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Thought I'd start a new thread for the new year. And supposedly we're in NC for "real" this time...

We are now at two weeks NC, and I know this is going to be a long difficult process, but I'm struggling mightily with the day to day WD process.
WW hasn't had contact with RB in two weeks, but that is really the only difference right now. She still thinks I'm controlling, and is still firmly entrenched in the justifications and re-writing of history, and of my bio, that she created while actively engaged in the affair. She is still spiteful and passive agressive. I've almost bitten my tongue completely off...

I have read several threads here recently addressing the Wayward spouse not letting go of their warped sense of reality, even long into "recovery".
I believe that as long as WW is in the A Fog, that recovery cannot begin regardless of how long NC has lasted. Does anyone agree with this?

Oh, the "Nightmare" thing,
I had another nightmare last night. In this one I was basically just frustrated with WW's continued blaming and anger toward me, and in the dream was on our livingroom floor essentially just thrashing and wailing in emotional pain. basically reduced to a helpless broken man. My wife woke me from this because apparently I was hyperventilating and sobbing in my sleep.

I awoke and was basically sobbing almost uncontrollably. Around the time I awoke, I heard my darling 2yo son in his room, and the emotions just came over me. I couldn't stop sobbing and tearing. It took literally 10 or 15 minutes before I could gain my composure. This is clearly not my intended behavior, but it was so difficult to stop.
WW asked what was wrong, and I simply said it was a bad dream. She did attempt to comfort me and asked if I wanted to talk about it. I said no. (I'm trying to do no relationship talk, and wasn't really in any condition to start down that road at that point).

I think what was so emotional was having this "nightmare" and awaking to the realization that the nightmare didn't end just because I woke up.

I am just having a hard time with the sinking feeling that even if WW achieves lifelong NC with RB, that she will always harbor resentment and angry feelings toward me.
Will she always blame me and hold on to the warped perception that she has used to define me during her affair?
I understand why a wayward would almost have to create a fictional version of their Dear Spouse during the affair in order to soften the guilt and shame that should be directed at themselves. But what are the chances that this inaccurate perception will fade completely away with WD and recovery?

In 9 years together we prided ourselves on not only not having dirty laundry between us, but more importantly, never discussing anything negative about each other with anyone or in public.

Now, as a result of her selfish hurtful actions, her mother, her best friend, RB (and who knows how many other former co-workers), her friend who lives in our neighborhood (who incidentally isn't interested in sharing babysitting duties with WW since she talked to her about RB), even some guy (Myspace OM) that I don't even know, have all been fed this "controlling husband" bs, and who knows what else during her warped justification cavalcade...

I'm sorry. I'm ranting at this point...
I guess I'm just looking for a little encouragement or advice regarding this.
Anyone out there?...

Also, I'd like to add links to my old posts to my Sig line, and can't figure out how. (Yes I DID have a car with an 8-track player in it...) Some technical assistance would be welcome.
Thanks for listening. I look forward to the thoughts...


BH(me): 40ish
FWW:(ILMH) 28yo
DS 3yo
Married 7yrs
Together 10 yrs

??? Spring '07 - Adultery Begins
8/25/07 - 1st D-day (week of our anniv.)
8/07 thru 5/08 - About a dozen D-days/Gaslighting/Flaunting/Fake Recoveries

She finally quit on...

1/1/08 - First real NC attempt(Maybe?)
3/1/08 - Told me OM is an A**hole.(Hope?)
5/3/08 - D-day (Admitted to PA once)
5/4/08 - Latest D-day(Finally confessed to multiple EA/PA in our home)
5/8/08 - Present
Struggling to hold on

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Hey buddy,

Will she post???

Worked well for us.


Think of it as a behavioral support program. There are many people here that understand her confusion and conflicting feelings.


Mr. Wondering


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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signature thing -

Your signature can only contain a limited amount of information. Links actually take up more space than just text (if I remember, I type them into a preview window like I'm posting and then copy the link into my signature....much easier if you just memorize the silly colon, forward slash, bracket, etc. codes, I guess.

Then keep paring it down until you figure it out.

Trial and error.

Mr. W


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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Mr. W!
Nice to hear from you.
I don't think she will post at least at this point. Her way of dealing with this so far has been to avoid and ignore. She says that if we keep talking about it it will be harder to get through WD. She has said she's not ready yet to dig into the Harley books etc. I'm focusing on the "yet" and hoping that day will come soon.
Not sure if this is just an attempt to sweep it under the rug, but I'm willing (again) to ride it out and see what happens. We ARE at a new NC record I think, so, it's scraps, but I'm trying to be optimistic...
I am struggling a bit with the idea that not discussing anything might be giving her the impression that I'm just going to let it slide and she can remain in her vindictive state.
This is not the case, but I do feel a bit on eggshells regarding how to bring up boundaries and my expectations without LB'ing and getting back into the same old mess we've been in.
I guess I'm just not sure how to know when it's appropriate to start addressing these things with her.
I know I'm not going to wait forever. But I want to give her some space and a chance to get through WD. I am being a good husband and doing what I can to keep her comforted. Tough as that is.
We did go out last Friday night and had a pretty good time. WW ripped it up pretty good, and it's definitely a good thing I was there with her.
She must know that I am truly her protector, no?
Thanks for checking in.

Do you think the Mrs. might give another "out of the blue" call to WW? For what it's worth, I think WW likes and trusts Mrs. W, and believes what she says, based on her similar situation. I feel a bit sheepish even asking. You two have already gone above and beyond, and I wouldn't ask, but it seems to help WW, and indirectly I guess, My son and I as well.


BH(me): 40ish
FWW:(ILMH) 28yo
DS 3yo
Married 7yrs
Together 10 yrs

??? Spring '07 - Adultery Begins
8/25/07 - 1st D-day (week of our anniv.)
8/07 thru 5/08 - About a dozen D-days/Gaslighting/Flaunting/Fake Recoveries

She finally quit on...

1/1/08 - First real NC attempt(Maybe?)
3/1/08 - Told me OM is an A**hole.(Hope?)
5/3/08 - D-day (Admitted to PA once)
5/4/08 - Latest D-day(Finally confessed to multiple EA/PA in our home)
5/8/08 - Present
Struggling to hold on

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Quote
Do you think the Mrs. might give another "out of the blue" call to WW? For what it's worth, I think WW likes and trusts Mrs. W, and believes what she says, based on her similar situation. I feel a bit sheepish even asking. You two have already gone above and beyond, and I wouldn't ask, but it seems to help WW, and indirectly I guess, My son and I as well.

"She" would be GLAD to!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Tonight, I'm pretty down for the count...I have a MISERABLE cold thanks to Mr. W! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> Tomorrow is kinda nuts...Bible Study in the A.M., then Doctor's appt for me, then doctor's appt. for DD...Hopefully the next day will provide an opportunity...Email me her number again...I had it on my cell phone and it may have been erased by now! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W


FWW ~ 47 ~ Me
FBH ~ 50 ~ MrWondering
DD ~ 17
Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered

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Quote
I believe that as long as WW is in the A Fog, that recovery cannot begin regardless of how long NC has lasted. Does anyone agree with this?

Yes, I believe this also, and I just addressed it in a post earlier today. My foggish mindset went on for months. I thought I was doing everything possible for DH to recover. I couldn't understand why he couldn't just let it go. Every time he brought it up, I felt he was doing it to punish me. I truly could not understand why we were spinning our wheels when we both were trying so hard to recover. The problem, I now realize, was my mindset. I held on to those justifications up until last month when I came here. It was only then that the vets here helped me to realize that I had no justifications for what I had done. That no matter what the state of our M was b4 my A, there were a million other ways that I could have handled it. This site has been our salvation.

I don't know how long she will feel this way. I don't know if there is anything short of her coming here (or speaking to the Harleys directly) and figuring it out on her own that will bring her around. I DO know that WD is a long and difficult process and I am sad that you are just now at the beginning of it. Especially as bad as you are hurting now. I really hope you can find the strength to weather the storm, though, because things will be a ton better on the other side. It's almost like you are in the eye of the storm. You have gone through the first round of horror enduring the A, now you are sitting in the eye, and even though you know the A is over (at least so far), you also know that the other half of the storm has yet to hit, and will possibly be worse than the first half. SO, my only advice would be to batten down the hatches, prepare for the other half of the storm, and weather it as best you can.

I am very concerned about you. I know you are just coming here and letting everything out so that you don't do it in front of her, but I feel the emotional pain that you are enduring, and it makes me very sad. W2S also had horrible nightmares for months. I feel his pain through yours and am once again reminded of the devastation that I have brought on our M, and especially to him. From the very beginning I have reached out to you b/c your story reminded me so much of what we have been through and I've tried to help you as best I knew how. Through my posts to you and toomuch and various other people, W2S and I have begun to rebuild much of our former partnership and I have finally been able to let go of my anger and actually feel the pain of what I've done.

I hope you can hang in there...I know that if she can come to grips with the reality of it all, it will be a huge step towards beginning recovery. After all those months of spinning our wheels, it is only now (for the past few weeks) that I feel our true recovery has begun. My thoughts and prayers are with you, Try.


Peace,
LaLa

FWW(me) 37
BS 38
DS 9 & 5
PA 7/06-8/06
Dday 2/17/07

Fogapalooza-My Babbly Beginning
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PS-Sorry for being such a downer!! I just had a rough night which I will post about on my thread.

Hang in there buddy...you are stronger than you think!!


Peace,
LaLa

FWW(me) 37
BS 38
DS 9 & 5
PA 7/06-8/06
Dday 2/17/07

Fogapalooza-My Babbly Beginning
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"I believe that as long as WW is in the A Fog, that recovery cannot begin regardless of how long NC has lasted. Does anyone agree with this?"

I don't know how helpful this will be... but IMHothe answer is sort of both yes and no.

Yes, FULL recovery can't be achieved as long as the WS holds unto the justification that the BS is totally to blame for the adultery. And it would be very difficult to rebuild trust if the WS could simply point to the BS's mere mortalness, lack of perfection, as a future excuse for adultery.

But I do believe recovery can begin before the WS is completely out of the fog. The BS can make Love Bank deposits and if the WS stays away from the OP, if there is no contact, the WS should show eventually defog enough to stop using those old justifications...

I guess because it's not advised to make too many conditions on the WS in the beginning of recovery, and to not bring up the adultery too much, there has to be some level of yet unearned trust and patience?

But at some point (but probably not before the addiction withdrawal is gotten through) it is reasonable to expect the WS to give up the justifications and blaming.

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Mrs. W,
I'll text her # to you on your phone.
Thanks SOOOOOO much for your help.
No rush. Take your time and get well.
I hope you feel better soon!


BH(me): 40ish
FWW:(ILMH) 28yo
DS 3yo
Married 7yrs
Together 10 yrs

??? Spring '07 - Adultery Begins
8/25/07 - 1st D-day (week of our anniv.)
8/07 thru 5/08 - About a dozen D-days/Gaslighting/Flaunting/Fake Recoveries

She finally quit on...

1/1/08 - First real NC attempt(Maybe?)
3/1/08 - Told me OM is an A**hole.(Hope?)
5/3/08 - D-day (Admitted to PA once)
5/4/08 - Latest D-day(Finally confessed to multiple EA/PA in our home)
5/8/08 - Present
Struggling to hold on

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 537
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Thanks Res, MM et al....
You can't ever know how much you're helping me get through this. I can not thank you enough for reaching out to me (us).

Another thing I struggle with is knowing that in spite of the low down dirty hurtful things RB has done, that she still obviously has feelings for him.
I guess I can't get too wrapped up in things that are beyond my control, but it hurts and it sucks none the less...

FWW's did your opinion / feelings towards OM change with WD? If so when? Was there an epiphany or just a gradual lessening?
I know it's probably different for everyone, but a little hope would serve me well right now. Don't worry, reality is always welcome as well...


BH(me): 40ish
FWW:(ILMH) 28yo
DS 3yo
Married 7yrs
Together 10 yrs

??? Spring '07 - Adultery Begins
8/25/07 - 1st D-day (week of our anniv.)
8/07 thru 5/08 - About a dozen D-days/Gaslighting/Flaunting/Fake Recoveries

She finally quit on...

1/1/08 - First real NC attempt(Maybe?)
3/1/08 - Told me OM is an A**hole.(Hope?)
5/3/08 - D-day (Admitted to PA once)
5/4/08 - Latest D-day(Finally confessed to multiple EA/PA in our home)
5/8/08 - Present
Struggling to hold on

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,560
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Mine was sorta gradual, although there were periods of pure hatred. He pulled so much crap even above the obvious. I cannot believe the restraint my DH showed. Would you believe that even after OM was told that my DH knew what had happened, and was threatening to out him to his W, he still waited 4 months to send my stuff!! That was 4 months of pure HE11, let me tell you. And it went a LONG way towards showing me what a scumbag he was. However, the fantasy the wayward spouse creates in his/her head is POWERFUL. I realize now that it has very little to do with the OP, and much more to do with the fantasy and the need to suppress the guilt. I still cannot believe it after all this time. Don't even know who I was...I would have never even let a FRIEND treat me that badly....


Peace,
LaLa

FWW(me) 37
BS 38
DS 9 & 5
PA 7/06-8/06
Dday 2/17/07

Fogapalooza-My Babbly Beginning
My Story
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How long do you think this period of treating me like an enemy might last?
I get really upset when I think that with each passing day more and more people who may be getting spin from WW and from those she's spun to may be relaying damaging untrue perceptions about who I am and whatv type of person I am.

EG: She has a play date set up for tomorrow with a lady who she used to work with ( she still works with RB), I like her, and I know that WW has confided somewhat in her about our MC. My assumption is that she has told Friend that I'm controlling and that's the reason for our MC. No telling what sort of BS she might be hearing from RB at work regarding me / us. The little affair conspiracy that's been promoted throughout this is that I'm the problem, am crazy, and WW has done nothing but support and promote this idea.

Do I talk to her friends to give the other side? Does this just look like sour grapes? I would like everyone to know what type of scumbag RB really is. WW still defends him as having really just been a "friend". Makes me sick...
I would still like to expose to RB's workplace as this is where his inapropriate advances towards WW began, but am unsure what this will accomplish other than RB possibly taking out a restraining order on me. WW doesn't work there anymore, but does have other friends who do which makes me uneasy at the least. Especially considering how I have, and am being painted in this.
With just a couple of facts having been reversed by RB, ( that WW was the one who initiated the advance, that she pursued him, etc) he has his defense set, and has his wife snowballed as well.
I just don't know what to do. This is really taking a toll on me, and I don't know if/ how I can discuss this with WW right now.
In her current mental state, even mentioning anything related to this, including how I am feeling, seems like an attack to her. She is defensive and I believe unable to process the information logically. I think it might just make things worse regarding her WD.
I am certainly not trying to attack her now, nor was I ever trying to do anything other than protect her, spare her embarrassment, and keep her from spiraling in to a self destructive state. Didn't work, as she's only grown closer to RB in the last few months.
I hesitate to discuss my feelings with her as I feel like in some ways we are progressing, and I don't want to lose the ground we've gained. But this is really killing me and I know I can't keep it to myself forever.


BH(me): 40ish
FWW:(ILMH) 28yo
DS 3yo
Married 7yrs
Together 10 yrs

??? Spring '07 - Adultery Begins
8/25/07 - 1st D-day (week of our anniv.)
8/07 thru 5/08 - About a dozen D-days/Gaslighting/Flaunting/Fake Recoveries

She finally quit on...

1/1/08 - First real NC attempt(Maybe?)
3/1/08 - Told me OM is an A**hole.(Hope?)
5/3/08 - D-day (Admitted to PA once)
5/4/08 - Latest D-day(Finally confessed to multiple EA/PA in our home)
5/8/08 - Present
Struggling to hold on

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Try-you cannot discuss this with her right now. Dr. Harley also advises against it, and says it will do just what you have seen-push her closer to the OM. IMO, anything realted to that job must fade away, as it will do nothing but reinforce her false representation of you as controlling. People don't care about the truth quite often, they just want drama..preferrably someone else's. And really-who cares what they think? Your wife and your M are enough to deal with right now without all that other mess.

My first suggestion to you would be to move. Is this possible? She already left that job, and I am not sure (can't remember if you told us) what you do, although I think it has something to do with accounting...? Getting away from your current area may be in everyone's best interest.

As to how long she will feel this way, noone can predict that. What I can tell you is that the more you bring things up, the longer it will drag out. I'm very serious about that! All you can do right now is be still, control the things you can control, and let go of the outcome (as Mr. W would say). I know that you are not very accepting of this idea because you have been hurt and it is counter-intuitive to sit by and do nothing. You want to "put your foot down" or tell her you aren't going to put up with her crap anymore, etc. But this is where you have to really look at the future, and focus on the prize. You have a beautiful son who is depending on you to be strong, and to be the one who holds the family together. It may be a while b4 she can be the person you married again. I'll tell you what I told 14....

PUT THAT FOG BABBLE FREQUENCY ON IGNORE!! Please stop listening to her. Just go about your business, try to engage her in happy, small talk, don't talk heavy R and A talk (this is soooo important). I am telling you, it will do nothing but work against you. She is not going to be receptive to it, and will see it as an attack every single time. It will push her farther away. You have seen this for yourself. There will be time for those talks down the line, but it sure won't be any time soon. Can you accept this? If not, it may be time for Plan B.

Have you spoken to the Harleys? I know Mrs. W has spoken to your W and may again soon. Let her handle that aspect-but you should still call the Harleys. I would also suggest reading (or re-reading) all of the material on this site to reinforce your resolve. Remember, this stuff goes against traditional thinking and how we are programmed from a young age (that's why your every instict is screaming-get your sh*t together, honey, or GET OUT). So going over the material several times may be the key. The MB plan has more success than any other, though, so obviously it works.

Do what is in your control, and let go of the rest...for now. Can you do that?


Peace,
LaLa

FWW(me) 37
BS 38
DS 9 & 5
PA 7/06-8/06
Dday 2/17/07

Fogapalooza-My Babbly Beginning
My Story
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I can and will try harder.
It's just extremely difficult.
I don't mean to imply that it's a 24/7 Sh*tstorm with her. There are moments, glimpses of her thoughtful, caring self. I am just worn out from this lengthy ordeal, and need to try to see some light at the end of the tunnel. I guess for the time being I have to realize that my subterranean course is long and winding, and just continue to trudge along.

Thank you again for your concern and kind helpful thoughts.


BH(me): 40ish
FWW:(ILMH) 28yo
DS 3yo
Married 7yrs
Together 10 yrs

??? Spring '07 - Adultery Begins
8/25/07 - 1st D-day (week of our anniv.)
8/07 thru 5/08 - About a dozen D-days/Gaslighting/Flaunting/Fake Recoveries

She finally quit on...

1/1/08 - First real NC attempt(Maybe?)
3/1/08 - Told me OM is an A**hole.(Hope?)
5/3/08 - D-day (Admitted to PA once)
5/4/08 - Latest D-day(Finally confessed to multiple EA/PA in our home)
5/8/08 - Present
Struggling to hold on

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Posts: 1,560
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Welcome, and I cannot imagine what you are going thru. I promise you when this is all over, she will see you as her hero, just like I do with W2S.

I realize you are not walking around yelling and threatening her, and that you use us to vent. That's why I am trying to steer you in the right direction with NO R and A talks. That's gotta be a hard pill to swallow!!!!


Peace,
LaLa

FWW(me) 37
BS 38
DS 9 & 5
PA 7/06-8/06
Dday 2/17/07

Fogapalooza-My Babbly Beginning
My Story
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Posts: 537
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Thanks, LaLa.
It is a doozy.
I think part of what's difficult is knowing(hoping) that this will pass and that we'll get through it. The uncertainty of what the future holds is difficult.


BH(me): 40ish
FWW:(ILMH) 28yo
DS 3yo
Married 7yrs
Together 10 yrs

??? Spring '07 - Adultery Begins
8/25/07 - 1st D-day (week of our anniv.)
8/07 thru 5/08 - About a dozen D-days/Gaslighting/Flaunting/Fake Recoveries

She finally quit on...

1/1/08 - First real NC attempt(Maybe?)
3/1/08 - Told me OM is an A**hole.(Hope?)
5/3/08 - D-day (Admitted to PA once)
5/4/08 - Latest D-day(Finally confessed to multiple EA/PA in our home)
5/8/08 - Present
Struggling to hold on

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 261
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I, for one, appreciate the input I'm reading here. I feel like I'm in the same place, TTH, just can't stop wanting to talk about everything and convince my W of everything that I know is right.

I see the same results though....everytime I talk R or A, she gets distant and unhappy. But everytime I allow her to tell me that it's over (and many times I'm too accepting of allowing her to do it....I need to brush up on my reverse babble!), then she seems happy.

It is a tough way to go through the day, knowing that you can snap her out of this....but also knowing that the right thing to do is to NOT push her.

If you learn any good advice through your experiences, please let me know too! Best of luck and stay strong!

ILA


Male 34 (1st Marriage) WW 32 (2nd Marriage) Met 7/02 Moved In 10/02 Married 6/07 EA D-Day 1/5/08 PA D-Day 1/8/08
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TTT...

Hang in there. And thanks for this thread. I am in same place (well kinda, sorta) and hearing all the good advice you are getting is helping me. I wish I had some good advice to go with it, but alas, since I am still learning, I don't.

Keep your chin up, you know where to go when the going gets rough.....

not2fun

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Thanks for the kind thoughts, N2F.
You hang in there too, ok?

It's a great relief to have this support group. Not sure where I would be without it...


BH(me): 40ish
FWW:(ILMH) 28yo
DS 3yo
Married 7yrs
Together 10 yrs

??? Spring '07 - Adultery Begins
8/25/07 - 1st D-day (week of our anniv.)
8/07 thru 5/08 - About a dozen D-days/Gaslighting/Flaunting/Fake Recoveries

She finally quit on...

1/1/08 - First real NC attempt(Maybe?)
3/1/08 - Told me OM is an A**hole.(Hope?)
5/3/08 - D-day (Admitted to PA once)
5/4/08 - Latest D-day(Finally confessed to multiple EA/PA in our home)
5/8/08 - Present
Struggling to hold on

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 537
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Well,
we're at 23 days NC and counting. Hoping that the fog will start to lift soon...
Just an update. Not much else to report.
I have slept through the night two nights in a row. I guess that's progress...
Thanks again to everyone who's helping us through this.


BH(me): 40ish
FWW:(ILMH) 28yo
DS 3yo
Married 7yrs
Together 10 yrs

??? Spring '07 - Adultery Begins
8/25/07 - 1st D-day (week of our anniv.)
8/07 thru 5/08 - About a dozen D-days/Gaslighting/Flaunting/Fake Recoveries

She finally quit on...

1/1/08 - First real NC attempt(Maybe?)
3/1/08 - Told me OM is an A**hole.(Hope?)
5/3/08 - D-day (Admitted to PA once)
5/4/08 - Latest D-day(Finally confessed to multiple EA/PA in our home)
5/8/08 - Present
Struggling to hold on

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