OK, this is a topic I've mentioned a few times here at MB's (but I don't remember seeing a thead devoted to discussing it though):

How the OW pretends to believe the married man's lies about how awful his wife/marriage is. Or how the OW pretends to trust the married man's lies about being single, separated, divorced (when he isn't).

For some mysterious reason this is one of the excuses employed by OW that sometimes gets accepted as if it were valid. I guess that's why it's such a popular excuse for OW to employ then, eh?

So I'm wondering... do most people REALLY believe that adult women are so easily conned? Or do OW belive that they can so easily con others into accepting this particular excuse for their involvement in adultery? And why is it so difficult for some WH's to accept that, just maybe, the OW who committed adultery with them didn't really believe the lies? That the OW had her own agenda and that the pretended ignornace/innocence was the best way to further that agenda for herself?

I think they just lie to themselves so that they can justify every horrible thing they are doing to another person. It's the same with a lot of things in life.

I actually think many women are that easily conned. There are some amazing dim bulbs out there who will believe most anything. Although, I am sure there are some who just don't really CARE and say they were fooled.

I think the latter was the case in my H's affair. She has the morals of an alley cat in heat [she is a married woman herself] and was HORRIFIED to learn my husband lied to her about being "separated." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Even so, when I confronted her with the truth, she dumped my H like a hot potato THAT DAY.

My apologies to alley cats... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Hi MEDC,

I can certainly understand how they can lie to themselves convincingly when they are still in the fog.

But why such a persistance after exposure has deprived the OW of her 'innocence/ignorance'? Why do so many OW still continue the adultery once the truth has been revealed? How do they manage to convince the WH of their supposed naive innocence then?

(However I did have proof with some of my WXH's OW that they knew the truth and were just pretending to believe my WHX's lies because that suited their agenda while making themselves look 'innocent' to my husband.)

"I think the latter was the case in my H's affair. She has the morals of an alley cat in heat [she is a married woman herself] and was HORRIFIED to learn my husband lied to her about being "separated."

Even so, when I confronted her with the truth, she dumped my H like a hot potato THAT DAY."

Was she really angry that she had been deprived of the ability to both continue the adultery AND pretend innocent/naive belief in your WH?

IMHO a major part of the WS/OP anger over exposure is directly related to the way it destroys the ability for the OP to pretend they actually believe the WS's lies, ESPECIALLY in the case of a BH and OW.

mm,

I have no idea what kind of percentages there are, but in terms of "knowing" I think there is:

*a percentage of OP who know the truth and don't care. They are conniving but present a false facade that they "didn't know" and are therefore innocent of guilt.

*a percentage of OP that "know" deep down inside but are in denial. The don't want to know. They do their best to just push doubts and clues to the real status down because it would mean ending the affair and they don't want to. They want to believe the fantasy. They are so foggy they just don't see what is plain to see. Their infatuation blinds them to the faults of the WS and they only see the rosy side of the affair....they believe because they need to believe.

*a percentage of OPs that really are gullible or immature and easily fooled.

I would imagine that a graph of these groups would look much like a bell curve....with the truly conniving and the truly gullible not as plentiful. The largest group would probably be the ones who believe what they need to believe in order to continue the affair. They deny their culpability, but denial is not a legitimate excuse. JMHO

I think her "moral" outrage was quite feigned and she was really thinking, "oh crap, I better get out of this while the getting is good because I am a prominent Indy dentist and this could be trouble."

Amen, starfish

I think that one can only speculate as to whether the OW believed the lies or not.

The thing is...does it really matter??? Does it MATTER if the BW or BH was really an abusive jerk?

When it comes down to it, it is the simple tactic of using another person's poor actions (truth or not) as justification for you own poor behavior...as if that somehow makes it okay.

It doesn't.

So I view whether or not the OP was stupid enough to believe it as irrelevant.

Maybe they WERE that naive and gullible.

Maybe they weren't.

Either way, their actions and choices have NOTHING to do with what someone else is or isn't.

As I stated on your other thread, I understand the sense of injustice you must feel.

To feel like you received consequences for WH and OW's choices while they used the justification that you were just a yucky mean person does suck.

You didn't receive those consequences because they believed that.

You received the consequences because THEY were being yucky mean people.

That is why I believe what YOU were or weren't is completely irrelevant.

If it wasn't whatever particular justification they happened to use, it would have been another.

It's really no more than immaturity. I mean, come ON...that's what children say when they're doing something wrong!

"Well, SHE did it!"
"Well, he was being mean to ME!"

A mature adult understands that they are responsible for their actions and choices and that someone else's behavior has absolutely no bearing on the choice they make for themselves.

I agree Star*Fish with your description of categories.

I think I would add another category though of OW who just don't bother to even check out what the married man is telling them.

And I think maybe that is the biggest category of all and the reason they don't check out the story of the man they get involved with is because they don't want to know the truth and thereby be deprived of their adultery and/or pretense of innocence.

We're not talking about 2-year old, or evern 12-year old females here... They've heard of the possibility of married men lying and cheating before.

Because the reason they were committing adultery had nothing to do with what they believed about the other person.

If I were a man and I had a female acquaintance who said she was abused by her husband and I chose to have an affair with her, would that really be any better than having an affair with a married woman who was not abused by her husband?

Would ANY circumstance have any bearing on the kind of person I was???

I don't think so.

It's an excuse and if someone is looking for an excuse, it's not hard to find one.



Because people who are living a lie don't really care what lie they use. Any lie that is convenient will do.

I think you nailed it.

So if most OW don't know the truth BECAUSE they don't want to give up either the adultery or their pretense of innocence, then what I don't get is why so many BH's feel the need to defend the OW? Why is it so hard for the BH to acknowledge that the OW really did know or suspect she was being lied to but just chose to not investigate futher?

I would guess that the reason has to do with getting honest with themselves about just how horrible their actions were.

It's projection. They might be defending the OW, sure, but I suspect the person they are really trying to defend is themselves.



Because admitting the ugly truth about OW would be to admit that the same ugly truth applies to them as well.

I think one thing that really bothered me about my WXH failing to get it that the OW weren't really so sweet and innocent is that was also a failure to defend and protect me. When I read posts here where there is a recovery attempt but the WH doesn't want to 'hurt' the OW by sending a no contact letter, I really feel for the BW. Because the WH is choosing concern for the OW's feelings over his BW's feelings.

And it's all so needless because MOST LIKELY the OW never really believed the BH's lies anyway.

And IMHO a BH who hasn't yet realized that the OW was only pretending to be conned by him, and was actually thereby conning him, is still too much at risk for falling for the same or another OW's con job, still too likely to play knight in shining armor for a decpetive OW pretending to be a damsel in distress.

I couldn't agree with you MORE, meremortal!!!

I can totally see why you would feel betrayed by that...because that is precisely what it is.

I think this is true, Froz.

Which might sound less horrible?

I hurt my family so I could be with this icky person or I hurt my family so I could be with this nice person?

If the OP sucks then what does that say about the wayward spouse who chose the sucky OP?

Since my W had the A, she was an OW.

I heard lots of stuff about Mrs Meat being insecure and abusive of RM, but I don't think I ever really believed it. I also feel very strongly that my W wanted 2 believe these things 2 justify her behavior - not consciously, because that would imply a deliberate attempt 2 undermine our families, and I don't believe she really wanted 2 do that.

Now, I have no absolute knowledge of whether Mrs Meat was insecure or mean, or whether RM was feeding my W lies (which is really a ridiculous thought, when you look at it - of COURSE he was, whether HE was doing it consciously or not).

In the overall scheme of things, particularly recovery, though...

...this whole discussion amounts 2 little more than an exercise in mental mas2rbation 2 me.

I love my W. I love my family. I'd like 2 hold it 2gether rather than dwell on things that might still have the power 2 rip it apart, if I let it.

-ol' 2long

At the risk of many 2 X 4s, I'll put this out there.

My oldest DD was conceived out of wedlock. I found out her bio-dad was engaged (and got married) about 1 1/2 months before DD was born. I was young and foolish. I was also wrong for the fornication. Sometimes, age
is a player in stupid decisions.