Misssad - with all due respect to your psychiatrist, diagnosing someone without seeing and talking to the person is not the "most professional way" to go about things.

What your psychiatrist is calling a "sociopath" I would call being "self-centered" and sinful behavior.

In short, the problem seems to be more one of a "heart" issue than a "mental" issue.

I asked earlier about your relationship and your husband's relationship with Jesus Christ because THAT is where the "problem" of "who is in control of my life" resides.

Why is that? It's because the "issue" is one of a "surrendered life." It begins with surrendering our own "wants, desires, and feelings" to God if they are opposition to what God has commanded. That applies to you, to me, to your husband, to everyone.

If someone does NOT have Jesus as their own personal Lord and Savior, then THEY are the "authority" for what is "Right" and what is "Wrong" behavior in their life. Most often "feelings" are elevated to level of "contoller and enabler of my life and actions." The "feelings," in essence, "grant the person the right to DO whatever they want to do." Moral behavior becomes "relative," because an outside standard of behavior is rejected. Once an OBJECTIVE standard is rejected it is replaced with a SUBJECTIVE standard of the person's own choosing, and that "standard" is most often "whatever I feel like or whatever I can convince myself 'makes sense' to me, so that I 'enable' myself to DO whatever I want to do and am 'answerable to no one but myself'."

THAT is where I see your husband. You will have to think about how it applies to your life too and see for yourself what areas in your own life you are surrendered to God and what areas you do what you want to do regardless of what God may have said.

"Control" becomes the issue, rather than Servanthood to God and to our spouse.

With the extremely broad definition of "sociopath," a HUGE number of people can be made to "fit" within that description.

For me, all it is is a way to "classify" someone who is self-centered and a sinner. But if you "take away" the theological concept of "SIN" with the definition of "SIN" being established by GOD, not by Man, then all you are left with is a "need" to try to classify the behaviors of people that are based on the individual and their wants and desires being the "controlling factor" in their life.

I call that a "sin nature" that we are all guilty of because it has been inherited from Adam and Eve. It IS what we all "struggle with" our entire lives.

So WHO or WHAT "replaces" the "control factor" if it is NOT God?

Servanthood.

But someone can't be a servant if they also want to be the sovereign.

I'm going to try to "calm down" and control my anger at this sort of "psychobabble."

The basic "definition" of a Sociopath is someone who is a liar and who is not concerned about others, they are only interested in themselves.

That broad definition "fits" a whole lot of people, from salespeople who are only interested in "making a buck" to pathological liars to adulterers to slanders to the "worst of the worst" and even the "Best of the Best" from time to time.

By "definition" all Wayward Spouses are liars (they have to be in order to carry out adultery without the consent of their spouse) and are interested in getting THEIR "needs" met even if it is NOT with their spouse.

The definition of a "pervert" is something else. Can someone say that a belief that Adultery is "okay" is "pereverted behavior?" Yes they can. They can say the same thing about homosexuals, child abusers, spouse beaters, etc. But there is a huge difference between lying and being "self-centered" and a "mental illness."

What a Wayward Spouse engages in is a willful CHOICE to sin. They "know" right from wrong and choose wrong, in disobedience to God's commands and to their own wedding vows where they also (at that time anyway) CHOOSE to "forsake ALL others and keep myself ONLY unto you."

They follow their basic "human nature" and SIN.

We are ALL "sociopaths" from time to time, sometimes for a long time. The "answer" is NOT "group therapy," which is the usual psychiatric mode of treatment. The answer is "what is your relationship with Jesus Christ as your LORD?" If God is Sovereign and we are His servants, our DUTY is to obey, not disobey, what the Sovereign Lord commands no matter if we "like it" or not. We do not have the "right" to disobey and do whatever we want to do.

That is because "in Christ" we have been "bought and paid for" BY Christ and we belong to Him as His "bride." We submit our will to His will in a willing choice of servanthood.

It is THAT "sin issue" that needs to be dealt with in your husband. As long as he, you, me, anyone, will NOT submit their life to God through Christ Jesus, they WILL continue to "justify" sinning because it's what "they want."

"Take up your cross and follow me" is what Jesus has instructed all believers to do. It applies to forgiveness of hurts against us as well as to the choices to obey God even if our "feelings" try to tell us to "disobey."

This is precisely what the Apostle Paul was talking about when he said that even he has to fight against his own sin-nature.

"Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature, sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filty language from your lips. Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.

Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness an patience. Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity." (Colossians 3:5-14, NIV, emphasis added)




I'm sorry, Misssad, but this "doctor" does not believe in saving marriages. His "answer" is to divorce because he does not think that people CAN change.

Part of what he said is TRUE, but his conclusion is what I think is wrong.

Around MB we "preach" exposure of the affair, of bring the "light of exposure" onto the "darkness" and "secrecy" of adultery and adulterous behavior. The REASON for that is precisely to get the Wayward Spouse TO START THINKING about all that they WILL LOSE if they do not change their behavior.

Of course your husband feels "threatened." Of course ALL Wayward Spouse BEGIN recovery efforst because they "feel" threatened by the potential loss of everything. NO ONE starts recovery already "healed" and "well." That's no different from someone who has a mental illness BEGINNING to seek and receive "treatment." There is NO "instant cure." It IS a PROCESS, a JOURNEY, and it takes time, effort, learning, and changing for the positive where such change is indeed needed.

Of course, people, both Wayward Spouse and Betrayed Spouse will "be nice and apply all MB concepts" when they start out. That IS how "it works." They also begin with a ton of doubts and fears but TRY because they also KNOW that if they don't "do something," they WILL end in divorce.

I'm sorry, but I really get angry about this sort of "psychobabble nonsense" that your psychiatrist is spouting.




Misssad, those are NOT "untreatable" conditions. They can, and have been, treated very successfully and are not a reason for "hopelessness." Rather, IDENTIFYING the problem is where treatment and healing can begin to have a REAL effect. That IS the difference between denial of a problem and FACING the problem with the hope of a "better future" through WORKING on the problem to achieve the desired goal of health and restoration of relationships.

God bless.

FH, i agree that being close to God helps a lot to have the right actitudes, behaviours, outlook in life and so on.
But i do not agree that people who dont have faith or the same religious education that you or i might have, are destined to sin. No, there are lovely people who dont believe Jesus Christ is the answer to everything and they still choose to do good and manage to be faithfull to their partners and to behave normally.\
Sometimes staying in a bad M can cause huge trauma, it is doing it to me. My children notice it. It is unfair on them what they are going through seeing me so unhappy and unloved for years no end.
My H has been very sel-centered, u can call it sin or whatever but has not being cut to be NORMAL. It would be sooo hard to try and restore this kind of person, ihave tried too hard.
So, no , i dont agree that God is the essencial ingredient to make a M work, although it is very important

I feel i need to protect my children. Before i have ALWAYS thought that i was doing it by staying with my H. Now i dont anymore. I m confused ab what to do.
He has hurted me sooo badly i know i'll spend yrs suffering and checking his phones, computer, his life. I'll be wasting my life checking that he is not cheating on me instead of making sure my kids have a strong, secure and confident mother. I think they deserve that.
I dont feel i'll be able to stay strong living with my H, i just wont, i never have, why would now?

Missad,
I know how you feel. It will always be in the back of your mind...when the WS is late 10 mins, when they leave the room to talk, when they change their computer p/w. We, as spouses, shouldn't have to live a life of constantly wondering and playing the super sleuth. It would be hard to be that confident stable Mom to your kids. I have often thought the same thing.

I do agree that praying and God play a vital role. But if God isn't in your H's life, then what deep transformations could ever occur in his inner being? You can pray for it, but God will not supercede our free will. His son died so we could have it. He puts before us life or death the bible says. The choice is ours.

ok, back to what you are going to do. How is your plan A, or are you working on Plan B now?

Hi A
You must be careful about leaving your home. You do not want your WH to be able to file for divorce against you for abandonment. You could put your children at risk. Better to ask your mother to come to you. Do not do anything without proper legal advice.

Until you can get advice do nothing.

Misssad - then we have a very different idea about the "nature of man." I believe the Bible when it says, "ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

That "sin nature" is what we have all inherited from Adam and Eve.

God also has written His moral code on the hearts of all people, and people CAN choose to live as best they can as if in accord with those moral standards and they can also choose to "go against them" when they want to. That is the "double-edged sword" of the gift of Free Will that God gave us when He created us. Sin, any sin, is what separates us from God. It is NOT a situation of "works," of "living a good life" that results in our salvation. We remain, no matter how "good we are" by human standards, DEAD in our sins and lost, incapable of a saving relationship with God through Jesus Christ.




Yes there are such people. But that isn't the "point" with repect to being sinners and eternally separated from God without Jesus Christ as our personal Lord and Savior.




Of course adultery is a huge trauma. And you have the God-given right to divorce if you want one. But remember this, too. God hates ALL divorce. God wants repentance, forgiveness, and restoration of relationships....that is why He sent us Jesus despite the enormous "pain" of our sin(s) against Him.

There is nothing "fair" about adultery or the effects that is has. There is nothing "fair" about any sin. But what is taught to children has a lot to do with an understanding of what forgiveness and restoration of relationships is about, with God Himself being the model.



Yes, recovery from adultery IS "hard," emotionally. So is divorce. Nothing is easy.

Yes, YOUR trying to "fix" your husband would also be hard, if not impossible. But we are not talking about YOU "fixing" your husband, we are talking about GOD "fixing" your husband.

My stance with your situation is the very same stance that I had with my own marriage. IF there is going to be a recovery of the marriage, it MUST begin with the Wayward Spouse "getting right with God." If they will not repent and surrender their life to God, why WOULD they CHANGE and become a loving, responsible, marital partner?

God MUST come first for BELIEVERS.




And this, Misssad, is where you and I strongly disagree.

God is NOT "just important" to BELIEVERS, God is preeminent and IS the one most "essential ingredient."

It is NOT, "let's put God on a shelf somewhere and only take Him down and into our lives when it 'suits us'."

It is NOT, "Monday through Friday belong to me and whatever I want to do and Saturday and Sunday belong to God."

It IS, for believers, God is the center of one's life always, and God is the HEAD of every marriage. Jesus is the "bridegroom," and all believers are His "bride."

The ISSUE is submission of one's entire life to God in humble servanthood TO God because of what He has done for us, NOT because of what any other human did, or didn't do, to us.

If you are a believer, then you too must evaluate your actions and responses to sin against you in the same way that God evaluates forgiveness of your own sins against Him. Was it "easy" for God to forgive your sins? Not if you think that Jesus, who WAS and IS sinless, had to bear the awful price of God's judgment against sin FOR us. Not if you believe what Jesus had to endure for us was NOT "easy."

If you are a believer, then you have to sometimes "endure" the hard and painful times to "give God a chance" to work a miracle in your life and in your marriage. It depends, primarily, on how important YOU think God is for, and to, YOU. That was Job's position too and why Job is such an important lessen in trusting God through the really difficult and painful times, even when we are NOT "at fault" for the pain that is being visited upon us.

God bless.

But FH, he IS NOT a believer, then what?
We are talking different languages here. Are u catholic, what type of group do u belong to?. Im amazed, u would forgive EVERYTHING. I would too if i knew i wasnt going to become insane by doing so. And it would be really irresponsible for me to do that because i have to care for my 2 kids

M,
I'm Catholic and I know we have our "commit forever" thing.
But...
God does not call us to live a life of strife. That is not glorifying to Him of the beautiful life he gave us. If your WH isn't spiritual, then start by praying for that part of him to be revealed. Because really, only honest deep inner change comes from a willingness to change, introspection and in the case of those who *listen for it*, promptings of the Holy spirit. IMHO...

Misssad - Are you telling me that your husband is not a believer? If not, then you are in what is referred to as an "unequally yoked" marriage. God warns believers to NOT be unequally yoked, but if they go ahead and do it anyway, He also tells a believer in such a marriage how they are to perform their role in the marriage.




Who said I forgive everything? I have forgiven my wife. I have NOT forgiven her OM.

But assuming you were referring to my wife as the object of my forgiveness, I have forgiven her because she repented to God and turned back to God, and then back to me.

For me, my forgiveness of her was NOT dependent on how I felt, which was betrayed, hurt, devastated, angry, wanting to "punish" her, etc..

My forgiving her was dependent on MY obedience to God and His commands to ME, as a believer. God has said clearly, "if your brother sins against you seven times in a day and comes to you and says, 'I repent,' forgive him." When Peter asked Jesus if he should forgive someone who sinned against seven times, Jesus said to Peter, "Not seven times, but seventy times seven times."

Forgiveness is NOT optional, according to God, when the sinner repents of their sin. Refusal to forgive is being disobedient to God.

Now, you DO NOT also have to continue living with someone you have forgiven. You CAN get a divorce for marital unfaithfulness. But again, while God grants a Betrayed Spouse that "option," He remains very hateful of all divorce as He wants us to choose both forgiveness and reconcilition of a relationship that has been broken by sin, as He has done for us who have also sinned against Him.

God grants us the option because it DOES take a lot of submitting outselves TO God in order to do both forgive and reconcile. Far too many Christians are still in the "infancy" or "toddler" stages of their walk with God and they have not reached the "maturity in the faith" level to be able to make that choice. It's sort of like the difference between the way Peter was BEFORE Jesus was crucified and the way Peter was AFTER Jesus rose from the dead and reconciled with Peter, reestablishing their relationship and giving Peter and understanding of WHO Peter was committing his life to and WHY all the troubles that would come Peter's way were "miniscule" compared to His relationship with God.

God bless.

thanks for all ur help FH, im leaving for home on Wed. My sister will give me support. Please God everything will turn out the best way possible.
Best of luck to u and God bless you,
I'll meet u in heaven, pray for me that i make it there, cant wait to go to my Dad God and rest and smile

Hi A
Did you get legal advice before deciding to leave the marital home? I'm so worried about you doing that. Will he let you back? Even though you are Catholic and will never divorce (lots of us on MB are by the way), there will be nothing to stop him divorcing you if he can prove you abandoned him.

And then you will be the bad one.

Please be careful :-(

Misssad, how are you doing?