W-STBXH took with him a box full of our old tax forms etc when he moved out. I've asked for them back a number of times. He kept saying he would give them to me when I needed them to do my taxes. I'm starting to get T4's in now and I've got a few new complications this year so I would like a little more time. I've asked him for them again and now he refuses. He says he'll give me my assessment form and that's it. He wants to keep all the other forms together just in case we get audited. Here are my main problems with this:

1. He is in possession of my financial information. True, his name is on these documents but so is mine and I really don't want him to have them.

2. OW is in possession of these documents. At least, they are at her house. I don't want her to have access to the information and especially don't want her to have access to my SIN number which she probably already has memorized anyway.

3. I DON'T have access to these documents and they would be really helpful for me to do my taxes this year.

Is there anything legally that can be done about this? I'm giving him one last chance and then I'm calling my lawyer but is there anything I should know in advance? Thanks!

Not sure if you are in the US -- but if so then you can order copies of past returns from the IRS. If you had a paid preparer file your forms on your behalf, they'll probably give you a copy for free. Probably not everything in your box, but a start.

I don't think you can prevent your spouse from keeping a copy of forms that his name is on; though I would think you could compel him to give you a copy. You should be able to request this in discovery if one of you has filed for divorce.

You could ask him to meet you at a copy center so that you could make copies. That'd be cheaper than legal manuevering and lets him keep the box he wants so badly.

You might want to make copies of other key records now; especially if he still has access to your home.
- WG

Thanks. He's long gone and the locks are changed so he has no access to my house. All of the legalities are complete. I suspect one of the reasons he refuses to give me even copies of these things is because he doesn't want to divulge certain financial information. I had discovered that he had been siphoning the joint account in the year prior to D-day, possibly longer (that's as far back as I could go in the records). He denied it, but the evidence is there and that money had to go somewhere. Even if I find it, there's very little I can do about it anyway.

I'm just wondering if I can am legally entitled to these documents? Is it possible to get a court order for him to release them?

Tabby,

You probably can't get the money back, but it does show his fraudulent nature. Before I divorced my ex, I found that she had her sister set up bank accounts in the sister's name, and the ex would siphon our money into that account. Then when we divorced she had her father help her hide assets. Here I gave her the lions share, and she just wanted more.

At this point I just figure let her have her blood money, it will come back to her.

I'm pretty sure I can't get the money back and frankly, it's not worth going after it. In my case, I got the lion's share and I don't think he could have taken enough to offset it so it would not be in my best interest to try. However, he is a liar and a cheat and for whatever reason that is beyond me, he continues to attempt to maintain his lies long after they've been proven to be just that. I already know the money left the account, of that there is indisputable proof. I just don't know where it went. Whereever it is, it can't have helped him too much as I know he and OW are up to their eyeballs in debt and still sinking.

Well, sounds like he is getting his just rewards.

Perhaps you did this, but if it was a joint account, the bank should be willing to give you duplicate records. They may charge a not-so-small fee for this.

In our discovery phase I requested WW's financial records. She basically did not comply. So far she hasn't received much negative consequence for this. It isn't worth it for me to pursue.

I was able to get duplicate records for the previous 18 months from one bank and 12 months from another for free. I initially did this to try and figure out how much our bills cost as he did all the finances and I was going to be taking over the house. I discovered some rather curious cash withdrawals of $1000 or $2000 at a time. In one month, he withdrew $4000 in cash. This was shortly after we had received payment from the insurance company for the car my son had totalled - this is probably why I didn't notice so much money missing. When I confronted him about these activities, he told me he had used the money to pay down our line of credit at another bank. So I went to that bank and got the previous 12 months worth of statements. He didn't make one single payment other than the minimum, which was interest only. I also checked the payment records on his truck on which he did make one extra payment but that was it. When I confronted him again, he made a whole bunch of other excuses, including that he bought a bike for my son (for $4k??? - I don't think so).

One of the reasons he gave me for "not loving me any more" was that I spent too much money on my horse. That was something we had fought over for years and it was always a source of stress for me - I did everything I could to keep the expenses down and did without a lot of other things so that the horse wouldn't seem to be such a financial burden. I should also mention that I've worked very hard over the years to advance my career and didn't even buy the horse until I was making close to double his salary. It was still common for him to insult me because I spent too much money. He didn't care how much I earned - never once congratulated me for a promotion or a raise or even when I got the really awesome job I have now. It was all about what I spent. So when I analysed the bank records and it turns out that he spent nearly twice as much as I did each month, not even including the mysterious thousand dollar cash withdrawals, I confronted him on that too. In fact, this was one reason I abandoned any attempts to save my M, because he'd clearly been lying to me and using me for many years, even about matters that had nothing to do with OW.

I'm actually better off financially now without his income, depsite the fact that all my bills have either stayed the same or increased (lost multi-vehicle insurance discount, mortgage payement went up etc.). The difference is even more than can be calculated from the records that I have so it's pretty obvious he's been raiding the account for a long, long time.

Wow. And he expected you to just be ok with it.

Tabby, one thing I found about narcissists and users - they generally accuse you of what they are doing. It's an attempt to throw you off track, and is mostly successful for them, as we just want to get along. Interesting that the ovespending is what he was doing, yet he accused you of it. Sounds just like an ex-girlriend, which is why she is an ex.

Neat people - you are so much better off without him!

Thanks Set_You_Free. I know I am better off without him. Doesn't stop the whole thing from hurting - it's just one more things I hate about him. I keep thinking I'll feel better when his house of cards with OW comes crumbling down. According to OWH, she's a spendaholic and she doesn't make 1/3 of my salary so it shouldn't take too long before they start to crumble under the strain.

I'm hoping for the same, yet learning to not count on it. I have to learn, and am, to move on with myself. Happiness is so much easier that way! Not easy, but better.

Good luck.

WSTBX still refuses to hand over the papers and is stalling on making copies for me. To complicate matters, OW and OWH got into a scuffle over the weekend for which I was blamed (long story). WSTBX has left messages on all my phones that I am never to contact him again and that he is through communicating with me for good. That's fine with me, except I still don't have my papers.

I spoke to my lawyer today. He can write him a threatening letter but he said there really is no recourse if WSTBX doesn't respond. The courts won't give time to this matter unless I'm actually being audited AND he's destroyed the records, in which case he can be charged. I'm pretty sure the records are intact. The cost of this letter will be $500, plus anything additional if there is any response or back and forth. At best, it might scare him into thinking there will be some consequence if he doesn't hand them over.

So, do I fork out the money in the hopes that it scares him into action? This would be a last ditch effort - if he doesn't respond, there's nothing more I can do except wait to be audited. I don't know if he'll take such a threat seriously or not - OW has been getting away with murder by simply not responding to OWH's lawyer. In fact, this was the very stall tactic they used to move away with OWH's daughter. On the other hand, if I do nothing, I'll never see things papers again and I really need them to do my taxes this year.

I'd contact the IRS for copies, since they are your returns. The IRS won't charge you $500, nor will they give you the grief the ex does!

One thing I have learned - don't do things (like ask for something the can say no to) that give them power over you. They have shown they have no sense of decency, and only like to hurt you. Don't give them the chance.

I can get a copy of my tax return from the gov't, but they won't give me copies of all my T4's and receipts and all the stuff I am supposed to keep in case I get audited. If I get audited and he still fails to give me this stuff, I get charged, but I can sue him for damages. Exactly to what extent this ruins my life in the meanwhile, I'm not sure. I.e. I could go to jail first, then sue him later.

Hmm, I would suggest, not that this is easy, but not worry about the audit stuff. If you haven't been audited in the past, there is little risk of it happening in the future.

As for the receipts, after three years they can't audit you anyways, but that only helps after two years from now. I would imagine they would go after him for the receipts, since it was a joint return. For your protection, I would keep copies or logs of your communications asking for them, just in case it ever becomes necessary to show who had possession of the receipts. You know, if he later claims you had them.

Jail is not a real possibility, the IRS likes money too much, and they can't get that when you are in jail.

I just wouldn't ask him for the info, since it is apparantly just a game to him.