"We have to somehow find a way to KNOW it isn't us"

Mopey, this is so true. This site has helped me to understand this point and reading Harley's books has helped too. What seems to be my "block' is that I have spent since I was 19 with this guy. Two kids, raised his brothers five of them and took care during the years of his parents. Just feel so damned abused by doing all this for his family and him and got nothing in return. Not even a little appreciation. Yet, that is my problem I KNOW that. In the books I have read Harley clearly states not be a martyr or resentment will build. That was me he was describing.

As for your other question no I do not intend to stay in a loveless marriage or what has become a very unhealthy one for me and my youngest son.

He has clients and with his work he really has a lot of women clients and girls. Well BOUNDRIES has always been the issue. No getting close please. Listening to problems about their husbands or other problems is always his issue. He kicked a lady out last year because she pitched a fit because she didn't get attention she deserved and went nuts accused him of 'sleeping' with the other clients 'women' that were there at the time. She didn't say sleeping and told him off thoroughly so he kicked her out. Now I stopped to going to work with him in the first place BECAUSE I worked and he and this women would sit and talk. Talk about her family her husband doesn't understand what she wants, etc, etc. So I told him I won't tolerate it. Well a few months later he kicked her. Now this is just one example of BOUNDARIES to me.

Now another lady called him four days ago wanting her friend "the lady he kicked out prior" to come back to him. Now I felt the lady that called, was my friend but obviously if you send someone to your husband that you KNOW wants more than friendship she is not my friend. I have been just itching to call her and ask what the H*** she is thinking and since your not a friend of my marriage stay the H*** out of my life.

Well that was my first reaction. Then I thought better of it. It is not my doing, he has allowed all of this situation by perusing these kind of relationships with his so called clients. I cannot control his behavior only mine. So I told myself I am better than this and the past four days he asked what is wrong with me I am in a mood. That mood is not mad or hurt it is called fed up. He keeps making comments and finally this morning I looked at him and told him I don't give a damn what you do who you see or talk to. I am the furthest from caring what happens to you than anyone. That he is not even close to any kind of man I want to know. One that takes care of his family and protects it from outsiders , one who doesn't lie or cheat. Yes and went on to add that your like your father and when I took care of him NOT YOU but, me. Not one of your brothers came to see him and he was terminal. Not one came to his funeral. They all said he was so selfish and mean they feel badly he is dying but don't want to see him. That he has turned into his father. What a fine example of a man that legacy was. And then I didn't talk to him again. He has called me over and over pretending nothing was said. Yet, clearly he knows I am so over this shame of a life.
Looked today to find divorce lawyers and talked to my mother yesterday and my sister today about it. They were surprised I have waited this long. Well I wasn't ready and I am scared now but I hate my life like this so what else can I do.

I'm sorry things have been so difficult for you Ariana and things look bleak sometimes. But did you ask your husband to do the stuff with you that MB recommends to save marriages?

If you've tried, I can see why you're getting weary. He sounds completely wayward.

HI Mopey, yes I did and we read the HONESTY sections. The next day I found out he went to that girls myspace and had her login and password. Come to find out the whole time he said he had NC with her that is how they communicated. Yet, there is nothing going on. Just because there isn't sex!
I did a awful plan A and now I am just so shut down and tired not sure if I have any strength to do another. Trust is the most important thing to me. He lies so much and won't ever own up to his lies. His dad coming into play again. Dr Harley calls it independent behavior I call it being selfish and cruel.

I am reading love busters again now. Its just for me. To see how much I messed up <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yeah, we all have our own faults so it's good that you're looking into it. However, I for one know how hard it is not to LB when you're being lied to. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

So, if you have no desire to continue with a plan A, you do know what is next right? Plan B. Have you given this serious thought? I think it's better than going straight to plan D, unless you know that you're sure. But I think you still have a desire to have a relationship with him, IF it's a good one.

You need a plan. What are you going to do? What do you want to do?

"So, if you have no desire to continue with a plan A, you do know what is next right? Plan B. Have you given this serious thought? I think it's better than going straight to plan D, unless you know that you're sure. But I think you still have a desire to have a relationship with him, IF it's a good one."

Mopey, you have pointed out some very good points and I had to think about them and reread Dr. Harley's book. My H has just plainly rewrote our history. Now everything is always my fault his rancid remarks and total denial of what he has done also to contribute to the state of the relationship or I should say the lack of it.
Helping this week was a large mistake. I cleaned went and got all the feed. This is a big task plus he needed help running the cattle sorting doctoring. You name it I did it as usual. I have put my foot down the couple of months since there is no help at home from him or appreciation at all when I literally am so tired and sore from working at the ranch. After years of this two months ago I told him no. Well, I didn't stick with it.
Were out in a field with cattle just beautiful and his cell rings with that women and he informs she is picking him up to go to her house for some work. Every instinct told me to keep my lips sealed I did. Then I was told that girl can now come over anytime she wants to ride. That was it with me. I said no way not after all the lies and time you have done with our family. Well it went badly.
I now know from his answers he is going to divorce if they leave his business. Which leaves me knowing exactly where I stand with him and that is absolutely nothing. That girl is everything still. Its my fault for letting them come back thinking I was showing some grand gesture and totally believing in H. As my son said that is your screw up.

You need a plan. What are you going to do? What do you want to do?

What to do other than be nice but, not do anything for him with him. Just concentrate on my youngest son and myself. I would like for my marriage to work. Though my self esteem is hit hard by this. On the other hand working through all the words and deeds he has said and done don't know if I can and I cannot alone anymore. He has got to give something because I am worth being loved and cared for with respect and dignity that I deserve.