There are several of us on here in various stages of Plan A and we're not quite sure how or where/when to set boundries? And what type of boundries? and What else should we be doing to not enable our WSs to continue there nasty affairs? And to keep them from having their cake and eating it too??

HELP!!!!

This would depend on the type of boundary being crossed.

Do you have give me a specific example(s)?



Basically, any behavior on the part of the BS that makes it easier for the affair, disrespect or LB to continue would be enabling.

The way to remove enabling (or set boundaries) without LB'ing is for the BS to avoid attempts at controlling the WS - thoughtful requests, allowing the WS the freedom to make their own choice (even the wrong choice) and to use boundary enforcements that focus on your protection and limiting the amount of damage to yourself, rather than focusing on changing the WS's choice as a method for limiting damage to yourself.

((((Serenity))))

Good to see you are alive....lol...

THANK YOU *THANK YOU* THANK YOU *

For posting this question as I have the same one...and I am in desperate need for this to be address...

so come on VETS...help us drowning Plan Aers out with this......

not2fun

Ultimatums get confused as "boundaries" all the time.

Here's the difference in a boundary I have set:

as an ultimatum:

as a boundary:

On one hand, there is a threat, one that I'm not prepared to enforce. The other is about what I can or can't live with and what I'm going to do to make sure that I have a livable space in my home.

Yep...need examples...

ok...not to hyjack Serenity's thread, but I can give examples.....

...needing to know if he is in contact with OP
...his need to take his phone calls outside (I call them his secret calls)

some of us newbies are confused by what VETS mean when they say "set boundaries"

not2fun

ALWAYS ASSUME THAT THE WS IS IN CONTACT WITH THE OP UNLESS YOU HAVE EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY!!

KNOW that they are always in contact..

There is NO NEED TO ASK about this...

Say what you do and do not like...with assertion: "I know you are going outside to talk to her and that makes me feel____" Say this CALMLY yet ASSERTIVELY. DO NOT DEMAND but STATE YOUR TRUTHS.

Make your communications about YOU..with NO ASSUMPTIONS about what the WAYWARD is FEELING and DOING..that's what makes the communication DISRESPECTFUL...

Remember: YOU ARE ONLY IN CONTROL OF YOUR OWN THINKING AND BEHAVIORS....

Serenity,
This is a great question.

VETS, What do you DO...what is the ACTION behind the request...

like saying I know you are going outside to talk to OW on the phone and this makes me feel....disrespected, angry, easily replaced and hurt.

So then what? What if the WS doesn't stop the behavior? What if they only find a way to hide it better?

Seren, if you are like me, then you are wanting to know how to get it to stop, not by controlling the WS, but by enforcing consequences by this continued behavior.

Am I in the ballpark?

not2fun, I noticed you mentioned needing to know about boundries on another post... and I've been wanting to know... so don't consider it t/j, ask away, I'll learn something from your questions as well.

Anyone else who wants to ask... ask, don't mind me, this is a "shared" thread.

for my question... yikes... I'm a prude and don't even want to type it out... but it has to deal with SF... taking ones health into consideration of course!! Should there be a boundry? or is it accepting crumbs or enabling or something else?

The KEY is to take the focus off of HIM...ACCEPT that the affair will be continuing..and FOCUS on YOUR PLAN A...FOCUS on YOURSELF and what you can DO...

In other words, YOU cannot MAKE HIM DO ANYTHING...

Mimi is right. You can only control yourself. Dr. Harley himself says that you cannot demand that the A "stops or else ___." All you can do is tell them how it makes you feel. You must assume the A is ongoing until a NC has been written by WS, approved by you, and their life is an open book (willingly). Anything else comes off as a demand that will be met with anger. Even if they did (reluctantly) agree to your demands, it would be done with a great deal of animosity towards you. You will appear very controlling to their little selfish selves (barf) and will create a longing for the OP for even longer (double barf). They must come to this conclusion on their own.

As far as SF, I would say "As long as you continue to engage in a physical relationship with another person, I cannot put my own health at risk. Until you end the A and are tested for STDs, I cannot have SF with you." Very calmly stated, of course. Anyone would understand why this is necessary, even a WS. If they get angry, tell them you do not wish to control them or fight with them, but you must protect yourself and your health.

Hope this helps...

I agree with Mimi.



Spot on.



I find it helpful to think of boundaries in the visual sense, like a property line that separates my property from everyone else's.

Add to that visual a gate that you can use to let the good things on to your property and escort the bad things out.

YOU decide which things you want to let in and which things to let out. If someone else is doing something that you find harmful or hurtful, often the way that people try to accomplish protecting themselves from it is to try to get the other person to stop - some forms of doing this are begging, manipulating, angry outbursts, selfish demands, disrespectful judgments, etc...

In reality, that isn't boundary enforcement. Using the visual I described above, that would be like going on to THEIR property in order to try to keep yours safe. That is not an effective method because...

It means that in order for your property to be protected, you have to rely on something that you have no control over - another person.

The best boundary enforcements are progressive.

For example, if someone speaks to you in a manner that you find rude and disrespectful (let's say they yelled at you), if you were to immediately use a last resort boundary and end your relationship with them, you might soon find that you have ended all your relationships with EVERYONE.

If someone "puts something on your property that you don't like", a good first step is a thoughtful request.

The model that Mimi used is a great example of a thoughtful request. Stating your request using "I" messages is a great way to communicate because it avoids disrespectful judgments and does so in such a way that allows you to take responsibility for your own feelings, likes or dislikes (part of your property) without blaming the other person (infringing upon their property).

Using "I" messages also avoids invalidation by the other person.

If the other person continues to cross your boundary, you can up the enforcement to something stronger. This time, it could be something like, "I feel offended when you yell at me. I am not willing to have discussions with you if you are yelling at me. I would be willing to continue our discussion when you are willing to speak respectfully to me."

And if they continue, perhaps they follow you to the other room..."I have already stated that I'm not willing to discuss this until you speak respectfully to me" and then you can get in your car and leave.

Some more progressive boundary enforcements using that example would be refusing to live in the same house with someone who continues to be verbally abuse until they are willing to seek professional help.

That is just one example of progressive boundary enforcement.

This is effective for several reasons. One is that it keeps the focus of control on something you can control...yourself, as opposed to trying to control someone else because it gives them the CHOICE in how to respond.

Another is that it removes ENABLING because it allows the other person to experience consequences for their choices. Trying to control someone else, LB'ing them or other ineffective methods rarely work because typically, YOU are experiencing the consequences...not the other person.

Attempts at control will not cause someone else to change...but often consequences WILL.



If it is something you don't want on your property, you have the right to determine you aren't okay with it and yes, to enforce a boundary.

I'm bored.

Somebody come back and talk about boundaries with me, please!

Mimi, Res and Frozen, thanks for your reply to Serenity.

I liked the gate visual...and the progressive responses when they don't quit the bad behavior.

I just handed over my Plan B letter last night and didn't hear diddly-squat. Don't know if he's read it yet...maybe he will agree and doesn't even care anymore.

His LB'ing made me enforce consequences to the point of a restraining order, but that was 3 months ago and we went to court and had it changed to a no-contact injunction. That just gives me a safety net in case he starts his temper, but in the meantime we can be around each other for drop offs and such.
So he started coming back over and spending time with us, which made me hopeful. But I see now it was actually cake eating on his part. Lots of fog babble over the holidays.

I so wish I had gotten on here when the A first happened when I was pg with our son. I prolly would have saved myself a lot of heartache if I had followed the MB way initially.

That's actually some pretty impressive boundary setting, Free.

It was a very hard decision. Trust me, it didn't come without a price though.

He moved in with his ex (the OW) that very night, b/c he "didn't have any other place to go". "She did me a favor" he says. Oh I am QUITE certain she was very happy to have him.
He used this Injunction to justify, justify, justify being with her. He is so clueless. That was mid-October.

He did find his own place, on Dec 5th, but I know they have had RELATIONS since then and have done things together. She cooks him dinner all the time. It truly makes me ill to think about.

My WH did the follow-me-around-the-house thing. I tried so hard to sit and listen, but when I tried to speak he said I was interupting, and then when he yelled, I would yell back (bad LB!) When I walked out, or would take off in the car, he said I wasn't listening, which is one of his #1 reasons he claims for turning to the OW.

That was our Cycle of craziness.

Free:

Are you saying that he claims that he has turned to someone who will listen to him RAGE? That's BS...

Do you think he has felt DISRESPECTED by you?

That's different.

I'm gonna BUMP an old thread of mine from last year in which I got help with this issue.

Yes, he claims to feel disrespected by me, that I don't listen to him. I will read any threads on this topic, thank you.

But I have made such an honest effort...I've done the "repeat what he says back to him" thing and it does not work with him.

We even tried to use a buzz word to stop us in our tracks. It was kinky-popo. lol! Actually he used that more than I did. miracle!

He has a flaring temper. There was a hole in wall, one in our bedroom door, when I tried once to escape his yelling.
I used to yell back, then it all went down the crapper. So I tried ignoring. One time he pulled the covers off me when I was trying to sleep/ignore. He even followed me in our baby's room when I was trying to get away and sleep in the twin bed in there.

Then I tried repeating dialogue. We went to a MC twice and learned this from her.

I think his low self esteem contributes more to him feeling disresepcted than anything. That, and the fact that I owned the house we lived in as a married couple. Bash to ego. My suggestion was that we re-paint every room, get new-to-us furniture. I even spent $300 on a new comforter set when he was in the throes of the A. I did Plan A b/c I was in love and desperate for him to throw me a bone.

Plus he lost two jobs - one due to downsizing, one due to outburst. And then in Oct he got a DUI.
Nice.

There's lot of valuable information on the thread entitled PERSONAL RECOVERY..

The HELP I got here was a real turning point for me..

Your situation sounds a bit different..cause my H mostly TALKS in a loud voice...doesn't break things, etc.

I had to LEARN how to LISTEN to him...

We've come to a compromise..

I tell him when his voice gets TOO LOUD for me to be able to LISTEN..he didn't understand the effect it had on me because of my past issues...

It wasn't so much WHAT he was saying as HOW he was saying..he assumed that it was WHAT he was saying that bothered me...

But the more intense he feels..the LOUDER his voice would get..

And I would either FIGHT BACK by YELLING..the communication between us, of course, would stop..OR, I would FLEE, avoid the topic and do what I wanted...NOT GOOD...

Now we've learned to REALLY COMMUNICATE...when discussing CONFLICTUAL issues...

I know precisely what you mean.

It seems to me that there are very few truly win/win boundary decisions in life. In my experience, most of them have boiled down to making the determination of which is the LEAST crappy.

But then again, I suppose if that weren't the case, there wouldn't really be a decision to make. It'd be a no-brainer.



What a kind, thoughtful person! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />



I think I understand.

What it *sounds* like to me is that you were dealing with someone who doesn't accept consequences.

You enforce a boundary in a respectful way, and he views it as an LB (or disrespect).

It might have been more helpful for him to state specifically what he is perceiving as disrespectful.

Because walking out of the room or not listening to him while he is angry outbursting you isn't disrespectful. It is allowing yourself not to be disrespected.