Post deleted by AshamedDesperate

AD,

I am very sorry for what you are going through. And many of us here are in the same situation. I am a relative newbie here compared to many of the vets here but I can offer a few words of advice.

DO NOT be clingy and needy. If anything this drives them away. I have much experience of this first hand.

You should order yourself a copy of Love Busters and His Needs, Her Needs. Start reading up, figure out what your husband's emotional needs are and start ACTING. A wise friend recently told me that you can't judge what people think by what they say, actions aer what lets you know how they feel.

So my advice is less talking, more action, hopefully you'll start to see some changes soon.

Good luck to you and we'll be praying for you.

Zora

Hi AD,

Welcome to MB, I'm sorry to read about your situation. But you are in the right place.

What you wrote about the little switching screen tactic is something that I had to put up with, too. And your story about what your husband said when you confronted him reminds me of my D-day. And yeah, I read a TON of books, too!

So it doesn't sound good. There is a high probability that something is goig on.

I'm no expert but I'm sure there will be plenty vets here to advise you soon.

Just take care, breathe and try to stay calm. I know that's nearly impossible, but try.

My heart goes out to you, AD.

((((((((((AD))))))))))

If I read your situation correctly, you said you verbally abuse your H. You also have hit him. That is abuse and you can and frankly should have been arrested for that. YOU need help in that regard.

Did you have an affair in this marriage?

What types of things do you do that are verbally abusive??? Do you put him down (I ask this based on his "who would want me comment).

Your H may or may not be having an affair. Frankly, right now, that isn't the main issue. Your abusive nature is what needs to change right now. I suggest that you look into a batterer program. IC will not be helpful with this.

Your EN's need to be put on the back burner for now. I would say be the best person you can be. Tell your H that you want to go to MC and find a MB friendly counselor in your area and begin that therapy immediately. If you cannot control your abusive tendencies, I strongly suggest you moving out until you get that under control. No one, male or female, should ever have to put up with being abused either physically or emotionally.

In the background, quietly gather information regarding a possible affair. It could be that he is talking to this CRISIS INTERVENTION counselor about the crisis of abuse that is going on in his own life (in addition to the other issues). If he is, I am sure he wouldn't want his abuser to see this information. This is not to say he is not having an affair...but right now, you don't know.

and please calm down...take care of yourself as much as possible. This can all work out and you may wind up with a great marriage.

AD,

I thought I would offer some ideas for you to consider. May I ask what has prompted you to start reading marriage books and post on this site? Is the fear of your H's affair?

While you consider that question let me use a few of the things you have said and put them in context to what I want to say:

You said
Then you said your H said

Now let me ask you if you had a close friend that this was happening to (what you have put your H through) and felt as states he feels, what you would you tell this friend? How would you comfort this friend?

Your post is full of actually good questions, but the answers to them must come from you. I hope you have read the articles on this site, about needs, and the four rules for a good marriage. One of those rules is the rule of "protection". Please read about it, for it is very important to you and your marriage right now.

I don't know if he is having an EA or PA or none at all. But, what is clear is that he is ripe for it. Just about any woman that would talk with him, listen to him, and act like they respect him has a huge inside track to his heart right now.

But, here is the problem, you are worried about YOUR needs being met, by a man that has quit wearing his wedding ring, may or may not be in an affair, and that you have belittled and ridiculed for 20 years. I won't even touch the physical abuse, it is self-evident that you are WRONG and he has stated he will be gone the next time it happens.

So let's look at this, don't you think you have the cart before the horse, if you are worried about your EN's being met right now? I would think that he has found ways to tune you out in order to keep his sanity and your requests for EN upgrades are falling on deaf ears.

So...let's start with the obvious, you need anger management. You need to get rid of the Love Busters and for sure the physical abuse. You need to start talking to him like he is a man and not your personal whipping boy. You need to establish that it is safe for him to talk with you. You need to start to consider what all of this looks like from his side of things.

Notice I have not said you need to start meeting his needs. I am sure that would be a good thing to do, but there are some more fundamental things that must occur first and that is his emotional and physical safety in your presence.

You don't say if you have children, but I can only imagine what they have learned about relationships and marriage and how to treat a spouse. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Now you are saying, "JL I KNOW this", and I will respond, "fine, then why are you still doing it."

You might say, "JL I have stopped." And I will say "stopped is a start, but it won't recover this marriage."

You need to get a plan together. You need to develop new coping skills and lines of communications with your H. The tools on this site can help you establish a plan. Counseling with the Harleys will help more.

Read here and then start to develop a plan. THe folks here will help you. The plan must be detailed with strategies for handling most situations. It should have evaluation points and ideas on how to evaluate progress. It should reflect commitment and the realization that this will take time.

You say "but what about his affair JL?" I would tell you that the best way to fight this affair is for you to change how you deal with him. For you to let him know you actually do love and respect him and that takes actions not just the absence of harsh words.

You need to make deposits in his love bank to fight the A, and to regain this marriage even if there is no A.

Please think about this and do some reading and thinking.

God Bless,

JL

Make the calls immediately and get an appointment to deal with your abusive behaviors. IMO, you don't need to concentrate on a communication problem - people can have difficulty communicating without resorting to verbal, emotional and/or physical abuse.

What kind of questions are you asking him? Questions of your suspicions? Have you considered asking him to express his opinions, feelings, thoughts on your marriage?

It's not ridiculous to worry since your marriage is obviously in a crisis, but worry is not productive. Plans with actions are.

What are his needs and desires? What are the things he has sought from you over the years that you held back from him? Your husband needs you to minister to him - with grace, with kindness, with tenderness. Not clingy, whiney and grabby behaviors. Is your home a haven of peace?

You ask if you should look at the things he has done rather than wanting him to meet your emotional needs.

You need to rethink this attitude. You need to take a look at the things *you* have done. You need to look at meeting him in ways that will hopefully heal the gaping wounds he's most likely walking around with. Have you talked to him to know what he thinks makes a good marriage?

Reconsider making demands and having expectations of him, when it was just a few weeks ago that he was being abused.

And I don't mean this meanly - but I get bothered when women feel the freedom to haul off and hit a man. Most men are reared from an early age "son, you don't hit girls". So, slapping and punching a man when you are a woman is almost more offensive to me as if it as a man hitting a woman. Because the women who do it are often counting on the man not reciprocating.

The intent is exactly the same between the genders - the only difference is the amount of foot-pounds. It is not okay for women to hit men just because they usually can't hit as hard.

Your focus for a time does not need to be you and what he needs to be doing for you. That is the antithesis of Plan A and if your husband is sticking his toe into infidelity, Plan A is what you need to be working on.

I think JL made some excellent points. I will suggest however, that anger management is not the correct program for people that are physically abusive. A long term batterers program is a better option. Anger management has been shown to be woefully ineffective with an abusive personality.

AshamedDesperate - no "bashing," but you do, imho, need some "tough love" type talk in your "search to figure out why."




Marital "atmosphere." You created it and you made it clear that physical abuse is how you think "disagreements" should be handled. I'll bet you might not think so if HE thought it was "okay" to slap you, but that's been the "problem" all along, hasn't it? YOU are right and HE is wrong and YOU WILL WIN the argument.

So now you ask what really should be a rhetorical question: "why wouldn't he tell me ahead of time?"

Rhetorical because you answered the question before you asked the question: "The problem I have"

It appears that you have always approached things in your marriage from the perspective of "the problem *I* have with it," and then you even go so far as to "impose" your opinion on your husband by force.




All people who ARE having an affair deny it at first. That's especially true if someone thinks an "affair" is "JUST" physical sex with someone who is not your spouse.

That's also how "Emotional Affairs" ultimately develop into "Physical Affairs."

But your husband's question IS the "message of the affair," if there is an affair. His statement, ("says it's absurd that anyone would want him, etc."), tells you that he thinks even you would be "absurd" for wanting him, and he is, as JL said, RIPE for having an affair with anyone who will make him feel "wanted."

As JL pointed out, even if there is no affair right now, your husband is more than ripe for one and the ONLY thing that might be stopping him, given what you have done to him over the years, is HIS own moral standards. Those standards have been broken by your latest slap. He is nearing, or already there, the point where he WILL begin to convince himself that CHOOSING an affair is a "way" to enforce his Boundaries concerning how YOU treat him as a husband. (Boundaries are those things that you will not let someone else do TO you, and they have "consequences" that you determine will apply IF someone crosses your boundary)

STANDARDS are those things that you WILL NOT allow yourself to do TO OTHERS. Your own standards of behavior, if I had to guess based upon what you've written so far, are Markedly different in how you would "argue" or "disagree" with someone else and how you "feel entitled" to do so with your "captive" husband.

My opinion, and it's just my opinion, is that you have already "run out of track." The only chance you have to avoid a train wreck and keep the "marriage train" on the tracks and arrive at the destination of being "happily married" is that YOU have to build bridges and lay track. And that's the "problem." You have to DO the "dirty work" of changing your behaviors, not out of fear that he might be having an affair or that he might leave you, but because the changes are NEEDED no matter what in how you related to (safely) ANYONE, especially with your husband.

You say you are "soul searching?" "Soul" implies a religious faith, so let me also ask you if you do have a religious faith and, if you do, what it is and what part it actually plays in your daily life?

If you are just using the term "Soul" loosley without actually believing you HAVE a soul, then just ignore the previous inquiry.




1. - for now. Not forever.

2. - scary to be vulnerable to someone else and scary to know you might actually have been the "problem." Beginning to feel a little like your husband "feels" in your marriage?

3. - No. His pain is his pain. ONLY changes in the CAUSE of the pain that are lasting and permanent changes will help. But recovery takes TIME, there is no "quick fix."

4. - You don't and you won't. That's what love and commitment are all about, to say nothing of "self-sacrifice and servanthood, not selfishness and "I'll only agree to this or do that IF I know in advance that I will get what I want."

If you really want a "Good Shot" at saving your marriage, keep posting and working through the issues and the changes in your marriage that need to be made that are "positive" changes.

There is a lot to learn, but start with understanding what the "Taker" and the "Giver" are. Read about them here on this site. See how they apply to your behaviors and your husband's behaviors. Begin to learn the need for balance, because it appears that the two of you have had them way out of balance in your marriage relationship.

Post deleted by AshamedDesperate

read his sentence again. His reference to "soul" was regarding your faith...it was not a put down.

This happens A LOT on MB because there is a "time limit" on how long a "Reply Box" stays "open."

I would suggest one of two alternatives to help deal with this problem.

1. Type your responses in WORD or some other word processing program and then "copy it" and "paste it" into the Reply box.

2. ANYTIME you type directly into a Reply box, ALWAYS "select all" and "copy" the contents of the Reply box into your clipboard BEFORE you try to Preview or Add your reply.

We have all lost long posts, and some not so long when the system "hiccups" (like when too many people are online at the same time or trying to post something at the same time).

There seem to be, from the error messages that I get frequently, some problems in the "Line" coding of the program and only a programmer could "go in" and fix those problems.

I didn't "assume," I asked. I suspect that may be part of the "problem" too as your husband sees things. You may not "hear" him when he says something.

However, just to be CLEAR, there ARE (even though it might not be you) people who do not believe in a "soul" because that is a theological concept of something that "outlives" our bodies and is eternally existing. There are many people who believe "this life is all we have" and do not believe in any "higher power" or anything else that they "should" sumbit their lives and choices to other than whatever it is that they want and desire.




This was a Question for clarification of a term you used and how YOU see it as being a part of you. It was NOT a "judgment."


"That was unfair. Until you are able to step inside someone else's shoes it's not really fair to judge them in that way. I need help, not judgement. How would anyone treat an alcoholic, drug abuser, etc.? Please don't take this wrong, I was hurt by that and wanted to point that out."

AD, I HAVE been a Betrayed Spouse. I am NOT taking what said "wrong," I understand the emotional reactions and how they can cause "misunderstandings" between what WAS said and what WAS "heard" by the recipient.

God bless.