My wife and I, both 31, have been together for the past almost 12 years, married over 9. We have 2 children ages 4 and 7. We have had some minor problems thoughout the years as anyone does, but I was an [censored] about some of it. She would tell me on occasion (less than 2/year) that she was unhappy, but would not elaborate. At one point I actually argued with her and said "no your not". I was wrong here, but didn't know any better. I was a member of the fire department and a Paramedic, so I was gone a lot. I sat on numerous regional committees and had training every month. In my defense, she was also a member and that is where we met, but once we had kids, she left to take care of them. We were both large people when we got married, but this past May she had her stomach stapled. She is now down to a size 12 from a 26.

This past summer she signed up on an internet dating site and started having inappropriate chats with men not in our area, telling them she was seperated. I found out and was devastated. I confronted her when I found out, and she stopped. We also went to marriage counseling for 4 visits. We stopped at 4 because our last 2 visits, the counselor just talked with us about various topics instead of helping us. It still seemed to help though. We celebrated our 9 year anniversary and went away for 3 nights without the kids to Niagara Falls. Our sex life improved exponentially. I had done a complete 180 and was doing everything she wanted me to do from the counseling, I quit the committees and the fire department, and was devoting my life to her and the kids, as I should have been all along.

A few months went by and I found out that now she was chatting with someone from our area. She had me go pick up our kids one day from her parents house after they spent the night, and she was going to stay home and study (she is trying to finish nursing school PT). Shortly after I left, she called me and said she needed to go to her best friends house because she was having an emotional meltdown. The next day I found flowers and a card in her car when she asked me to get something for her. I confronted her and she admitted they were from him, as were the other flowers she said were from girlfriend the other day. I asked her to go back to the counselor with me and she was hesitant. She did finally go, but refused to go again after that as he pointed out that she said she needed attention, but I said she wouldn't let me spend any time with her. She was always on the computer "studying". I found chats and emails from him on our computer and told her again she needed to stop NOW. She took the weekend before christmas and went out with a girlfriend, who I trust, to sort things out. I know she was where she said she would be and did not call him...after friday night. Saturday evening she called and said she chose to work on us and would tell him she couldn't talk to or see him again.

Sunday she came home and we talked a bit, but then I had to go to the hospital as my dad was there following a heart attack. That day my dad had a cardiac arrest, they did CPR and brought him back, but he never woke up again. My dad died on Jan 5th at 12:20 am. My mom and I were there, as we spent most of our time there during that 2 week period. I was not there for my wife, but she tried to be there somewhat for me. On Jan 7th, we had a BIG fight. She went for a drive for an hour at about midnight and came home. We talked for a bit, and she slept on the sofa. Tuesday we were both off of work for bereavment, and she said she needed to go see her mom for a bit and then go study. The next day I found out she went to his house for the afternoon. I didn't find out until Wed evening, during the day we went out to lunch and had what anyone would consider a nice day together. When I confronted her she didn't deny it. I told her I was leaving the next day, and she couldn't stop me. That progressed to ask me to stay, and by the next am, please ask me to stay. She didn't so I left.

That Sat I met her and got the kids for the night. I told her I did some thinking and I should not have made this type of rash decision just after my father died and I would be coming home the next day. Sunday morning I got up early as I couldn't sleep. I drove over to the other mans apartment and found her car there at 7:30 in the morning. I took a picture of it and sent it to her phone. After a few minutes she did answer. We talked and she said she would be home in a little while. When she got home we talked and I told her I wanted us to go back to the counselor. She said she would, but only to prove to me we were over. Tues evening we went to the counselor and she said she was not willing to work on us at all, that she regretted the decision to tell him goodbye, and never should have made it because he made her happy. She also said she wasn't doing this for him, she was just unhappy and no longer wanted to be with me. I told the marriage counselor how they had also driven away his wife with this affair. The counselor told her that her new relationship had almost zero chance of working, but then told me if she is unwilling, there was nothing he could do. He NEVER mentioned how her decision would affect everyone, not just her. He NEVER explained how hard this would be on our children, or the rest of our families (her step father has terminal lung cancer and has less than 1 year).

We decided to co-habitate for now since neither one of us could afford to leave. She stayed in our daughters room for a few nights until I asked her to come back to our room. Since we have been together, I have never been able to sleep without her next to me. She did, but wore pajamas to bed (we usually don't).

Things were OK for a week. I had been trying to get her to just work on us, and try to be happy. I feel she never gave me a chance once she met him, she said things did get better for a while, but she still wasn't happy. She said it was just a honeymoon phase after the first counseling visits. One afternoon we went to bed for a nap when the kids went down as they had us up early. We ended up having the most passionate love making we had had in years. I had one friend who was trying to help me through this whole thing because she had been there and was divorced after her spouse cheated on her. My wife found out I told her about us making love and it sparked a HUGE fight. It only lasted about an hour before we said we just didn't want to fight. We both dropped it and had a good evening. I then went out and got His Needs, Her Needs and started to read it. Since the counselor only tried to improve our communication only, I figured maybe this would help us solve our other problems. This book has been a light switch, and makes a lot of sense. She has agreed to read it and do the exercises, but thats it. She read the first 2 chapters and started to joke around with me about how negative my love bank was, not in a mean way, the way we used to be. We laughed about it and things have been, dare I say, OK since. She told me the night before last she was going to go see him this weekend for an overnight. She asked if I could handle this and I said I don't like it one bit, but I'm not going to be able to stop her. We had a very long talk and she said they had NOT had sex. I asked her not to yet, to give it a few weeks and see if Dr Harleys program is able to help us. She agreed to this, plus she'll have her period anyways. She is not yet sure if she is going for 1 night or 2, but I asked her to limit it to only 1. She said she would consider it. (I know, I'm an idiot for allowing any of it, but I love my wife, and yelling about this is only going to turn her against me more). We made love again that night, again very passionate. Yesterday I talked her into calling in sick to work and we spent the day together. We went to lunch, went shopping, even went to a mall an hour and a half away. I told her the day was going to be whatever she wanted. We had a great time. She did ask at lunch why I'm acting like everything is OK. I said I was just trying to make her see that she can be happy with me. I told her that I was making permenant changes in my behavior, and that she and the kids are my top priority. She said she was still going to go see him this weekend. I asked her if it was possible for her to be happy with me, IF she would want to be with me. She said it was a very big IF, but said maybe.

I think my plan A right now is to keep things as positive between us as possible. She is going to fill out the emotional needs questionaire today at work, and read a chapter or two from the book tonight. I am hoping if I can fill as many of her emotional needs as possible, maybe she will begin to be happy with me again. I just don't know how long this may take, or if I should still be having a fit about her going to see him. She said she needs to see what happens there. Keeps saying he may piss her off and she may not want to be with him, I told her I doubt that is going to happen. I think I need to work on us first and improve that before I move to plan B. I just need some input, I'm not sure if this is the best direction to save our marriage or not. I do think a lot of our trouble now is that she hangs out with a 23 year old girlfriend from work and they go bar hopping. I think she is getting attention she has never gotten her entire life and is having a hard time turning it away. I do love her, with all my heart, but I'm not sure how much I can stomach. I just want my life back. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />

Brother, You're not doing it the right way.

I suggest you get hot on all the applicable help articles here.

I can't stress enough that enabling her infidelity to continue will lead to no progress in your relationship. It sounds like you're living in fear of what the recourse would be if you made the demand that she stop all communications with the OM.



Your priority should be:
Yourself.
Your marriage.
Your children.

I've had 5 years of this prioritization:
My Children
My marriage.
Myself.

That's dysfunctional. I hope you're taking precautions to not make the same mistake, or are correcting it. It's important to work hard, but it's paramount you work smart.

Peace be with you Med. You've got help here.

-TGF

I have a very hard time with the concept of KNOWING that your WW is going off to spend the weekend with OM and you not doing EVERYTHING in your power to stop her, including up to the point of telling her that if she goes, she can't come home ... PERIOD!!!

I also can't imagine experiencing the conversation where my W would ask for my permission to go off with the OM for a weekend. This is a level of disrespect that I can't quite begin to understand why you would accept this.

DAMMIT MAN, this is YOUR W ... maybe you can explain it to me so I can understand what your thought process is that allows you to think this is even an OPTION, because I just can't relate to your situation.

I want to make this work, I love her immensly. I don't know how to demand she not go see him. I figured at least I can get her to read the book and try to lay some foundation for me to work from. If I demand she not go, she will go anyways, and will not work at anything. I don't know, I'm so lost!

MedicMike,

I'm so sorry about your dad. (((((Big hugs)))))))) Difficult enough to deal with the loss of your dad without all the marital problems too!

A couple of questions for you.. What do you know about the OM? His name? Who he is? Is he married?

And your families? Yours & your W's. Do they know what is going on? Are they aware of her affair?

Mike, I'm only offering my perspective ... you live your life as you see fit.

With that said, I truly believe that not all M's are worth saving and not all WW's are worth keeping.

If my W were to tell me that she was going off for a weekend with OM, and THERE WAS NOTHING I COULD DO ABOUT IT, she would fall into the category of WW that I just described.

We all have different tolerances, but somewhere you have to draw a line, while you are still able to look at yourself in the mirror.

Also, I have experienced a W and M like I described above, which ended in D, so I learned from the school of hard knocks that it is possible to survive a D and even prosper ... its all about having confidence and being happy with yourself, and accepting the rest that you can't change anyway.

You are correct in plan Aing your WW.

Do you believe that your WW has not started a PA with the OM?

"Sat I met her and got the kids for the night....I would be coming home the next day. Sunday morning I got up early as I couldn't sleep. I drove over to the other mans apartment and found her car there at 7:30 in the morning. I took a picture of it and sent it to her phone. After a few minutes she did answer. We talked and she said she would be home in a little while"

The OM is her lover. What does one do when they spend the night with a lover?

Do you not realize that WW's never tell the truth?

When she is going to OM's house this weekend do you think all the OM and WW are not going to get physical?

Your are correct in that you can not stop her but do not make it easy for her to go their.

Last, you must expose WW's affair. Do not warn her or threaten her with exposure. If you warn a WS it just gives the time to pit their spin on things to deny and do damage control. Just do it.

Tell her parents what she is going to do this weekend.

Her mother knows, but has a lot to deal with right now on her own. Her step father is dying of lung cancer, her mom knows generalities of what is going on, but said she doesn't want specifics right now, she is trying to focus on her dying husband. I don't know how to tell her not to go other than ask. She claims this is not a PA yet, she will have her period so I don't think anything is going to happen. All of her friends know whats going on. The only person I could possible confront is the OM. He doesn't know we still stay in the same bed every night, and that we still make love. That aspect of our relationship has only gotten steadily better since the summer. I don't think I should call him right now since all it will do is push her further away.

You have my sympathies MM. I was in denial about my WW's A for quite some time as well. It became real hard to deny once the herpes outbreaks started though.

I would suggest some spying is in order, so you can come to terms with what is really happening in your marriage. The truth might make you less agreeable to the fantasy you have created. Which might make you less inclined to enable HER fantasy.

If you're having sex with your WW, I'd suggest you wear a condom.

I'm going to tell her I don't want her to go. I'm going to tell her I made plans for us to do something with the kids this weekend. This will probably spark a fight, not going to help my cause any, but we'll see. Wish me luck

Mike,

PLEASE pay attention to what Tyk is telling you ... he is the "VOICE OF EXPERIENCE" concerning what you are dealing with and could be a great resource for you.

Seriously, how is sending her off to continue her affair with the OM "helping your cause"???

Listen ... it was hard for us to believe as well, but ALL WW's LIE, and they do it very convincingly. She is in a PA with this OM and you are ENABLING it to continue with your inaction.

Just do this ... snoop a little. Look at her cell phone log ... look for an extraordinary amount of calls and texts to an unknown number. Check her email activity ... (HINT) she will delete the emails from her inbox, but most forget to double delete the "Deleted" files or they don't delete the things from their "Sent" box (That's where I caught my WW in her activities).

Just look for an opportunity and check her cell phone and email. Since she has so little respect for you, my guess is she's not really trying to cover her tracks ... "Look and you will FIND" ... then we'll help you formulate a plan if you want to try to stop the A and recover your marriage.

YOU OWE IT YOURSELF AND YOUR KIDS TO FIND OUT THE TRUTH!!!

Mike
is it possible that you contact the harley's or someone with professional experience dealing with your situation.( no disrespct for the posters here).. Can you ask her to stop seeing BOTH of you.. just to "clear her head"
you need to keep them apart and to slow her actions down
and find out all the info on OM that you can..if you cant stop HER maybe you can stop HIM...is he married? his wife would be an ally. His arents... his friends..HER friends.. who is a friend to your marriage or YOU
jb

He was married, but their A already made his wife leave and file for D.

Last night I told her I would NOT watch the kids this weekend so she could go see him. I told her I would like us to go out as a family and have some fun. She blew up and started yelling and screaming in front of our kids. Our DD started crying and said she didn't want us to get a D, she wanted us both home. She then called OM in front of me and started talking to him. In a voice loud enough for him to hear me I asked her to tell him the truth since she has been sleeping next to me for the last 2 weeks, and had sex with me twice in the last week. I also asked her to tell him where she was the day before since she told everyone she was sick and we spent the day together. I texted the OM and said I could send him copies of receipts to prove she lied to him. She then closed the door to the bedroom while she talked to him. A few minutes later I went in and found her off the phone crying.

We started talking and I told her all I wanted was a chance to save our marriage, that she also needed to consider our children, not just herself. She asked how she was supposed to do that when she still had feelings for him, and I read her the addiction part from HNHN, how she needed to stop all conversation with him immediately. I told her I knew it would be the hardest thing she has ever done. I also said if she felt like she needed to talk to him, that she should tell/call me and I would help her through it. She also asked if she was supposed to be miserable, since I had not been making her happy for years. I said no, but you should want to work towards being happy. All she said is that she knew my track record of making things better short term, then back to dysfunctional, and didn't want to go through this again, or lose him for nothing.

She had started to work on the EN questionaire, but did not finish it, so I read her mine, telling her if I took the time to do it, the least she could do was listen. I finished off by telling her I still loved her and wanted to make this work, but that would be impossible as long as she is still talking to the OM. I told her I would be leaving after work today, that if nothing else, we needed space apart so we could both re-examine our priorities. I guess my plan A didn't work at all, nowheres near enough time, but maybe plan B will.

I would love to talk with the Harleys, but I can't afford it. Unless they want to do some pro-bono, I don't think it will happen. I'm not even sure it would help at this point, my WW is completely unwilling to end the A.

Expose to the next level of family and friends. You are not getting enough help from the first round of exposure.

Have you plan A'd for six months?
Plan A takes time, usually the Harley's recommend six months, then reevaluating the situation.

Moving out is a threat. Threats usually don't work. Leaving the house is making it easier for the WW to continue the affair.

How can you plan A if you are not home?

You have not learned how to plan A yet, nor how or when to do a plan B. You are making rash decisions.

How do you still believe that you WW and the OM are not physical, and will not have SF this weekend?

Mike
sorry about the money thing.. BUT cant you aford an HOUR?
on the phone to get a STOP gap plan?
also read up on plan A and plan B and which one your situation calls for?..is there a "quick fix" thread on this wbsite.. where you might contact someone who had a similar situation?

JB

I know I didn't plan A long enough, but I can't keep enabling her to go see him can I. I die a thousand deaths every time I know where she is going. I get physically sick, the anxiety kills me inside.

Do you have the type of health insurance benefits that would cover some of the cost of marriage counseling?

I think I know you MedicMike

You need to not enable it, but you also have to realize that you can't stop her if that's what she decides to do. However, forcing her to act against your wishes is in and of itself a good thing. Up to now you have been a docile little lamb, going along with her deceit. Now the cat is coming out of the bag and she's being forced to make choices. Choices that will become harder and harder for her wayward mind to justify. This will cause conflict. Conflict is going manifest itself as anger. That anger is going to be directed, guess where? Straight at you partner! The way you deal with that is going to play a role in how quickly you are able to resolve this. She's going to be an absolute b1tch to you, if you explode, then in her mind, you just justified why she was a ******. See, she won't think "Golly, I'm cheating on him, and he's upset"! Nope, she'll think "I knew he was a jerk and always has been! No way I'm going back that when OM is so perfect for me!"

The fact that she is this upset indicates that no matter what the status of the A, you've got an A situation. I would bet heavily on it being a physical A though.

You do need to read up on the plans here, get a good understanding of what you are trying to achieve and the reasons behind the advice you are being given here. Alot of it does NOT make sense at first, but you need to try to get it so you don't do the right thing one second and then completely undo what you just did due to lack of understanding.

This is a great post, Carrot and Stick! describing the counterintuitive actions you need to be taking in Plan A.

First thing you need to do, is take a deep breath. This is NOT going to resolve itself overnight. However, you want to try to minimize the duration of all this as well. Start gathering information, start snooping as much as you can, and STOP fighting with your WW.

We're here for you, ask questions, lots of them.