OK, once the gig is up and it has been revealed that the motive for the WH to tell such negative lies about the BW/BM (Betrayed Marriage)was the adultery, I'm wondering why so many OW and WH's, even after the adultery has ended, sometimes still pretend those lies about the BW were true?

Is it some sort of residual fog or just embarrassment that prevents them from admitting that the nasty things they said about the BW in order to cheat weren't really true?

I would like to hear from other BW's about this. (OK, let's hear from the TRULY FORMER WH's and OW too - BUT I don't care to hear from those still in the fog of justification.)

Did you feel it had to be a condition for reconciliation for your BH to tell others (the OW, his family, etc.) the truth about you?

Did you find out that even though the adultery had ended and you reconciled with your WH that his family and friends STILL were under the false impression that you actually were as wicked as the adulterers' claimed?

Did your WH and his family/friends continue to percieve you as the villain who was so awful that you drove your poor WH into an OW's arms?

Did your WH fail to defend your honor/feelings while he continued to defend the OW's honor/feelings?

And what about the OW: Has she EVER admitted any awareness that it was doubtful you were ever as awful as the WH described? Or does she continue to spread negative rumors about you? Oh, and does she do so while pretending remorse for what she did or that she is a FORMER adulteress?

I'm curious as to what you are going through this morning? You have started three threads all with what appears to be a common theme.

Hi MEDC,

I am actually feeling pretty good today - THANX for the concern though!

My WXH's inability to tell his family that all the awful things he said about me were mostly lies is one of the many reasons our marriage ultimately failed.

I have had some problems with two of my three daughters recently with them now seeming to believe their WF's justifications for the adultery/divorce. But I am becoming increasingly better at responding to those sort of comments from them. I really just don't get it how once the adultery has ended, the adulterers STILL pretend to believe the lies they told? That's just wierd IMHO. I mean the gig is up already.

Also, I live in a smallish to medium-size town and occasionally hear the ugly rumors OW spread about me (and probably never will say anything to dismantle). Not that I am surprised by that or let it bother me most days. I'm just curious why some WH's, and even fewer OW, ever get around to doing the decent thing in regards to the nasty rumors they spread about the BW?

But it's not just in regards to my own situation; I've noticed it's sort of rare for even a reformed adulterer to let go of the complaints they used to justify the adultery, and to admit the betrayed had some positive qualities. IMHO that tendency should cause the BS to worry about relapse.

These related topics have been something of interest to me for some time, partly because they seem to be an aspect sort of overlooked. I have brought them up briefly a time or two before but I don't think I've seen threads actually devoted to discussion of them. I was interested in this before I even came to MB's and have actually wondered why it doesn't come up more often here so I thought it was maybe time to bring it up myself.

Hi MM
We went through something like this recently. OW#2 contacted WH out of the blue (A#2 ended in 2001). He could not speak to her at the time and told her to call back the next day. He told me about the contact. I suggested that when she called back, he tell her that he wanted no contact with her ever.

He refused, claiming that there was no reason to 'hurt her feelings'.

<lol>

I believe he is saying that he does not want to acknowledge to her that he was not the victim he claimed to be at the time but was actually an adult making bad decisions for selfish reasons.

Perhaps if he (they) can get to this point, there could be some recovery?

MM, did you tell your DD's the truth about their father's adultery? And that adultery IS WRONG? Because I can tell you that my mother DID NOT, which left us vulnerable to my fathers lies about my mother. My father lied and condemned my mother for years, leading us to believe that he had to leave because she was so MEAN.

In truth, my dad ran off and left my mother with 3 little kids, age 4 and under,while she pregnant with my sister so he could chase women and drink all night in bars. He never paid child support.

I was well into adulthood when the lightbulb switched on and I saw the REAL SCORE once I had all the facts. When the lightbulb switched on, I felt nothing but shame and sorrow for blaming my mother all those years. I APOLOGIZED TO HER AND THANKED HER FOR STANDING BY US THROUGHOUT OUR LIVES. My heart was broken when I found out the truth.

I'll bite.



I would guess that primarily, the reason is that once you accept something someone says as fact, you accept another and another. Before long, you've formed a perception about that person.

If someone were to find out that just one of these things they accepted as fact was a lie, often they still hold on to the perception they formed of that person as a whole, instead of questioning whether the entire perception may have been inaccurate.



Probably that, too.

It somehow feels a whole lot better to think that you've been cruel to someone who is not a nice person than to think you've been cruel to someone who was kind.



No, but I don't think there was a lot of smearing done in my situation because almost no one knew about the A.

If that were the case, I don't imagine that I would make it a condition (depending on the circumstances, of course), but I definitely understand the sense of injustice you must feel.

I have been in similar situations before.

With a group of our friends, my H painted the impression of what things were like between us as less than accurate in order to make himself look better. Because of that, these friends made conclusions about me that weren't fact.

In my situation, my H did admit that he hadn't been completely honest. Nevertheless, instead of taking that little bit of information and questioning whether or not their whole perception of me was built on similar inaccuracies and that possibly the false information they had led to them to judge me unfairly, I think most of them still held on to their original perception, minus the one or two lies he corrected, if that makes sense.

What I am trying to say, meremortal, is that even if he were to come clean, their opinions of you might not change. Sometimes it just has the opposite effect and it only makes him look better and as though he is trying to defend you.

It sucks to have people make judgments about you.

The conclusion I have come to is that people who will make those sorts of judgments about me without giving credence to the fact that there just may be an alternative explanation or another side to the story are not people I desire to have close relationships with.

I can't control their opinions of me. The harder I tried, the more unsuccessful I was and the more it seemed to appear as though I was just being defensive about what they had already decided was The Truth.

For this reason, I always try to be mindful when forming impressions about people. I tend to avoid drawing absolute conclusions unless the conslusion is based only on MY interaction with that person, rather than heresay.

When someone is talking to me about their spouse or another person, I take into consideration that the information they are giving to me is based on THEIR perception and I don't automatically assume that it is fact.

By the same token, when I share information about someone else with other people, I try not to state my perception as fact because people DO tend to form judgments from statements like that.

I think it is extremely wise (and rare) that people actually go back and question their entire perception of someone the way Mel has done here.

And I'm glad she did because inaccurate perceptions can cause tons of damage to relationships, as Mel has pointed out.

This incident has trained me to not form conclusions when I am not CLEAR about the facts. About half the facts were before me, clouding my vision, so I jumped to an inaccurate conclusion about my mother because of my fathers false portrayal and my mothers silence. Not fair to her at all. And I deeply regretted it.

I understand your regret.

However, please keep in mind that you were a CHILD and that the person you were receiving information from was your parent.

So I hope you won't be too hard on yourself.

Hi Melody,

"MM, did you tell your DD's the truth about their father's adultery?"

Oh YES! And actually they already had expressed that same POV immediately themselves when they found out.

In fact oldest daughter suspected something and started verbalizing disapproval before her father even moved out. I have no proof of exactly when the PA started but WH did admit once (then later denied he'd ever said it) that his infatuation and flirtation with the OW started a long time before she agreed to 'date' him. (He had to lose about 60 pounds first, cut his hair, buy a whole new wardrobe, start working out, and oh yea - dump his wife and kids first... then she rewarded him with sex). He was showing major mid-life crisis signs, saying really bizarre stuff, having rage issues, and refusing to spend any time with us long before he moved out.

One night we were at a baseball game, two daughters sitting in the audience and I was working in a concession stand with the other parents from their synchronized skating team. He saw daughters and briefly went over to say hi to them. He 'explained' that he couldn't sit with them because he was there with 'friends' from work. Of course daughters saw through that excuse immediately and knew it translated to him being there with an OW. Later that evening some of the other parents on the team told me they saw him with a much younger woman and a toddler... On a break I went to check on my kids, not yet knowing they already knew their dad was here with an OW, and they blurted it out to me right away: "Mom - Dad is here with some 'friends' (rolling their eyes) from work!" I had actually planned on leaving early since WH was there with an OW and hoped to protect my daughters for seeing that. By some miracle, none of us ever laid eyes on the OW and WH that night. But at some point in the evening some of the other girls from the skating team had spotted WH and the OW together too and had told my daughters.

Since WH had sent me a 'romantic' poem by e-mail just a couple days prior to that ballgame, all about how much he missed ME (not just our daughters) and how he thought we ALL should spend time together BUT that he had a 'new friend' who treated him 'so nice' I at least had some confirmation before that night. Of course them ending up at the same place that night was a shock to me. AND I don't think it was exactly by accident either... WH was still on the skating team's e-mail list at the time so apparently knew we might be there. (BTW, my daughters made sure their coaches knew they wanted total control over whether or not their dad was invited to their skating events after that!)

My daughters were so vocal about understanding that adultery was wrong that at oen point my WXH tried to use that as 'proof' that I had 'brainwashed' them! He said it was wrong that I had taught them that and that it should be part of my homeschooling them to teach them that what he and OW were doing was OK! Daughters thought that was ludicrous at the time... but now my youngest daughter has adopted an attitude that she will never marry and that everyone cheats, and that it's not really that bad...

"I believe he is saying that he does not want to acknowledge to her that he was not the victim he claimed to be at the time but was actually an adult making bad decisions for selfish reasons."

Exactly! And by doing so, it continues the myth that you were so wicked or defficient or whatever as a wife that his adultery is STILL justified. So it just makes it more difficult to trust again. I mean how can there really be recovery if the evil lies told to excuse harming you are never dismantled?

And then there's the whole issue of the WS pretending that they 'sacrificed' their 'soulmate relationship', gave up beig with a supposeldy superior mate, to selflessly return to the 'undeserving' BS. Instead of the BS getting credit for standing by their WS and giving them another chance, the WS can spin it to get credit and even sympathy form others who believed the BS bashing. This actually happened with my WHX's inlaws. I found out that my WH had continued to tell negative lies to his family years after adulteries about how bad I supposedly was, how unhappy I made him, and they were giving him sympathy for having given up an OW to do his 'duty' to his 'unappreciative/undeserving' wife and kids!

So continued BS bashing is interpreted by me as evidence that the fog isn't gone yet, the recovery is still shaky at best, and just compensation is certainly not happening yet either.

It has become a very important issue to me; I don't see any benefit of either the WS or the OP persisting in bashing the BW and in fact find it horribly offensive and a major deterrent to genuine recovery or repentance.

"When someone is talking to me about their spouse or another person, I take into consideration that the information they are giving to me is based on THEIR perception and I don't automatically assume that it is fact."

I guess part of why I have such a hard time understanding this is that whenever a married man tries to complain to ME about his wife, I shut that conversation down right quick like! Even if I have seen some evidence myself that his wife really does have some of the problems he's complaining about, I don't want to hear about it. I have actually told a few guys that I was going to go tell their wife if they didn't stop putting her down (and sometimes followed through). But usually it was VERY EASY to get a married man to immediately stop bashing his wife in front of me.

Maybe I'm just hypersensitve about this and MOST women will listen to a married man put his wife down without realizing how wrong and risky that is?

I am actually quite insulted when married men try to put their wives down to me. I am offended that they might be thinking I'm so lacking in intelligence or morals that I would fall for that! I make certain they get it that I most certainly am not that sort.

I also do NOT like to be flirted with by married men. But again, maybe I'm unusual? (BTW, some men refer to my 'unusualness' as being 'b....y' LOL I guess most of the women they bash their wife to and flirt with reward them somehow and they are shocked when it doesn't pay off that way with me?)

It is horribly offensive regardless of whether or not you are working on recovery or repentance. And I do think people eventually come to see this. A few close relatives of my W-STBX's OW who have actually called OWH to offer support long after D-day as a result of a particular Thanksgiving dinner in which W-STBX and OW invited a bunch of them to their home and spent the evening bashing OWH and I. These relatives had been firmly on OW's side, believing her lies and even offering assistance to the new "couple" to get on their feet in their new place. Despite all that, they were so grossly offended by their behavior that they felt compelled to make amends with OWH.

This hasn't quite happened to me - W-STBX's family lives out of town and even he doesn't see them often. But I know for a fact that one of his brothers has yet to speak to him since he first told him his batch of lies.

Meremortal, if there is the slightest bit of BS bashing by the WS than that couple is nowhere NEAR recovery. That is NOT recovery by any stretch.

Why do WS persist in bashing the BS and trying to blame them?

Simple.

Because if there's nothing wrong with the BS, then the WS is just a lying, cheating [censored]. And there is NO WAY they will ever admit to that - not while still an active WS.

Of course, we know that even if there is a LOT wrong with the BS, anyone who would use that as an excuse to cheat is a lying [censored], too. But I digress.

Meremortal, the WS blames the BS because otherwise the WS would have to blame themselves. Anyone who feels entitled and arrogant enough to cheat and lie in the first place is NEVER going to blame themselves.

And why do these men (because at the moment we are talking about men) bash their BWs to their OWs?

Because it is a HUGE HUGE HUGE ego-boost to these (very stupid) women to know that this married man is ignoring his wife for HER. Boy, she must be really really special and ever so wonderful for him to do THAT for HER!

That's the gift my husband gave to his girls at work every day, and I will never forgive him for that. Never.

Any woman who is so cheap that she would sneak around with a married man will ADORE him for treating her in what she thinks is such a very special way. He knows this. It makes it real easy to get in her pants. That's why he does it.

It's hard to believe so many woman can be so stupid, but I've seen way too many of them. They're everywhere.

Hope that answers some of your questions, meremortal.
Mulan

"These relatives had been firmly on OW's side, believing her lies and even offering assistance to the new "couple" to get on their feet in their new place. Despite all that, they were so grossly offended by their behavior that they felt compelled to make amends with OWH.

This hasn't quite happened to me - W-STBX's family lives out of town and even he doesn't see them often. But I know for a fact that one of his brothers has yet to speak to him since he first told him his batch of lies."

Good for them! As far as I know nobody in my WXH's family has indicated to him that they don't approve of his putting me down. One SIL told me when my WH visited all the relatives were sitting around the table putting me down and how she 'stayed out of it'... I would have preferred it if she had spoken up in my defense. (BTW her staying out of it was interpreted by my WH as 'everyone' supported his adultery.)

Ahhh...the infamous "I'm on YOUR side but didn't want anyone to be mad at me for speaking out."

Personally, I find that such a wishy-washy stance and hold the firm opinion that not taking a stance IS taking a stance.

Unfortunately, it seems to be pretty common.

"Ahhh...the infamous "I'm on YOUR side but didn't want anyone to be mad at me for speaking out."
Personally, I find that such a wishy-washy stance and hold the firm opinion that not taking a stance IS taking a stance.
Unfortunately, it seems to be pretty common."

It is pretty common and unfortunately whether their intentions were to deprive the adulterers of support or to stay neutral IMHO it amounts to supporting the adultery.

How can you possibly be neutral by just keeping quiet whan a horrible thing has been done? I don't know how so many people think that way.

I remember the same SIL reacting to a discussion the relatives were having about a controversial issue once. She just sort of tut-tutted and left the room. That's what it sounds like she did when they were all bashing me. And I have NO IDEA what she really felt about that controversial issue... maybe she agreed with the consensus and was tut-tutting in agreement with them? Or maybe she disagreed with them but didn't want to debate with them? Actually it mostly came across to me at the time that she thought it was sort of distasteful to even discuss the topic.

I sure wish she woudl have let my WXH knwo that she did not support the adulterty and was concerned about how it was affecting us... but she preferred to let him draw whatever conclusions he chose for her minimal reaction...

I wasn't going to intrude on your thread, but when I read this ... sheesh! He actually thought he'd be able to tell you to teach your kids that adultery is ok?

Kudos to you for having instilled morals so they didn't depart from them... too bad the youngest was young enough to be influenced. Maybe it's only temporary.

And its first cousin the equally renowned - qui tacet consentire videtu - "silence is agreement."


I agree with you - Choosing to not make a choice is a choice.

Does it count if there was a strong inward turmoil of disagreement even if the outward actions gave no sign of it?

Probably not.

As it has been noted, that action/inaction by the SIL didn't do much for the BS who was being pilloried. And it didn't do much for the crowd around the table who continued in their false accusations that went unchallenged by truth.

I guess the individual's battle between inner beliefs and the fear of failing to conform to the surrounding peer/group pressure continues past our school years. {shakes head} Sad really.

Yep...holding approval in higher regard than your values/morals.

I guess that would alter your values.

I actually witnessed that IRL myself a few days ago. A co-worked confided to me that her sister (divorced) was having an affair with a MM. This co-worker wanted the BW to know, but wouldn't expose because she didn't want her sister to be mad at her.

That is a shame, I think.