Well we can have a discussion about semantics and timing and what constitutes the end of Plan A and the start of recovery if you like Mimi.....

It's not MY PROGRAM. It's Dr. Harley's. Recovery begins after the NC LETTER has been sent.

I am a HUGE FAN of nc letters. [so are the Harleys] The letters are a good will gesture on the part of the WS towards the BS and tell the OP the affair is OVER. A WS cannot be "forced" to send one, and no one has ever suggested any such thing. Nor is it a GUARANTEE of anything; nor does it claim to be.

A nc letter SYMBOLIZES the WS' sincerity and commitment towards recovery. If it is insincere, it is worthless. But, it is ENTIRELY VOLUNTARY. No one can "FORCE" a WS to do anything. And no one has ever claimed it is a guarantee, it is only designed to be a good will gesture towards the BS.

This gesture is very important to many BS, and a good step in the recovery process so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it.

Dr. Harley
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

CHAPTER 5 in SURVIVING AN AFFAIR: "How Should Affairs End?"

My H was just like Kevin in that chapter, wanting to let the OW down easily.

Exactly like Kevin, my H resisted writing the letter, thinking that it would be "CRUEL".

As Dr. Harley indicated, THE LETTER HAD TO BE WRITTEN.."to completely close the door on her hope of a future relationship....

I ALSO NEED TO SEE HIM WRITE IT...

Eventually, I heard my H say it to her on the phone...

I NEEDED IT IN BLACK AND WHITE...

Mimi - I think we are actually in total agreement.

Great BIG K! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I am one of those that MEL is talking about. I needed that letter. I couldn't count on my H's WORDS for anything..for a long time..he even told me "MY ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN MY WORDS"...

I also believe that the NC letter is a crucial, not to be missed step...Mr. W and I did not initially think so or write one since the OM ended it very abruptly with me...We felt that we could skip this step...Fast Forward 9 months into NC, we had just returned from a vacation in Jamaica, the very next morning OM sends an email...At that point we sent a NC letter, realizing that by not doing so before that we had left a door cracked for OM...The letter took care of things...We've not heard from him again...Thank God!

Mrs. W

guys...

this is the way it is...
it is my personal thing about no contact letters..
AND as a guest at this site...

I keep my pie hole shut about that when directly advising anyone...
and certainly never tell them not to..

BUT
be sure that my heart breaks when I hear of people sending no contact letters very very early after discovery day....
AND
then come here and talk about continued contact...and should we write another no contact letter....

sad....

no contact letters have great meaning when they are written by the FWS who fully believes in no contact....
but when forced by a emotionally distraught BS and a WS doing damage control...

oy veh...

there is no controversy in my post....I would never ever advise someone NOT to do part of the program...
and even though myrev...wants to make my post so very lacking...I am only addressing one aspect of plan A and certainly not making in the only part or layer....

don't beg and grovel for no contact..is my point..
change your language and words so the hear the value and see the true destruction of it.....

and more importantly don't be shocked when you discover new recent contact...and post how you are ready to give and go to plan B....ten days in to the whole mess...

plan A very much addressed continued contact...with the goal being no contact...

my my these boards have changed....

ark

Well, you certainly seem to be spinning a different version now, but "IF" this is what you meant all along ... then I just misunderstood your initial posts, and agree completely with your current position as quoted above.

there's really no if..

all along I was and am addressing the aspect of BS demanding no contact with WS....

and my position that in plan A...it usually doesn't work that way....

that's one aspect of plan A..that has many many many actions to it.....

if I had a nickel for every BS lamenting why their WS didn't go no contact immediately....and that shortly after d day they are ready to go to plan B ...all because of contact....and or non commitment to the marriage from a WS..
i'd surely and sadly be rich...

there is no change in this version on my part...
I just didn't address allll the other aspects of plan A..

but lord knows I'm a huge plan A advocate....

on many many levels...

there is no spinning...since I have no agenda except to try to help...
there's no need to spin anything...

it's alllllllllllllllll opinion

ark

there are some FWS on here...others that I know (including my ex that keeps trying to weasel her way back into my life) that wished the BS took a stronger stand and made demands. I know for myself and a few others that until the demand of NC was made...contact continued. Some people just need to be shoved in the right direction.

It may not be the Harley way...but it works for some. I am not hesitant to recommend that push to someone if it appears as though it would help.

Although we did not know about the Marriage Builders books until a month or two after D-Day #3, my WH offered to write a no-contact email that I approved and we sent it while OW was on vacation.

When she read it, she assumed I had written it because, for some reason, it actually sounded more like I HAD written it.

Then I did my fake test from one of 'their' secret accounts (I then had the password for) and she did tell me/him "no, do you know how much this would hurt Ace", but she did not forward the email to me as I had begged her to after D-Day 2. I let it go, but cut off contact with her the following week (Labor Day).

Nearly 3 months later on D-Day 4, when I caught DH trying to see if she was on line playing 'their game' (and the history button said he was lying), I began to get nervous that she had not sent me that evidence back when I did the fake test.

So I sent her a snail mail card and handwritten letter (my H initialed each page), asking about the 2 calls we had gotten from her area code and if her H might know about my H and if might be trying to contact him/us or 'get him'. I asked her again if she would let me know if WH tried to contact her, explaining about the online game incident and she said "My grandfather said not to make promises you may not be able to keep."

I went nuts. I was nearly hysterical when I showed my H her email.

He set his jaw and said "let's send her a handwritten letter"....and he scrawled out a 3 liner. I sent it with a copy of HNHN with highlighted photo copies of certain pages. (I knew about the MB books and website, but had not discovered these forums at the time.)

She thanked me and seemed resigned to the fact that the future fantasy they had mapped out was indeed over. FINALLY. (Now, FWH says he is totally repulsed by the idea.)

Both NC letters were my husband's idea....even before we knew about MB. IF he had handwritten the first one, it might have been more effective as she was familiar with my emailing style from our 'friendly chats'.

Actually, my trying to be her e-friend played a vital part when we decided to expose 3 months later. In going back over her chatty emails, I discovered she had told me what her husband did for a living, and when I discovered his name, I could then do some searches to find his work address and phone number.

From our experience, I agree that a forced no-contact letter too early may be detrimental to the recovery process. But, as already mentioned, when the WS chooses to write/send one, not only does it show the BS that the WS has closure, but it slams the door shut on the chance of a future rekindling that my still linger in the OP’s mind. At least it did in our case.

Ace

I tell ya, I had to reply to this because of this right here:



I am not offering advice right now
just remembering what "it" was like, for me personally

sanity - completely shot after D day
felt insane
emotionally driven
standing in a puddle of my own fresh blood
it was so impossible to draw a breath, my lack of sanity was not possible to address
I was "code blue" .... I felt I was dying

dignity - I felt exposed to the world as a piece of human trash - I had been thrown away by my husband .... therefore, I am garbage
when one feels like garbage, dignity does not seem like a realistic obtainable state of being

emotional well being - I knew I was not well
so I suppose there was a sliver of sanity, I mean when you know you are crazy you are less crazy than when you did not know you are crazy.... right?

so, in remembering back to those days
I can see where this advice would fall upon deaf ears - someone who is in "code blue" does not care if their clothes are torn off and 20 strangers can view tattered gray underwear

but Arkie is not talking to those folks still in the ER after D day

I believe Arkie is addressing something different entirely

sanity
dignity
emotional well being

a BS who possesses the above qualities is far more attractive

than a BS who appears to be

insane
undignified
emotionally unbalanced

and the whole idea of Plan A is to be as Plan Attractive as possible

so we, as MBers can anticipate the newbie BS to be insane, undignified, emotionally wrecked

but once the BS is out of immediate danger they can be guided into becoming (once again) what makes them attractive as a spouse

and that includes shutting yer pie hole

translated to MB language
stop behaviors that are
demanding
controlling
disrespectful
undignified

and especially futile crazy-making

Has anyone ever tried to get a frightened animal (or child) to come to them?

think about what works

And Arkie - it has been at least a MONTH since I got to I&D something juicy

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I like that, as long as you don't offer candy or pats on the head :-)

Let me tell you about a strange NC letter situation.

I had someone I was working with whose wife had ended her affair, but was very hesitant to write a NC letter because she thought she would be made fun of due to the fact that the other man had dumped her.

So, she re-contacted the other man, got him interested in her again (no sex), then dumped him after 2 weeks. She then merrily wrote the no-contact letter.

She has some image problems :-)

Glad to see you posting, Pep.

Gimble

Glad to see you posting, too, Gimble. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

TA

Thanks! TA

Gimble

Does this advice pertain to plan B when divorce proceedings are about to start?I worry that he will take my silence as not wanting him back.Also I know my lawyer is going to be ruthless thats her reputation!He filed for divorce.

Glad to see all you experienced posters posting.