was mad at him for that...However, I look back and thank God that he had a backbone...I couldn't have standed to look at him again if he would have been a WUSS...I respect him very much for the stand that he took on that and many other things...

Also, it is NOT a lovebuster to have her family come out unbeknownst to her on move out day...When I read that idea, I said outloud, "YES!!!" That would be more like an intervention...Interventions tick off addicts, but in the long run they see that it was done out of great care and love...That is a GREAT plan...Kudos to you for coming up with it!!!

As far as exposure goes, call this OM's aunt...She is a PRIME EXPOSURE TARGET and could likely give you his parents name and number if you play your cards right...When you call her, just be very calm and rational when explaining your situation...Tell her that you love your wife very much and that you would appreciate any help that she could give you towards encouraging her nephew to stay away from your wife...Ask for his parent's phone number...

Mrs. W

And do NOT let her take marital property from the family home (you can hide behind your attorney on this one-tell her that the attorney said that stuff gets divided up only in divorce court)...She takes clothing and personal stuff ONLY!!!

Mrs. W

No way I would be helping WS either. And if OM comes on your land, a baseball bat should do the trick.

Aph,

""she now admits that she feels horribly for doing this, and that she loves both of us and now has to face loosing someone she loves. but she can't stop, so she continues to see him and keep her affair phone""

Replace "to see him" with SMOKE CRACK and "affair phone" with CRACK PIPE.

This is her addiction caused by the endorphins and pheremones drenching her brain from the excitement of the A.

""She used to be extreemly honest and moral, so I know she feels a ton of guilt for doing this. part of her justification is that the guilt and heartbreak is making it harder for her to decide what she really wants! how messed up is that logic?""

What logic does an alcoholic or crack addict have? She feels the guilt, but that guilt is not strong enough to keep her from her fix. Your wife's body is inhabited by an addicted alien and she is not the rational love of your life you married.

Again, she knows what the right thing to do is, like an addict knows. But her moral compass is spinning like a top.

The only way for her to find the right path is drop the OM cold turkey.

kirk

thanks for the advice and support. Last night I had a little setback and went off about how pissd I was that she continues to disrespect me by seeing OM....I'm so pissed at myself for getting into it with her. But today I've made some progress and I think I've found OMs mother, just haven't gotten the phone # yet. His Aunt and Uuncle know that WW is married, but i'm sure they don't know the truth about our situation. I haven't found that address or a phone number for them yet. as far as the Affair cell phone goes, She's ben very good at keeping it hidden. If I were to get ahold of it again, what would I do keep it and hold it ransome, drop it in the tiolet? she would just use her other cell to call him, and this would infuriate her and hasten her plans to move out. I'm aslo not sure that exposure to OMs mother will help or not. they last time i was able to get on her e-mail she indicated that his mother didn't know she was married. I'm hoping that's still the case. If I get OMs mothers # should I just call anytime, or wait a little bit until she cools off from last nights emmotional outburst. I don't want that to be the last thing she remembers if it drives her out when I call OMs mother....I'm a mess right now. Luckily I started on ADs today so I hope that helps with the outbursts...

aph,

Yeah---avoid getting into the fighting with her. Leave her cell phone alone---destroying it is a lovebuster. It's not like she can't find another phone...

With regards to helping her move---I remember reading something by Dr. Harley about that advice (if they're adamant about moving). I couldn't find it on the site, so maybe it's in SAA (I gave my copy away). You certainly don't have to if you don't want to---if it's going to hurt your feelings for her, then don't. I really don't think the respect thing is going to be an issue either way, because you're dealing with an addict.

Interventions are very tricky things, and Harley rarely uses them. Steve and I discussed this for my wife, and the answer is no.

And antidepressants are good, but they'll take a while to kick in. Try to avoid confrontations with her now---it'll just drag you down. Been there, done that...

I'm avoiding her as much as I can for now. (I have read SAA and HNHN both recently, but gettting used to plan A is easier said than done. Each day I get better, no more calls, texts, e-mails Ect, other than day to day stuff. just he occasional outburst, which I have to control now. I;m sure the ADs will take a while, but no side effects yet, so thas good. (WW had bad sickness to the first ones she went on) Anyway, I'm on a mission to expose to OMs mother right now. I want it to work becuase it seems like my last hope at stopping the affair. I want to do it right and make sure I pick the right time and the right things to say to OMs mother. WW is going to flip and being as stubburn as she is, it may backfire, but I feel like I have to because once she moves out it is going to be much harder to put pressure on the A.

aph...

Do not worry about her anger due to exposure, she'll get over it...Anger your marriage can survive, an ongoing affair it cannot...

Mrs. W