And I think we expected that you were sincere when you said: "Hey all, i'm new here and I just really wanted to see if any of you guys had any advice for me."

I guess not. But hey, whether you take that solicited advice is up to you. Take what you need and leave the rest, it is all the same to us. <shrug> Take care...

come on now
envirogirl didnt say you were dead wrong, she was just trying to clarify what she saw as a misunderstanding of her position

there is no rush...i'm not saying I want to move in together as soon as I egt to BC....i'm saying years....when I am ready to get married...

http://www.boundless.org/2005/articles/a0001126.cfm

this link should give you some good info.

Good luck.

here's another. I think these are fair and balanced.

http://marriage.rutgers.edu/Publications/SWLT2%20TEXT.htm

in that article it states thta living together once engaged decreases the push to stay together (because of shared things...like a dog or furniture) and neither increased or decreases the likeliness of getting a divorce in the future....and if you read what I said in my first post....I want to move in when we are engaged.

EG..I am not going to interpret that data for you and Tim. I gave you two studies...one done by a large university and based on census data...the other by someone that obviously has much experience.
You two can extrapolate the necessary information out of each. I think the theme in both is that the risk of living together is greater than any benefit.

Try doing an internet search for more information. Living together/statistics should net you a lot of great resources. Recognize the site you are on is not geared to this topic and obviously the opinions you get here will (and should) be colored by our experiences and Dr. Harley's teachings.

Again, I wish you luck and a happy life.

It would be curious to see these statistics applied to people aware of Marriage Builders principals.

I guess the way I see it, either way you choose, simply being here before getting married or experiencing a marital crisis probably increases your odds of a successful marriage exponentially!

Good luck to you both regardless of your decision about cohabitating before marriage! I wish my W and I had been familiar with this site before we'd married! Could have avoided a LOT of problems!

thank you!

I feel the same way. I think if we are aware of what is needed in a marriage we can then embark on a functional loving marriage, fo course there will be problems, there always is, but we will be better equipt to handle it.

This, in my opinion is where the truth lies in this whole matter. IMHO, everyone should live completely on their own for a minimum of two years before they consider marriage. This is when most young adults grow up, having to take care of all their own responsibilities, from rent to phones to insurance to credit cards, not to mention all the household chores. This is also when full independence is gained, and many time when ideals are formed for what the rest of their life's direction might be.



You can go through the different threads in the GQII forum and check the tag line on many, many posts, and see where people lived together, and later had infidelity invade their lives. This is not to say "not living together" guarantees a safe marriage, but living together certainly provides no special avoidance clause, either.

just my 2 cents worth
sd

Of course you don't have to get married! I have friends who've lived together for decades without getting married. Consequently I'm not inclined to throw the "shack-up" slur around. But the truth is, most of the time people who move in together because they aren't prepared to get married do themselves no good at all. Getting to know each others' quirks is not important. It won't make any difference.

I think you should follow your original idea of living separately, but close together, and dating. Have some independence from each other. You'll have more time to prepare for living together and you can make plans. It's fun and it's better and smarter than the ad-hoc approach of throwing all your stuff in a pile and fighting it out.

The difference between getting married and shacking up is that shacking up is only a commitment to see *if* it "WORKS OUT." It is not a commitment in any sense of the word and carries with it a very different mindset than a buyers mindset. A buyers agreement, on the other hand, is a commitment, NOT TO STAY MARRIED, but a commitment to making the other person happy FOR LIFE. The latter is what qualifies a buyers agreement, the former is a freeloaders agreement at worst, or a renters agreement at BEST. Any arrangement that is contingent upon "finding out each others quirks" is worlds away from a commitment to make my partner happy for life.

I think the difference between the mindsets is best explained in Buyers, Renters, Freeloaders:

Freeloader is unwilling to put much effort into the care of his or her partner in a romantic relationship. He or she does only what comes naturally and expects only what comes naturally. It's like a person who tries to live in a house without paying rent or doing anything to improve it unless the person is in the mood to do so.

Renter is willing to provide limited care as long as it's in his or her best interest. The romantic relationship is considered tentative, so the care is viewed as short-term. It's like a person who rents a house and is willing to stay as long as the conditions seem fair, or until he or she finds something better. The person is willing to pay reasonable rent and keep the house clean but is not willing to make repairs or improvements. It's the landlord's job to keep the place attractive enough for the renter to stay and continue paying rent.

Buyer is willing to demonstrate an extraordinary sense of care by making permanent changes in his or her own behavior and lifestyle to make the romantic relationship mutually fulfilling. Solutions to problems are long-term solutions and must work well for both partners because the romantic relationship is viewed as exclusive and permanent. It's like a person who buys a house for life with a willingness to make repairs that accomodate changing needs, painting the walls, installing new carper, replacing the roof, and even doinf some remodeling so that it can be comfortable and useful.

EnviroGirl,

I hope you will listen to me because 10 years ago I was in the exact same situation. I was a Christian and my girlfriend was not. She wanted us to live together before marrying in order to make sure we were compatible. I proposed to her so that we could at least be engaged while we were living together.

Eight years after marrying, my wife and I are now separated. She had an A and moved out. I feel duped.

After finding this web site, I ended up reading "Buyers, Renters & Freeloaders" (now called "The One") and it explained why cohabiting prior to marriage so often leads to divorce (and often leads to abusive marriages). When you are living together before marriage, it's a trial run. And during that time you're both on your best behavior. In other words, you're not truly acting like yourself. So there's not something that will set off any alarms. After you get married, one or both of you will start to act a little more normal and not so much on your best behavior.

This is not to say that if you two cohabitate that it will invariably lead to divorce or abuse, but that it increases the odds massively. This is not just Dr. Harley's personal opinion, it is backed up by years of data.

If you don't want to believe Dr. Harley, if you don't want to believe the statistics, please believe me. You don't want to be where my wife and I are now. We are both very unhappy.

But being in a long distance relationship, when we can see each other, we live at one another's houses. A week heare and there doesn't exactly mean we are livign together, buti can assure you, we aren't on our best behavior, we're not those kinds of people, not saying that's any sort of justification to moving in, just mentioning it as a point.

we've been talking about it all night and have decided that when I move there will be no lvign together, unless I can't find somewhere to live from here, in which case i'll be staying wiht him until I can find a place of my own. I know what you're thinking, that it will just lead to us living together, but I know no one else but him there, and finding a place to live in a new province when you're in a different one isn't a simple task.


I may nto even be moving there yet, still have to find a job, and I guess when i do find a job I shoudl find some furniture to put in the apartment i'll be finding there.

I think more than anything i'm scared to not have him when i'm moving to a strange and unfamiliar place where I don't know anyone but him and his family,and I know i'll have him mostly close to me, but when i'm sitting alone in my unfurnished apartment with no friends and nothing to do on nights when he is doing homework or other such things living together sure sounds a lot less lonely....and yes I know...freeloader/renter mind set.


all I know is i'll do anything to give this relationship the best chance of survival, and if that means waiting until i'm ready to be married and saying "I do" before I fully get to enjoy the life of living with my boyfriend (well i guess husband in this scenario) so be it, he's worth every second waited.

Interesting thread, just received a revelation that my WH is renting right now.

That's true, statistics do show that people who live together BEFORE getting married increase the chances of divorce. Studies have been done on this.

I was in a long distance relationship with my husband before we got married, but never even set foot in the house until AFTER we got married. I believe I'm the only woman he's been with that HASN'T lived with him while being in a relationship w/him.

I personally don't like the idea of living in together before marriage...and this was back then more of a family value thing for me. My family didn't believe in it. They totally believe in buying. But now it's more of a religious choice and a moral one.

The choice is clearly up to you. People here have given you great advice, though.

Enjoy the process EG! Living along will be a fun adventure in and of itself, and you'll be really glad you did it after 10 years of marriage, two kids, and a mortgage are lookin you in the face!

envirogirl, you both seem to have your heads on pretty straight, IMHO.

From what you've posted, I think that you both ought to try living in the same area and staying in the relationship. Living on your own, while not in school, is a good life skill. Try it for a year and then evaluate where you are. It will be much different than having a long-distance relationship. You're both young, there's no rush to get married.

As for being lonely sitting in your apartment, I say that it will motivate you to make friends and be less dependent upon timpzed. You will grow as a person, which I believe is important before marriage. Too many people jump into marriage as a way of either escaping a bad situation, or avoiding being on their own.

This way, when and if you decide to marry, you will know that it's for the right reasons.

Just my .02

PK

Just for fun, EnviroGirl, can you list your guy's top emotional needs?

timpzed & EnviroGirl,

This is a perfect opportunity for the 2 of you to practice POJA.

Timpzed, you want to get married immediately.
EnviroGirl, you want to live together.

The obvious possible solution is the one that has already been mentioned, which is for the two of you to live separately, commit to being engaged for 1 year (or whatever you choose), seek pre-marital counseling, and spend that time with each other. That will give you both an opportunity to test what types of recreational companionship you can enjoy together, whether your conversational skills meet both your needs, and so on. Being engaged while not living together will not be time wasted.

EnviroGirl, it seems that you have never lived on your own but are just now getting out of school. I strongly encourage young women to get established in their own career and have some time living on their own before getting married.

Doing so serves two purposes. That first year out on your own is an incredible learning experience. No mom and dad to cushion things for you and a no 'artificial' university atmosphere. If you choose to become a SAHM in the future, having already established a foothold into your choice of career, increases your options if for some reason you have to return to work unexpectedly.

The second thing it does (living on your own for a year or so), is that it eliminates the regret I have seen so often from women who went straight from mom and dads into marriage. I have seen to many women who think they missed out on something by never living on their own. I don't know that they have missed anything, but it is a very common phenomenon.

I would also look into the differences in religious beliefs. That may seem like a very small issue now, but it has a tendency to get much larger as time goes by and as children are born.

Engagement is a type of commitment as is marriage.. The above is what I would recommend to my own children. Perhaps some of it will be of use to you.

WOW, Great information, especially for anyone dating, to honestly take a look at.....



Timpzed,
I do want to point out a not so small point for you to think about regarding your earlier post. Looks like you are a Christian and EG is not........

2 Corinthians 6:14: "Do not be unevenly yoked with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and lawlessness have in common? What fellowship has light with darkness?"


Christians have nothing in common with the unbeliever. We have been transformed we have a new goal and aim in life, which is to please God. The world does not seek to please God but it desires to please itself. With our new spiritual thinking we are to come out from the world and its old ways. We are to take on a new identity and life in Christ and be separated from the past. All things have become new the bible tells us.

I am not slamming you with this, only asking where do you stand with Gods Word vs the worldly view of this subject.

This is for you to chew on.........very personal.....between you and God.....not between you and ANY other person.

Good Luck, it takes a lot of courage and ALL of God's help to examine ourselves honestly.