Hi all!

So this is my first post. I discovered a month ago after suspecting a month prior that my husband was indeed having an affair with a woman in his office. I made it clear to him that if he still wants our marriage (which he said he did) that he needs to end the affair and break off all non-work related contact (finding a new job is unfortunately not an option). But he's in withdrawl and keeps torturing us both with continued phone calls and text messages to the OW. She's married and I toyed with the idea of informing her husband, but decided not to since I thought that would only drive my husband away further and just cause a lot of embarrassment. I am, however, wondering if I shouldn't just do it. I have begged him every few days to stop and recently he got very defensive and angry and said he wouldn't. He took to saving her number under the names of friends, but I found those out easily and did confront him. Yesterday, we had a short argument again, and he asked me angrily if deleting her number would make me happy. I said yes. I mean, come on! I've been asking him to stop for a month now and he still doesn't seem to understand just how important it is for me and for us.
Which leads me to this Plan A stuff. Just what do you do in Plan A? It sounds to me like just trying to pamper your spouse while they go through withdrawl while the betrayed spouse grins and bears it. Is there more to it? How long do you do Plan A before moving to Plan B - ok, not time-wise, but when do you stop being accommodating when your spouse keeps extending the withdrawl process through continued contact?
I've emailed a friend of mine about the problem, but she lives in a different city and can't offer much support. So I've informed my MIL, and my FIL knows about it through her. They have promised to keep mum about it. I'm afraid my husband will withdraw completely if he finds himself being pressured by family and friends. I'm also concerned about him giving up (not that he's working very hard) on our marriage if I drag the OW's husband into the fray. Has anybody done one (involve family/other betrayed spouse) or both succesfully, and if so, just what was your action plan? My husband is really unhappy with our situation at the moment, but obviously not bad enough to really want to make a change and come clean.

Anyhow, I'm seeing a psychologist on Thursday and will hopefully get some good counceling and medication. My husband won't come with me to marriage counceling, so I'm on my own. I can't hardly sleep at the moment and I've lost a lot of weight and am seeing a doctor for that as well. I switch back and forth all day between hope and deepest black and it's just all so exhausting. I'd really like to get through this as unscathed as possible.

Thank you so much in advance for your advice and help. And please bear with me while I learn all the accronyms!

ETA: we did the EN questionnaire and supposedly DH is 100% satisfied by me and can't explain why he got into this relationship. I find it hard to believe and think he's either lying or is afraid to tell me what's missing.

I am new here, but I think most people would agree to inform the Husband. There will be some fallout, but with the time you have allowed already, and no counseling or help from your WS, would it be fair to not inform the other spouse?

Also, with the secrecy of the affair in the open, it should come to its demise.

I'm always sorry to see new posters here, but at the same time glad they found this place. I recommend reposting over in the General Questions II forum because there is a lot more traffic there.

As a general note, the advice you will receive is often counterintuitive. For instance, you might intuitively think that exposing the A to the OW's H is a bad idea and will drive your H into the arms of the OW. In fact, the opposite is true. Exposing to the OW's H is a very important step that you must take for a couple of reasons. One, because he has a right to know. Two, because it then makes it harder for your WH and the OW to continue their A. Ideally, the two Betrayed Spouses work together to help ensure NC between the Affair Partners.

But you absolutely should not tell your WH about this ahead of time because he will likely pre-empt your exposure by warning the OW and she will tell her BH that some crazy lady is going around making up lies about her.

Your WH will probably be furious about this when he finds out. That's OK. He's addicted to the OW and anything that interferes with his addiction will make him angry.

The next step will be exposing the A to his workplace, especially if there is any kind of policy regarding workplace romances or extramarital affairs. The bottom line is that the two of them cannot work together if you want to recover your marriage.

It is also okay (and recommended) for MIL and FIL to pressure your WH to end all contact with OW. Your WH may say things like 'I was working on the M until you pulled this stunt,' but that is (again) because he doesn't want to lose his drug.

Don't take too much stock in your WH's responses to the EN questionnaire at this time point. Search for The Carrot & Stick of Plan A for a great list of what you should and shouldn't do during Plan A. As for the length of time, Dr. Harley has said that women can generally only manage it for a few weeks before having to head to Plan B. Get yourself a copy of "Surviving An Affair" if you don't already have one.

Thanks for the advice. Just some background info. I was married before and ex-DH cheated on me, too. We went to marriage councelling for about 6 months before I gave up and left him. He kept splitting hairs with sayings like "you didn't forbid me to call her". There's just something about WS not getting the concept of no contact (I'm assuming that's what NC means?). Anyhow, I'm strong enough to stick out Plan A for months, if necessary. I'm not sure about the exposure issue though. Should I be pouring on the honey before I contact the OWH and let his parents pressure him? DH is really, really suffering withdrawl at the moment - lots of depression, irritation, etc. So I do have sympathy for him which actually surprises me. I'm not just worried that he'll be really angry and want to leave if I inform OWH, I'm worried that he'll close himself off even more from his family (parents, siblings) and friends who he's been neglecting a lot recently. I guess what I really need are some tips - I saw somebody's toolbox for Plan A (Bob's?), but there were so many links with endless discussions. I really need some concrete suggestions. So far I have been trying very hard not to LB. If I need to vent, I write in my diary. That has been an immense help in cooling off and also giving me inspiration for our occasional discussions. I've also tried not to grill him every day. I save talks for weekends. If I'm upset about something - another SMS from OW, then he does take notice, asks what's wrong, and we'll talk. But it usually ends rather bitter with him feeling like I'm controlling everything simply because I want the contact to stop.

So basically my plan A looks loosely like this:
a) chill
b) write in my diary so I don't blow up on him and note new discussion tactics
c) wear make up/perfume - just try to look nice and make him take notice
d) no pressure for sex - that was/is a MAJOR problem
e) don't harp on him daily about OW
f) give him space instead of monitoring his every movement

So I'm wondering what else I could add? I'm a housewife and mother (not his child) and just recently became a day care provider when I noticed that something was up with DH. My work is anything but glamorous. And that's one thing he did note in the questionnaire was that he liked having a wife who has financially worth even though our original plans foresaw me staying home to care for our children (we still don't have one of our own). I moved to this area 2 years ago and still don't have any friends of my own and my family lives in the US (I'm in Germany). So there's no chance of me going out and showing what a fun person I am on my own. And with my meager income it's about out of the question. When DH and I go out, we're usually surrounded by his friends and I'm left in a corner to rot. If we go out alone, we can't hardly make conversation and everything is tense and I just can't wait to leave. It's really painful. I don't expect hours of eloquent conversation from him - he's not talkative - but being made to feel like he'd rather be any place but here with me really hurts.
So what else can I do before starting exposure? What do I do afterwards?


ETA: I wanted to add another point to my plan A. For Christmas I had a family photo of us framed to put on his desk at work. I thought, if he and OW are using text messages to remind each other that they're thinking of the other, then having a picture of us under his nose might work the same.

Yes, NC means No Contact. It's the first and most important step in all of this. Your WH will continue to have feelings for the OW until NC has been firmly in place for months. This is harder when it is a workplace A, but not impossible.

Dr. Harley and his wife talked about this on the radio show today and he noted that Day 1 of Recovery isn't until the OW has left the workplace. So you will need to contact your WH's supervisor and ask for the two of them to be completely separated (at the least).

Yes, your WH will be angry after he finds out you have contacted OW's H and his supervisor. But as another poster here always points out, your Marriage can survive your WH's temporary anger, but it cannot survive an ongoing A. He may also close himself off to his parents when they confront him. That's his choice. Be prepared for many hurtful comments from him and do not take them to heart. Also, do not blow up in response.

Good job on trying really hard not to LB. That is also key and very hard for many BSs. Especially not grilling him every day. It would probably be best if you didn't grill him at all, even on weekends. Discussion of your M is best saved for Recovery.

Do not engage in arguments, as they are pointless. Calmly, but firmly, state your feelings and requests and let it sit. Try to meet his ENs as best as you can.

I am confused about the "d) no pressure for sex - that was/is a MAJOR problem" comment, though. Can you elaborate on who was pressuring who for sex and why? Did this come up in his ENs Q?

As for the going out, I recommend the two of you go out with each other, not as much with friends, so you can give each other undivided attention. As far as conversation goes, try to figure out what he'd like to talk about. For instance, what does he talk about when he's with his friends?

I'll put a shout out onto the General Questions II forum, so some BWs and FWHs can give you some advice. I'm sure they'll want some more background information, such as how old each of you are, how long you've been married, how old your children are, etc.

Here's "The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A" by Pepperband

THE CARROT OF PLAN A:

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



THE STICK OF PLAN A

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Allowing the consequences of adultery and infidelity to fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to affect children of the marriage or the financial security of the marriage, or otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slain for the good of the family.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

expose expose expose....the A is more likely to end if OW's BH (betrayed husband) knows and confronts her. He might make her quit the job. You really need to expose. But trust me, you Husband will be P*SSED. But Ol well, if you want your WH this is how its gonna work. Harley says A ends like 6 months after exposure (or something like that).

grrrr, I had a nice long reply finished and the board ate it.

Ok, thank you so much for the carrot and stick advice! I did a search, but apparently every single post on the board came up. I had no clue where to find it.

Sex pressure - shortly before D-Day, DH's passion started waning and completely dropped off the map after D-Day. We would lie in bed to snuggle and he'd lie there like a corpse, completely passive and unresponsive. It enraged me because it seemed so passive/aggressive on his part, and I knew he was having wet dreams which were obviously not about me. So I did some research and found some articles on sensate-focus exercises and thought that sounded great (lots of re-learning through certain touch exercises and sex ban in the first month). But DH wanted nothing to do with it. So I just stopped. I figured, if he wants it, he knows where to find me. And lo and behold, just last weekend he initiated sex even though we'd had a gruelling evening talking through a lot of stuff - I had wanted to do a regular monthly review, but he wasn't hot on it (I know, mutual enthusiasm) so I didn't say it was a review, but just wanted to talk, ask questions that hadn't occurred to me before, discuss NC again, how I think he's keeping her number saved under a friend's name, talked about addiction and withdrawl. I printed out an article from Harley on this for him. I told him to read it at his leisure. He keeps picking it up and putting it back down. I wish he'd read it. I'm sure it would give him a big "a-ha" effect since during our discussion he said it did seem to make sense that he's in withdrawl.

Anyhow, back to exposure. Shouldn't I have a real plan? I mean, should I wait a little while longer for him to notice how relaxed I've become and how much I'm doing to make him happy or do I go in swiftly and just keep pouring on the honey despite his anger? Do I call and inform everyone in one day? I'm not even sure I've got the OW home number so I can contact her husband. Her name is the German equivalent to Smith or Jones, but knowing that she lives near work, I've found a number that might be correct. I think I'll try to reach him first before contacting anyone else. But I'll need help with that since my accent will betray me if OW answers the phone. And I don't have any evidence to hand him. The only evidence I had were DH's outgoing text messages to OW. DH has since removed them from his cell phone. And I have no access to his computer or his phone bills which are on his computer. He thinks I'm already controlling enough with the NC demands and his cell phone. Asking to see all this stuff on his PC will irritate him more, and I'm certain he'll deny me access. As for exposure at work: I don't know his supervisor at all. I do, however, know a collegue of his. She's the wife of one of DH's best friends, and she's the one who got him the job. Her office is right next to DH's. I don't know where OW's office is. I haven't seen her name on any doors near his. The thing is, I don't know this collegue well at all and it feels strange confiding this to her when I'm not sure if she has my best interests at heart. She did call DH at home one afternoon before D-Day- he wasn't there - and she might have dropped a hint. She said he always went home early on Fridays. But I was doing some schooling at that time and his leaving early might have been related to that. Still, I wonder if she knows or suspects. Which leads me to my next question: Just what should these family, friends and co-workers do after I tell them? I don't want them harrassing DH - he's already depressed enough. Are there any do's/don't's or is it enough to tell DH who knows about the A and are keeping their eyes open?

And what do I do after exposure? Do I wait for him to find out? Do I tell him directly? I don't plan on apologizing, but do I need to make any explanations? Just stay calm and discuss addiction and withdrawl with him again and why NC is so important? Any ways to keep HIM calm so he doesn't just walk out directly?

I'd be grateful for any more advice on exposure. I'm sure there are more questions that I haven't asked or issues I haven't touched on that maybe someone else might like to mention.

thank you!

OK, another question about timing. I just found out this morning that his mother is in the hospital. I saw her on Monday at the doctor's office and later at the pharmacy. I knew she was going in for testing, but they're keeping her there a while. So now we're all worried about her. I think I ought to wait with exposure until we know she's going to be ok. Also, I think I'd like to be on medication for my depression to help me deal with him blowing up. He also has his birthday later this month, and I'm not sure if I should expose before or after. Which would have the best effect?

I too, as you can see, a very new and will be posting my own thoughts/questions very soon...but for now have been reading others and wanted to reply to yours.....definitely without a hesitation expose. It ate me up for weeks that I had not contacted the OW husband and once I reached him (as she intercepted calls beforehand) I told him all I knew along with concrete items to support the affair. And after we can hung up I felt like a huge elephant had been lifted from my shoulders. And yes, my husband was outraged beyond belief, but I knew and he knew it had to be done. Do not let your husband know you are doing it, like someone else said, as he will beg and plead for you not to...trust me, it happened to me often. We still have a long road ahead of us, but knowing that the other party involved knows, that gives some security that she will not make any attempt to contact my husband again as well. Good Luck.