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Garak Offline OP
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Arguments For

* States that adopted no - fault laws saw a decline in the rates of domestic violence.
* These laws empower a man or woman in an abusive marriage and make it easier to leave.
* Means less conflict during divorce, which means less emotional harm to children whose parents, are divorcing.
* Helps reduce the heavy caseloads of family courts.
* Shortens the length of time it takes to obtain a divorce, which, in turn, shortens the amount of time spent in a stressful situation.
* Financial settlements are based on need, ability to pay and contribution to the family finances, rather than on fault.

Arguments Against

* Over 80% of no-fault divorces are unilateral. This means that one party to the divorce objects to the marriage ending and no-fault laws take away that parties control over whether or not they can save their marriage.
* Has given more power to Family Court Judges in deciding issues such as custody, splitting marital assets and spousal support. When there is no one at fault, a judge’s decisions are based on his feelings and feelings are not always objective.
* Takes away a father’s rights to his children because they have no defense against a wife who wants to leave the marriage. Courts favor mothers and under the no-fault system it is hard to prove a mother unfit to parent.
* The idea that marriage is a covenant larger than the two people who make it has been lost. Marriage vows and the promise made to each other during those vows have lost their value. This is evident in the high divorce rate in the United States.
* Lowers a dependent wife’s living standards because she no longer has grounds to argue in her defense. Her husband can choose to leave her and 75% of the time the courts will not enforce any spousal support. Since the mother gets custody more often than the father this also means a lower standard of living for the children.
* Where once the Family Court Systems allegiance was with the institution of marriage, it is now with the institution of divorce. Family Courts used to put effort into protecting the sanctity of marriage. Now the main concern is to make divorce quick and easy and get it off the docket.

Where it Stands

Family Court Judge Randall Hekman said, "It is easier to divorce my wife of 26 years than to fire someone I hired one week ago. The person I hire has more legal clout than my wife of 26 years. That's wrong."

If you look around, you will see daily evidence of the breakdown of the American family. Many believe this breakdown is due to no-fault divorce laws. They believe the value of marriage has lessened and because of this, spouses are no longer willing to invest as much energy into saving it.

On the other hand, you have evidence like the 97% of married couples in Louisiana choosing to begin their marriages knowing they may one day have to deal with no-fault laws. Evidence that points to the fact that the majority of the couples have no problem with the no-fault laws.

http://divorcesupport.about.com/od/maritalproblems/i/nofault_fault_2.htm

So where do you stand on No Fault divorce laws? Sine this board is made up of people who want to save marriages, do you find the No Fault divorce laws make saving marriage harder?

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I think no fault divorce is one of the dumbest things ever even considered as law.

Do I think it makes saving marriages harder?...That's a tough one because it is only under the current conditions that I have any experience. Since we are still married, I can't say that it is true or not.

I can tell you that the attitudes of people in general when it comes to moral and ethical standards have been eroded by the relativism of today that sets nothing as a standard and everything is a matter of opinion. I think that is where the real travesty is based. No fault divorce is just one symptom of refusing to admit that anyone might actually be wrong.

It ranks right up there with no fault insurance...Which is the same concept applied to material things rather than moral.

Mark

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Garak Offline OP
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I think no fault divorce is one of the dumbest things ever even considered as law.

Do I think it makes saving marriages harder?...That's a tough one because it is only under the current conditions that I have any experience. Since we are still married, I can't say that it is true or not.

I can tell you that the attitudes of people in general when it comes to moral and ethical standards have been eroded by the relativism of today that sets nothing as a standard and everything is a matter of opinion. I think that is where the real travesty is based. No fault divorce is just one symptom of refusing to admit that anyone might actually be wrong.

It ranks right up there with no fault insurance...Which is the same concept applied to material things rather than moral.

Mark

Indeed, as I touched on in another thread. Adultery has no meaning anymore and fewer and fewer people consider loyalty to ones husband/wife to be important. The idea that a legal contract (marriage) can be discarded by one member for any reason (or no reason) without consequence is ridiculous.

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OK...So we agree on that...That's why I'm here at MB.

You?

Mark

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Have you read Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders?

An article based on the ideas can be found here >>>> Buyers Renters and Freeloaders

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OK...So we agree on that...That's why I'm here at MB.

You?

Mark

I stumbled to this board while doing research on the Marriage Strike (which I fully support until we get some fair sensible laws in place or until the government gets out of the "business" of marriage and divorce).

I like that this board is about saving marriage, not about destroying it.

Note: While it may seem that the Marriage Strike harms marriage, I see it as a boycott against the laws that have turned marriage into a joke. The Marriage Strike is designed to bring attention to the ridiculous No Fault divorce laws and the biased family courts that have destroyed the sanctity of marriage.

Last edited by Garak; 01/19/08 04:00 PM.
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One of my friends at work has just separated from her husband. I gave her my copies of HNHN and LoveBusters to start reading and suggested this website for her and her husband.

I talked to her one night to see how things were going. They decided to separate and he is moving in with a buddy from his law school class. She is keeping their apartment since she is the one that is working. She said that they are separating all of their bills and getting separate bank accounts. Except for the cell phone bill. She said they will keep that one together because, as she said, "we have a 2-year contract and it'll cost us money to break it".

I was FLABBERGASTED!!! I said to her "so you have no problem breaking up your marriage vows and spending all the money you are having to spend in order to separate - rather than getting counseling and trying to work it out - but you won't break a contract for a freaking cell phone!?"

She got mad at me and we ended the conversation...and she hasn't talked to me about it any more. I guess my point was made. She put more value into the contract on her cell phone then the value of her marriage vows. They'll probably get a "no-fault" divorce and move on like nothing ever happened.

Yes, I think it should be more difficult to get a divorce.


Me - BW/FWW
Him - FWH/BH
Still figuring it all out - but we're figuring it out TOGETHER <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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One of my friends at work has just separated from her husband. I gave her my copies of HNHN and LoveBusters to start reading and suggested this website for her and her husband.

I talked to her one night to see how things were going. They decided to separate and he is moving in with a buddy from his law school class. She is keeping their apartment since she is the one that is working. She said that they are separating all of their bills and getting separate bank accounts. Except for the cell phone bill. She said they will keep that one together because, as she said, "we have a 2-year contract and it'll cost us money to break it".

I was FLABBERGASTED!!! I said to her "so you have no problem breaking up your marriage vows and spending all the money you are having to spend in order to separate - rather than getting counseling and trying to work it out - but you won't break a contract for a freaking cell phone!?"

She got mad at me and we ended the conversation...and she hasn't talked to me about it any more. I guess my point was made. She put more value into the contract on her cell phone then the value of her marriage vows. They'll probably get a "no-fault" divorce and move on like nothing ever happened.

Yes, I think it should be more difficult to get a divorce.

LOL, I never thought of it that way but yes, alot of people do things like that. You are right, a cell phone contract should not outweigh a marriage contract. In fact, nothing should outweigh a marriage contract but I digress.

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I don't think you will find anyone on the board that supports no-fault divorce. I've said it before, if marriage were viewed like any other contract, there would be SOME form of penalty when you broke that contract (had an A). But there's not. It doesn't matter at all. It's a very sad sign of the state of society we live in. Very, very sad.

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I'm not going to read all this. I think Tabby is right.

However, [color:"purple"]I believe most wayward spouses would say it is not their fault they wanted to leave the marriage. They probably like the idea that they are not at fault. This has probably lead to much of the popularity of No Fault divorce.[/color]

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[color:"purple"]I believe most wayward spouses would say it is not their fault they wanted to leave the marriage. They probably like the idea that they are not at fault. This has probably lead to much of the popularity of No Fault divorce.[/color]

As true as this likely is, for every WS, there is a BS left in their wake. Where were we (the BS's) when this legislation was rolling out?

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I believe no-fault has made it easier to get a divorce w/o much penalty to the couple - their children on the other hand have (in most cases) been penalized !!

I blame alot on cell phones and the internet. Having an A and getting away with it or having your spouse catch you, doesn't even seem to bother the WS. Having an A in todays society is very, very easy. It's almost accepted behaviour.


With so many divorces the court system doesn't have time or want to make the effort to blame anyone. Their hands are full of murderers, thiefs, drug dealers, etc.

Do I believe if there is true fault, it should easily be recognized and brought out in court - ABSOULTELY ! I have photo's of my WH coming and going with a women in a hotel room - my attorney said - the courts dont' care !! They want proof - I have it and it means nothing !

Sad, but true

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I think that a better approach is this - anyone should be free to leave the marriage if they so choose, no questions asked (no fault).

However, if the other person wants to keep the marriage, then the person leaving should leave everything to that other person - that includes assets, and more importantly, the kids.

If the person who wants out also wants some of the assets and kids, they will need to show cause or fault - e.g. abuse, adultery, etc.

IOW, it's real simple - if you want out simply because you are not "happy" - fine, there is the door. If you want to take "stuff with you", you should have some justification to go along.

I am sure there are holes in this approach <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />, but it sure beats the idiotic existing laws, where the WS not only gets to have the roll in the hay, but also to take the kids and assets away from the person who tried to honor their vows.

AGG


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Amen, AGG!!!


Male 34 (1st Marriage) WW 32 (2nd Marriage) Met 7/02 Moved In 10/02 Married 6/07 EA D-Day 1/5/08 PA D-Day 1/8/08
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I would go one step further AGG, though this might fuel Garak's fire a little more. That person who wants out is still financially responsible for what is left behind, again unless fault can be shown. They can leave any time they want, but they can't run away from their obligations.

Now on the flip side, if fault is found with one spouse, as in one of them has an affair, the WS should be forced out with nothing but the shirt on his/her back and STILL have financial obligations for the tortured mess he/she left behind.

Of course none of this will ever happen so this is all just a dream.

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Agree!! What other contract can you break with no repercussions except the marital contract?!

No-fault is stupid. There is justice in Tabby's idea... though it will never happen.

J


Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person. -Mother Teresa
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When the bright idea for 'no-fault' divorce legislation was rolled out, the betrayed spouses were all in the therapist/counselor's office trying to put their devastated selves back together.

Oh, and that's another thing the WS should have to provide - payment for all the therapy the BS will have to have FOR LIFE!!!!! Not just for a year or two - any time, even if it's some bad issue that comes up 5 years later, or even 25. Permanently.

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No fault is a perfect example of modern society's attempt to marginalize old fashioned religious accountability. Many, many people today ABHOR acountability. Why else would there be all this religion bashing? People want to do WHAT they want to do, WHEN they want to do it. And the ONLY excuse they want to have be relevent is the excuse of: I DESERVE to be happy! And I have every right to be happy, regardless of past decisions.

Excuse me while I go throw up.

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How about a mandated pre-marriage course - to head off the threat of divorce and hopefully bring the statistics down in the first place?

We require schooling for most other licenses - why not marriage?


Sooly

"Stop yappin and make it happen."
"The will of God will never take you where the Grace of God will not protect you."

Me 47
DH 46
Together for 28 years.
Married 21 years.

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