The things I required were pretty simple:
NC
Proof of NC
Sharing passwords
MC
Proactive effort on his part to discuss our issues
STD testing

NC - he says none since 2/14 but lied about it every day from 2/10 - 2/14 when I finally handed him the printout from his cellphone records to prove he was lying.

Proof of NC - he showed me his cell phone records every night from 2/15 forward. She sent text messages there were no responses from him to those and no phone calls to her. He had his old number disconnected yesterday and will use his work cell phone from here forward. He showed me his call records last night and nothing to or from her. No way to prove he has no secret cell phone to use just for her...

No passwords except to the one email address I already had the password for. Changed his bank password so now I can't see that. He said he was deleting his other email accounts so the only one he has is the one I know about. No way to prove that he only has one email address...

At least he remembered that we have MC tonight. That was a tiny bright spot in a very dark cloud...

As for what he's done besides talk, not alot really. Showed me a few cell phone records and vowed to delete email accounts. Said he will give me the password to his work cell phone if he can get access to it since it's not his personal phone. Was supposed to work with his office to find out today (they were off yesterday for holiday).

He hasn't shown a whole lot of anger and he hasn't been resentful of what I've done to catch him. He's answered questions I've had, but he's not been proactive at all about talking about where we are or anything like that. This is actually typical of him in any situation where he wants it to blow over, though. He does that with everybody.

He's made no effort that I'm aware of for std testing. I'm going to mention that one more time and see what happens there. I'm still waiting on results of my blood test.

So, alot of talk on his part and a little action. I told him last night that this has got to change and he must get involved and enthusiastic about saving this M if he wants me to believe that he really wants it. I wish I'd seen your quote first - it was much more succinct and much more like I'd really like to have said it!

The other thing he's done is start using some of the words I've said to him about how I feel to describe how he feels. Example: I've told him I don't feel safe in a M where my H cheats and lies. A few days later he says he doesn't feel safe giving me details that he knows is going to make me angry.

As for me, I have good and bad times. I'm still feeling very anxious and having to take anti-anxiety meds. Also ADs. Most of the time I'm okay. I'm having some trouble concentrating on work and being motivated to do things around the house. Actually, I feel like if I could just go to sleep for about a month or so, and wake up with a new lease on life I'd be great!!!!

Truthfully KlD,
Until he turns over the things you asked for, you have no reason to trust him. You will continue to feel anxious because you are not SAFE with him. The fact that he hasn't given you passwords, NC letter and is asking if he's being followed does not sit well...

I totally agree with RW.

I would even venture to guess that he's still in the affair and has just gone deeper underground with it.

He may have an affairular phone now.

He's not fooling us any.

If he were serious about wanting to keep your marriage, he would do those things you asked in a heart beat. He's still on the fence and probably full from the cake.

Sorry KLD. He's not sincere, yet.

For any of you who have gone through MB MC, will Jennifer stress these things with us immediately? I'm sure this goes on a case by case basis, but I feel I could use some help making him see how important transparency really is to rebuilding trust.

As for this dinner tomorrow night, he may be able to produce an email from his boss or a voicemail, but most likely he won't offer it if it was more than a phone call. It won't even occur to him that I will have doubts that he's actually having dinner with his boss. I'm tired of asking the questions - I might feel differently if I hadn't been asking the questions for months and getting lies every time. If this was really new news to me, I may be okay continuing to ask questions, but I'm tired of it.

I sent an email to my PI. She will suggest following him for sure - she'll get paid for it - LOL!!! But at least I'll have peace of mind in knowing the truth.

If he is with her when PI follows him, I most likely will file for divorce or at least get a quick Plan B in place.

I realize that it's only been a week and a half since I confronted him. He's contacted her and lied about it for half of that time. I also hear that most WH fall off the wagon. At this point and all I've been through with him for the past year pluse, I don't think I can stay married to him if he sees her. I would be angry about phone contact and get tougher with him, but seeing her would be the nail in the coffin for me.

Tell Jennifer what you need to feel safe. My guess is that she'll suggest these things anyway.

I'm not sure if I'd put a PI on him right now either, others may disagree. I'm thinking your H is so manipulative that he may lay low with OW until the dust settles.

I'd even go so far as to pretend like you believe him for awhile and then put a PI on him when he feels it's safe to wander. Just a suggestion.

Don't make any rash decisions while feeling emotional. If your H doesn't do these things that you've asked, I'd go to plan B myself and use that time to decide if you still want to divorce.

KLD,

Excellent!!! I was just going to tell you to have the PI folow him for your piece of mind alone.

Also, his lack of anger means NOTHING! It's his lack of remorse that has me on alert.

His inability to sleep MIGHT be from guilt, but not necessarily because the A is over.

Also, one of the best pieces of advice I have seen on here
is to assume the A is still in progress UNLESS your H can PROVE it's not. He has given you NO proof whatsoever. He has not even been willing to do the very simple, logical things you have asked. ssume the A is still in progress. DO NOT GIVE HIM THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT!!! He is an accomplished liar and he will not just stop lying and hiding.

In my mind he still seems very detached from you. As if his mind is elsewhere(such as making plans and trying to figure out how to lay low till he thinks you are satisfied.) He doesn't sound like he is in WD nor does he sound truly sorry and committed.

I have been thinking about his reaction to what you consider your "meltdown". My H reacted in a very similar way MANY times while he was still active in the A. Each time he seemed sincerely worried and told me he would change his ways. HA!!

The A did NOT end until he was scared to death!! And then it was obvious from his behavior.

That said, I am leary about giving advice because our road is still rocky. I have no evidence of an A. And I truly believe there is nothing going on. Our situation is truly unusual though and I would have a hard time proving it at this point. But his behavior is NOTHING like it was during the A.

I am praying for a good session with Jennifer. Let us know.

Praying HARD for you,
WH2LE

KLD,

I agree with Mopey about Plan B. It would give you time to do things in a way that would insure your security.

Hopefully he is still just foggy. My concern really is his lack of fear about what you will do.

WH2LE

KLD,

My H also uses the tactic of turning my words back on me. This is controlling, manipulative and abusive. I call him on it every time now.

Your husband has developed a sinister habit of abuse. He is extraordinarily manipulative and honestly thinks you don't realize it.

If you decide to stay in your M, I urge you to DEVOUR the Patricia Evans books I previously mentioned, strting with "The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" It is a portrait of my H and I believe yours also. I wish I had read it years ago.

We have had no success with MB principles until recently. I finally realized that until this issue of verbal abuse is dealt with my H is incapable of POJA and PORH, let alone meeting regularly ENs and avoiding LBs.

God Bless You!!!!

You are doing a GREAT job!!!

WH2LE

Excuse me? He did what?! You now have no access to his bank account? That's reason enough for Plan B in itself, for me. He is counting on you being nice. At your expense.

I agree totally. Call that PI right now.

And I would write out a NC letter, leave a space for him to sign, and tell him tonight he either signs it or moves out. But that’s just me. I'm sure you know by now I have no tolerance for this stuff.

You're doing great, but I really wish you would stay mad.

KLD,

Also, please understand that "verbally abusive" does NOT mean screaming and yelling. It merely means abusing with words.

Some of the WORST verbal abuse sounds downright sweet at first hearing. That's what makes verbal abuse SO dangerous. It can be confusing. An experienced abuser can be quiet and withdrawn and even cries softly while saying things that are really cruel.

I agree with Cat. You need to stay mad. FOR NOW, he SHOULD be walking on eggshells and terrifed that they will break.

Praying,
WH2LE

hi kld,

just wanted to let you know i am thinking of you and hoping things will be working in your favor. you have been so strong and amazing thru it all.

a question - is there any concern of dh finding this thread and learning of what you are mulling about with us here? is he able to access your computer to find out where you go? i'm concerned he may visit here and get your inside info regarding your pi thoughts etc. this could work to his advantage imo.

wishing you all the best sweetie!

hugs ...

I'm hoping your call with Jennifer is(went) well. He did make it home in time right?

The call with Jennifer was different than I expected. She only talked to me for about 5 minutes first then spoke to WH for about 45 minutes. I don't know what was said exactly, but that she explained SAA concepts and gave him a plan for winning my trust back. His job is to share these things with me and for me to request anything I'd like to have added.

She said he does not have to send the NC letter because he told her he did it via text message and over the phone. Jennifer just cautioned him that he can't take her calls or respond to her in any way if she tried to contact him.

I don't know what the list of things he's supposed to do is. He said he wanted to think about what she said before we talk about it. He did say that it seems that this plan requires him to turn his whole brain, body, and being over to me and that he no longer will be allowed to have a life. I can see why the perception would be this when you first hear about the plan. He committed to listening to HNHN and LB on CD for 30 minutes each day until he finishes the book. I'm going to order them on CD today. I have the books already, but he's not a reader, so... He also committed to a second session next week where we will begin talking about our needs.

Since we had the session last night, I didn't want to get too deep into conversation on our own because he did have alot to think about. I don't know if he'll do anything in the plan or not. Guess we'll see.

If he doesn't go to dinner with his boss tonight, then it won't matter, anyway!

Mrs_n - I don't think he would find this thread, but I guess that's always a risk. He could get on my computer easily and see where I go. He does know that I post here. I don't know if he'd have the patience to find who is me, though my name is my initials, so that could tip him off!!!

KLD,
You mentioned you were on the phone for 5 minutes and Jennifer spoke with WH for 45 minutes, so were you actually on the phone at all when Jennifer told him he didn't have to send the NC letter? Or did your WH tell you that she said that? I am just curious because if that is one of the things you need in order to feel safe, you should probably let Jennifer know...afterall, you don't trust him because he has proven to be capable of lying to you, you have no idea what the text message he claims he sent actually said, etc...

Were you able to tell Jennifer any of your concerns in the 5 minutes you spoke with her?

That's typical of a WS, he can have a life, a MARRIED LIFE just not a SECRET ADULTEROUS LIFE...hopefully Jennifer can get that through to him.
You're doing great KLD, just remain vigilant.

Have you read this wonderful post by *Star*fish?

*Link*

KLD,

""He said he wanted to think about what she said before we talk about it.""

I seem to see a pattern developing here.

And why does thinking about it sound like such a COP OUT?

Last time he wanted to think about it, he almost got carpal tunnel texting the bimbo, right?

I trust this guy about as far as I can throw my Hummer.

(I don't really have a Hummer. I was thinking of the heaviest car available.)

kirk