Seriously, I'm not worried about him leaving me at this point. I was worried about that before, but not now. I'm trying to find the right balance for this point in our life - day 5 after confrontation about his A. I'm trying to do the right things to give the M a shot with a WH who will hopefully soon become a FWH.

You all are being so helpful and I know I'm avoiding mistakes by hearing what you have to tell me.

I made copies of the text log I printed this morning. I plan to share that with him tonight. I was really trying to protect my sources, but he figured this one out and hopefully, I can use that as leverage with him.

If we do end up in D, I have all the documents and info I need to really prove my position, so it won't matter in the long run if he knows my sources. Obviously, I won't give it up if I don't have to, but if I do I probably won't hurt my position as much at this point.

I made copies of the text log I printed this morning. I plan to share that with him tonight. I was really trying to protect my sources, but he figured this one out and hopefully, I can use that as leverage with him.

I think you would do well to share it now, where he already changed his password. There is a good chance he does not know for sure, but is just trying to plug leaks. I think you could really use V's quote (but maybe modify it) on him.

(After you show him the text logs)
WH, we both know you lied to me. I am willing to try for a time, but not forever. If you want me to trust you, then you will have to be transparent - give me all your passwords, and make your life an open book. I still have other sources, and there is a good chance I will know if you continue to lie to me. There is no reason for me to stay with someone who continues to be a cheat, and a liar. As I said, I will give you a chance, but you have already used up quite a bit of my good will. I am not seeing someone who is sorry, and who wants to make thing right. I am seeing someone who feels bad they got caught, and who continues to hide things. I am looking for change, and I am not seeing it yet."


Again, you would have to modify so it sounds like something you would normally say. This is just for an example.

If we do end up in D, I have all the documents and info I need to really prove my position, so it won't matter in the long run if he knows my sources. Obviously, I won't give it up if I don't have to, but if I do I probably won't hurt my position as much at this point.

Agreed.
Others have voiced one of my worries. That he will just get another phone that you don't know about. We still don't know if he is trying, but addicted, or if he has no intention at all of quitting, but is trying to find a way around what you know. Anything you can protect may help you find the truth in the future.


At this point, you still don't have anything. He SAYS he wants to stay married. HIS ACTIONS do not support his words.


We hope he is sincere.
We pray that the truth will come out quickly though, so you will know.

SS

KLD,

I'm so happy you got more information from him and that he said he wants to work on your marriage.

However, I think he is lying through his teeth to you. Changing his password is completely contradictory to what he is telling you. This is how he has operated with you for years. Says one thing, you react calmly and acceptingly, and then he figures out how to go on with his life.

IMHO, I don't think you have ever really had to worry about his leaving you. He has left and come back every time, doing all he can to make you feel guilty and responsible. He has no intention of leaving you. he does NOT wnat to marry the OW or even live with her full-time. He is living a double life and he likes it. Very much.

Also, IMHO, this not the right time to be finding the balance. The affair is still in full swing. He is in contact with her. He has changed his password. He is thinking every minute about how he is going to convince you it's over so he can go on with his A.

Again, this is only my opinion but....I would stop worrying about the LBs. He is on to you. He knows that you are trying to control your emotions and approach him reasonably. He is using that against you. I understand the importance of avoiding LBs in recovery, but again, an angry outburst about your feelings and his actions to a clearly unrepentant WH is not the same thing.

I told my FWH about your talk with your WH last night and the first thing he said was, "If she doesn't start showing him how mad she is and how deeply this has hurt her he's gonna keep puling that wool over her eyes." I told him that you had told your WH how much he hurt you and he said, "It won't work. It didn't work when YOU told ME. She has to SHOW him."

I cetainly second Valentine's suggestion about his password and LOVE the letter to the OW's mother. Are you going to expose the multiple OWs to each other?

And here is where I am sure no one will agree with me. In the book Love Busters, Dr. Harley comments that sometimes a person will not respond to anything BUT a demand. He says that this is not normal and explains it a bit.

MY H has been one of those people for most of his life. Until the idea is presented as a DEMAND, he just doesn't get that I am SERIOUS. He thinks he still has some wiggle room and that he can get away with NOT really doing it.

This is improving, but you can bet that at D-Day, until I made DEMANDS(which I refuse to call selfish, they were made to SAVE our marriage) and had mutiple ANGRY OUTBURSTS, NOTHING was going to change. Even now, I am regretful about some of the things I did NOT demand. I framed them as thoughtful requests and sure enough he did not do them. One incident we discussed with our MC. I could see that he genuinely did not GET that my request was vitally important to me and and his refusal to do it damaged our recovery process. Once he got it he was remorseful, but it was too late for this particular request to be fulfilled.

People hear the things we say in different ways, through their own filters. What may sound like a selfish demand to one may merely sound like a strong and important NEED to another.(I think you are THAT type of person. You are giving to a fault and want to meet not only your H's needs but your family's, etc.)

And vice versa.

Sometimes, a thoughtful request feels like a selfish demand to someone, no matter how carefully it is worded.(Needless to say, I think this is your H.)

The concept of Love Busters assumes that the person you are trying to keep from Love Busting will be responsive to your efforts. Sometimes, for a variety of reasons, a person is NOT responsive or CHOOSES not to be responsive.

Please consider whether or not your husband is one of these people. You are doing SO well and are so brave and strong. You deserve the best.

Praying,
WH2LE

hi k,

i also like the letter to mom of ow. i hope she has the good sense to understand and be of some help.

i am wishing you all the best. you are such a kind and caring woman. i hope dh knows what an amazing wife he has.

know you are in my thoughts.

<3

I wasn't going to expose OW1 to OW2 and vice versa at this point. I'm rethinking that decision, though.

I don't mind calling OW2 and speaking to her. She may not even know he's married. That won't be hard to do.

OW1, though, is a real piece of work. I can't just call her up and expect to have the kind of conversation that would be productive in any way. I've already had 2 encounters with her (March, 2007 and July, 2007) and neither one went well at all. She is unreasonable and nasty. If I expose anything to OW1 it will need to be through email most likely. I'd be glad to hear opinions on that...

KLD,
e-mail sounds good to me. I would do it quickly though.


WH2LE

WH2LE, AmIOk had a similar experience, her H kept lying about being done with the affair until she boiled over one day. She called it Plan FU. It woke him up from his fog, and they've been in recovery over a year now. KLD, you can find her latest thread in InRecovery, she still posts.

KLD, I would do those exposures NOW. I agree about doing it via email with the nasty OW. Be sure and tell her that now that your H is trying to save your marriage, you would appreciate it if she stopped pursuing him. [she needs to know this is what he is telling you]

Hi KLD,
Regarding exposure to the OW you have had contact with in the past, I agree to the e-mail exposure.

BUT, I would set up a separate e-mail account that is only for the purpose of contacting her. I would not use your regular e-mail account. Don't give her access to it, set up something just for your communication with her.

I mailed the letter to OWM today via certified mail. She should get it tomorrow or Saturday.

I tried to call OW2 today and always got voicemail. Will try again in the morning.

By the time I got home today I was near a panic attack. Hadn't been that close to that before. I had run out of Xanax and needed to pick up my prescription this afternoon. By the time I got home I was not in great shape. WH was home and I fell apart when I saw him.

He was very attentive and listened closely. Asked permission to move closer to me to talk me through. I told WH that I was so angry at him and had promised him that I'd behave with restraint and it was taking a huge toll on me. I told him that I wasn't allowed to tell him with the emotion and force I actually feel how he's hurt me because of his reaction to getting yelled at. Then I let it all out. It was mostly crying instead of yelling, but I didn't hold back.

I told him I knew he was lying about contact and that he'd changed his password. He says he changed it because he thought I called and got it by giving his SS# to Cingular and that made him mad that I was using his SS#. I told him that I guessed the password - just got lucky. I didn't have to show him the print out but told him I had it. He admitted then that he was having trouble getting her to back off. He said she's not aggressive or angry, just won't stop. I suggested that he just not answer if he hears from her.

I told him how it appears that he's not really interested in doing the work to recover and that he's either waiting to see if this will blow over or for me to get mad enough to file for D.

Much more was said. I'm going to set up an appointment with Jennifer for next week. Next step is to get him an appt for STD testing.

I felt weak for falling apart, but it gave me a way to get out my thoughts and feelings.

He agreed to show me all I'm asking for. We agreed to do it this weekend since online info won't change - specifically his bank records.

I still need to get his passwords. He's agreed to share them all. I'm going to remind him to send them to me via email.

Good idea to email OW with a special email address. I'll set it up tomorrow. I'm sure it will get forwarded to WH - I might ask for your expert advice again before I send it.

EO - thanks once again for your great help pointing me to others who have posted things that may help me. It's invaluable the things I've learned by reading what you recommended.

KLD...

I haven't posted to you before, but have been following your thread. I am so sorry for all that you are going through. And don't worry about the panic attack and what happened during it (I can SO totally relate...I suffer through them myself...it sucks...mine have been so bad I have fainted before...). You are under a lot of stress. It is understandable. If anything, I may help your WS to see the affects of what he has done. Heck, mine ran from my affects. Guess he couldn't face it.

Anyway, you are doing remarkably well considering. You are a strong woman and this will make you even stronger. Keep your chin up and chest out...

Not2fun

KLD, will he send the OW a no contact letter via email TONIGHT? And will he give you his password NOW so you can monitor the contacts?

Thanks, n2f. Your support means so much. It helps to know that possibly I didn't screw up. It went completely different than I'd planned...

No way! You did great!

Amazing, really!

~ Marsh

He11 no, you didn't screw up! It is good to show him how very hurt you are.

KLD,
Is there a reason why he can't give you those passwords tonight? Why does he have to email them to you? Don't wait on this, the longer you wait, the longer he has to continue contact with OW, all the while telling you it's her coming after him...you need access to those accounts, there will be no denying contact once you have those passwords and he knows it..make sure he follows through, it shouldn't be an option for him to wait until the weekend...

YAY for KLD!!!!!! YAY!!!!!! (wild, thunderous applause!!!!)
YAAAAAAYY!!!!!!!!!!

You were not weak!!!! Showing your deep emotion was STRONG!!!!!!!!!!
YAAAAAY!!!!!!

You did great!!!

Praying still,
WH2LE

By now you may be feeling a lot better. I hope you are.

If you are not, I recommend Prayer.

God knows things you and I do not know. Were we to take a walk, we might see the trees, we might see grass, and flowers, and many other things. God would see what we see, but he would see much more. He would see the tree, but he would see the birds nest, and he knows how many eggs are each nest. He would see the grass, but he would see the ants in the grass, and know what they are carrying, and where they are taking it. He would see the flowers, but he would also see the bees darting into each, and he would know where their hive is, and how much honey they have stored, and he would know each bee and how much they help the hife.

God knows you personally. He loves you, more than words can express. He knows what you need, and what will help the most, and he can give it to you.

From Luke Chapter 11
9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?


As I said, I hope you are OK.
But, if not, please pray, and ask for help. I know he cares about us, and will help. I am sure there are many of us who will add our prayers to yours.

Sweet Dreams KLD. God bless you with peace tonight, and the rest you need. May your H find peace also, and the strength to do what is right.

SS