FPF, I would not do anything except be pleasant and inviting while avoiding lovebusters. Don't make any move until and unless you have evidence of contact. So far her talk about moving out to get "space" is just that, TALK. She may never follow through. And as long as she is there with you and NOT in touch with him, there is hope for your marriage. She may not allow you to meet her needs while she is in withdrawal, but look for opportunities.

Just sit back and wait and watch for now, my friend.


What was that sound??? What makes this foggy is her belief that this attempt to manipulate you is anything but transparent. Waywards are such amatuers! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Thanks Mel. I was kind of thinking the same thing, but it helps to have someone else confirm it.

Each time in the past three months (the amount of time she has been back in the house) that she has talked about moving out she hasn't been able to really bring herself to do it.

Our email exchange today was longer than I posted and was actually kind of playful. The past two nights she hasn't been feeling well and I have been doing everything I can to make her feel comfortable and take care of the kids so she can rest. This has given me good opportunities to meet some needs.

I think I am starting to see a pattern that every time I kind of show some real strength it helps the situation. This last one was when she started talking about moving out I said "go ahead" and then went on to express how things would be.

Thanks again, I appreciate the encouragement.

Today I got an email from OM's ex. She said OM was very angry that ex was telling him kids could not be around WW and OM. Now if there is no contact, why would OM get so upset? Exactly, because they still have plans to be together.

WW says there has been no contact since Friday and that her moving out is so she can have space and time to figure out what she wants. That she is not committing to me, and not committing to him and she can't predict the future.

That's enough for me.

Preparing for Plan B, or possible D.

Can you talk to the OMW and find out if they are still in contact? Did she indicate his anger was RECENT? See, he may have plans for the future, but that doesn't necessarily your wife does. So, I think you are right to PREPARE, but don't pull the trigger yet.

I just talked to the OMs ex. She has no proof that they are in contact. His demeanor makes her think that he is planning on them being together. OM by the way is very angry that his ex and I talk. But we don't care, we're not the ones who had the affair and we're just watching out for each other and the kids.

WW says she is not committing to anything right now. I have my finger on the trigger, but won't squeeze just yet.

Good man!

WW has been looking for places to rent. I think she might actually go through with it this time. But I'll wait to see. My question now is, if she moves out on her own how do I handle things. Do I act like it's plan B in my interactions with her. I have told her I don't want much of any contact with her, though not sure how that would work with the kids situation. I've also told her the kids can't stay with her until she is settled in and more stable. So there will have to be conversations about when they can go spend the night with her. My house will always be their primary residence but the WW would like to have them stay over, if in fact she carries through with moving out.

There is a part of me that wants to just push for the divorce if she does move out. But there is still a piece of me that wants to wait and see what happens once she moves out and what affect that has on things.

Can't seem to fully committ or decide on the course of action once she does move out. Starting to feel like WW, can't make the decision:)

I renamed my thread to be a bit more specific.

My WW is planning on moving out and currently looking at places to go. I have been doing my best to Plan A for now, but not sure when Plan B should kick in. I have been unable to detect any contact between WW and OM. WW says she needs to have time and space to figure things out. I consider this all babble, but don't know what to make of it. WW has friends and family saying "yes, take some time to yourself, you've never really been alone, find out if you really want to try to make the marriage work, don't do it for the wrong reasons". Of course my reply is what would be the wrong reasons? If a marriage can be saved and the spouses find love and respect with each other again, who cares what the reason was.

If WW makes the decision to move out, is this still time for plan B? Can you continue to Plan A after the WW moves out, or do you move to Plan B?

I'm torn between breaking off all contact with her when she moves out, or continuing to try to meet emotional needs. I just don't know. Of course there's a part of me that just wants to move directly to plan D, but if I'm honest with myself I have to say I probably won't do that.

Any suggestions.

FPF, here is how I would play this. *IF* she moves out, plan on doing your very best Plan A for about TWO WEEKS. In 2 weeks she will be moved in and the novelty will have worn off. She will miss you and her home. That is the perfect time to go DARK in plan B.

During that time, get your finances separated, make visitation arrangements and QUIETLY PREPARE for Plan B.

After 2 weeks, we will help you construct a Plan B letter that tells her a) you love her, b) her presence is causing you pain, c) that you must end all contact with her, d) and give her a path BACK, ie: I will discuss reconciliation with you once you have ended your affair, etc, etc.

At that point you would go DARK AS NIGHT in plan B and your designated intermediary would handle any critical contact. She would be BARRED from the house and would have to pick up the kids in the driveway and have visitations away frm your home. In the Plan B letter, you would specify that the kids are never to be xposed to her affair.

Now, if you have read Surviving an Affair, you know what usually happens next. And that is that the affair starts a free fall when reality interferes with the fantasy. The fantasy was kept alive by the secrecy in the past. But moving out elminates all that. Real life ruins the fantasy.

The OM was probably meeting 1-2 top needs and you are meeting 3-4 minor needs. But she doesnt know that yet. When she moves out, she will quickly discover that he is not equipped or willing to meet the needs you did. He would not in a million years tolerate the crap you did or pamper her like you did. This will cause conflict in the affair and the lovebusting will begin. And since both sacrificed SO MUCH in their lives for the affair, their expectations of the other will increase, causing unrealistic expectations.

Now, you may end up getting divorced. But that is not a decision you have to make now. You can go into Plan B and restore some peace and sanity back in your life over the next few months, and THEN decide. That is a decision that is better made while you are not under emotional duress. And after a few months of plan B, you will not be under duress.

Plan B means no contact between you and your wife whatsoever. You would make arrangements for all critical information - about kids or finances - to go through a designated intermediary. It should be someone who will agree to STAY NEUTRAL and to act as a SPAM FILTER. He would not pass on any fogbabble or complaints to you. Only absolutely essential information. Everything else should be ignored.

You would not answer her calls or allow her in the house. You may need to change the locks. The kids should be told that you are not speaking to her because her affair is too painful to you. Ask them not to hand you the phone if she asks for you. [they do this often]

A good plan B letter is outlined in furnitureman's thread: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post1143897

The letter gives her a PATH back, and once those conditions are met she can contact your intermediary and let her know. Your intermediary can speak to her to see if she really is sincere. From that point, a reconcilation would be discussed.

Thanks for the great advice Mel.

A couple things to point out, so that you know where we are and can geer advice towards that.

All our finances are already seperate.

WW originally moved out March 07 and moved back in October 07. For most of that time she lived with OM. They have already had their dose of reality. The affair has been out in the open for almost a year now.

I have read all of SAA, the fantasy in the A is long gone. Like I said they lived together for 5-6 months, reality hit them and thats when A blew up and WW moved back in.

She had almost eight months out of my house. She had a chance to miss me and the house. Two weeks of plan A after she moves out aren't going to make her come running back, in my opinion.

I'm not dicounting any of your advice. I value all of it. Just trying to make sure all the facts are known.

I like the idea of Plan A for a short time after she moves out again and then going dark on plan B. I'm just trying to point out that this isn't going to be some quick awakening for her like she has never been away from me, the kids and house.

I am not going to push for Plan D right away, but understand I am not in that much emotional distress. Most of my emotional roller coater happened close to a year ago. I am actually feeling really good about myself and fairly stable emotionally these days. Still I will let some time go by before I make any decisions.

The WW called a little while ago and said she had talked to the landlord of a condo for rent in our neighborhood. So she is definately pursuing moving out right now.

FPF, I am fully aware that they did live together in the past and she came back when the affair exploded in violence. HOWEVER, it was not enough to kill her addiction. Not even that was enough to kill her affair.

She is like the alcoholic who forgets the STING of her last drunk and goes back for more. She has not hit bottom yet!

I have no doubt that she is planning on moving out so she can have the OM *AND* you. As long as she has you to run back to, she can pursue her affair without getting in so deep like she did before. I suspect she envisions a set up where she has you for a "friend" and the OM for the occasional romantic partner. I think plan B will make a big difference this time because she will find herself alone with a very impossible situation.

In the meantime, keep telling her you won't be her "friend" and have no intentions of supporting her in any way when she moves out. I suspect her addiction to the OM overrides her fear of losing you. She may believe she can get you back on the plantation once she gets out. Who knows what is going through her mind?

Did you cut off all contact completely during that 8 months?

I don't think she will ever come "running back," but I do think her affair WILL END without you around to prop her up. The point of doing a GREAT PLAN A is that she has a GREAT MEMORY of you before you go dark. She will always compare the OM to that memory and that is what you WANT.

I do think she will want to come back when she is finally over her addiction. At that point, you can decide whether you are interested or not. In case you ARE interested, you would want to ensure that you are an attractive landing place, hence the suggestion to do a great Plan A before you go dark.

I agree with what you are saying.

OM called last night about 20 times. She finally answered and talked to him. It didn't go real well between them on the phone.

She is sticking to her story of moving out and taking time to herself. I have been doing a good job planning A her recently. Once she finds a place, I'll be ready to go Dark.

The last time she moved out, no I didn't break off all contact. Though I had found MB's I hadn't done enough reading to understand Plan A and Plan B at the time.

Found out today that NC has been broken a few times over the last week. More than just Saturday night, which I was aware of.

Now I need help with a good Plan B. I will start by looking at the sample letter here on the site and maybe search through posts for more. Any suggestions or ideas are welcome.

I would first work on getting her out. You don't want to hand her a Plan B letter and then not be able to go dark. I will post a good plan B letter, that I think is very effective, when I get home.

Sorry to hear she has been in contact, FPF. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

She is already planning on moving out and looking for a place. Should I just wait for her to leave, or should I give her the boot? What kind of implications are there to her leaving on her own compared to me telling her to leave?

There is nothing wrong with asking her, very diplomatically, to move out. The goal is to get her out, FPF, in a friendly, pleasing way, so I would focus on the best way to achieve that. If she doesn't move out SOON, you might want to ask her to move out...............nicely, of course.

I don't think it would hurt to tell her that you AGREE with her plan of moving out and would help her find a place. Sooner, rather than later.

I told her last night very politely that I do think it's a good idea for her to move out, and that I thought she needed to.

She came home for lunch today(I'm at home with sick kids), and told me she had talked to someone about getting a six month lease on a condo here in our neighborhood. All she has to do is email her information and it can be ready immediately. All she had to say about it was she needed a little time to buy a couple beds and a kitchen table. She also said she was nervous about the kids. I told her that was a genuine concern.

Should I still come up with a Plan B letter when she does move out?

I have talked to her sister about being the buffer between us in any conversations.

This isn't going to be easy.