My wife had admitted EA with boss/friend. Thought things were better for past 3 months. Found email recently "you can make it up to me with a nice massage", her reply, "When?" and "Its definately not punishment to give you a massage" But then the subject chaged immeadiately. Am i an idiot for believeing it is just joking around? Even goofing around like that is unacceptable to me.

It ain't a joke, and even if it is, she is completely disrespecting you.

Wife needs to change jobs immediately, as she obviously can't control herself.

Don't divulge the source of your info, or it will dry up immediately.

She is still in an affair. You need a plan.

You also need to expose the affair. But before you do, read up on how to do it appropriately.

You are NO IDIOT....

Protect yourself and your loved ones from harm.

Have you been to this site before and know what to do?

This kinda bs has been going off and on for a year. Iposted here 4 months ago, was in disbelief. Made it clear that this must stop, it appeared as if it did, for a few months, here we go again. I know she should not be working there, but i never, against all of the advice here, made that happen. I feel that i have done about everything i can do to run interference. Tired of feeling like a dad trying to keep his daughter reigned in. Should not have to do this with someone who tells me i am the most wonderful thing that has ever happened to her(married 13 years, Kids 5 and 7). Job is a hobby. Income not needed from her. Its a mess and i am begining to feel less and less dissapointed by her actions, taking it less personally, and that scares me.

Well, as for me, it hurting less (taking it less personally) is my protective reaction. If I don't care, it doesn't hurt, right?

Right!?!?!?!

Really, though, it is her problem, not your fault.

Last year was a devastating year for me. Blindsided like many others here. But these latest exchages moved towrds a physical nature, were as before, they were more of a emotioanl attachment thing going on. I'm afraid my caring less is potentially damging blow. She knew that this kind of thing happening again would really set us back again, but did it anyways. I think i'm under-reacting were as before, i was falling apart. Just venting

I think any relationship that includes physical contact....is a PA. Your wife has really poor marital boundaries and I think you have good cause to feel unsafe. If you want a book that will help alot....Please get "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass.

I wanted to leave you also with this excellent post by MULAN....her rant on "flirting"

I was recently part of a panel discussion at a writer's convention where the subject was "Flirting - Do's and Don'ts."

There were a fair number of people in the audience, including three high school girls.

The panel immediately started off with how harmless and fun flirting is. The other female on the panel, a cute younger married woman, mentioned how much she enjoys getting those zings of attention (she actually said that) from other men and considered it harmless fun - just something to get her through the day.

I wanted to ask her if her husband knew about her harmless fun zings of attention, but I didn't. (He was not there. I wonder why.)

At my turn, I said, "Please don't flirt with people who are married. It's massively disrespectful to that person's spouse."

Everybody's face fell and said "oh - well - but it's harmless - uh - uh - "

I said, "The difference between being friendly and being a flirt is that flirting is ALWAYS sexual."

(startled looks from the audience) "uh - what? huh?"

"Of course it's always sexual. When was the last time anybody here flirted with their parent? Or with their sister or their brother?"

(stunned looks as realization dawns)

At this point the cute young married female said, "I wouldn't have any problem with my husband flirting with other women! He's kind of shy and I think it would be cute! It would be good for him! I wouldn't mind at all!"

I put my head down on the table for a minute and tried not to have another meltdown on the spot. Then I said, "I used to think the same thing. I used to think it was cute when my husband flirted with other women and they flirted right back at him. I used to think I shouldn't let it bother me.

"I don't think that way anymore.

"The biggest problem is this: Getting those sexual zings of attention is exactly like a drug to many, many people, both male and female.

"As with any drug, you soon need bigger and bigger and bigger hits to get the same thrill.

"It isn't long before just getting a smile or a reaction out of the waitress or the co-worker isn't enough.

"To get the same zing, you have start spending more and more time with that cute co-worker.

"You have to start going to breaks with them.

"You have to start putting them in your car and driving them off-site for lunch.

"You have to start taking them with you on your business trips

"You have to start taking them to dinner

"And to shows

"And sightseeing

"And to bars

"And drinking with them

"And you have to walk back with them to their hotel because it would be rude if you didn't

"And you have to start lying about all this every single day to your spouse or your significant other so they won't find out and interfere with you getting your harmless fun zings

"And you get to find out what all that lying and unaccounted time does to your spouse's ability to trust you

"And you get to find out what happens to a marriage when you have destroyed your spouse's trust with lies."

The place was dead quiet. The three high-school girls were sitting on the edge of their chairs and their eyes were huge.

"Well, I really didn't mean to bring the panel down like this. I just want to point out that there is a MASSIVE difference between being friendly and courteous to someone and and being a flirt - and that if you don't understand the difference, you *will* destroy good relationships."

At this point the high school girls jumped up and said, "Yeah, we know what you mean! The guys at school are awful! They are all over us all the time! They DON'T know how to just be friendly or nice! They gotta flirt and push all the time and if we don't do it back they get mean and call us - uh, nasty names!"

I gave them one word: "Boundaries."

"Boundaries define the difference between flirting (sexual) and being friendly (normal)."

"Boundaries."

They all looked very happy and the mom of one of them found me later and thanked me for talking to the girls at the panel the way I had.

Just for the record, I worked as a waitress for a while in an airport coffee shop in San Antonio. I did not mind talking to men who were friendly and courteous, but most of them weren't.

They just wanted to flirt.

Remember, I was young and cute then, and 99% of the men I waited on (most of them wearing wedding rings) would flirt, and flirt, and push and dig for that zing of attention to be returned, and they would get very annoyed and refuse to tip if it wasn't returned.

One of them called me "rude" and "a b*tch" even though the service had been fine. The only problem was I had not returned his flirting.

I hated it. I felt like a wh*re. I wasn't there to serve coffee and food - I was there to provide strange men with zings of attention and flirtation and THAT'S what they were tipping me for.

My husband behaves the same way. How many times have I heard him say, "Oh, well, this one's getting negative tip points" - and it is ALWAYS because she refuses to flirt with him. I have always been sitting right there and seen this countless times.

It might dawn on a man someday that that waitress or check-out girl he's trying so desperately hard to get that "zing" from is almost certainly somebody's girlfriend or somebody's wife

It might dawn on him that MAYBE she's trying not to disrespect her own boyfriend or her own husband by flirting with YOU.

I can tell you, the vast majority of men behave with waitresses and with ANY OTHER WOMAN IN A SERVICE JOB exactly like my husband does.

They behave like it's part of that woman's job to flirt with them and provide them with zings of sexual attention no matter what she's really there for - and if she won't do that, she's a rude b*tch and it's negative tip points for her.

I have been subjected to this many, many, many times by married men and I ALWAYS hated it.

I was happy to be friendly and courteous to men who were also behaving in a friendly and courteous manner AND WHO TREATED ME WITH RESPECT, but I quickly started DESPISING the ones who insisted that I return their flirting - that I give them a nice little sexual zing of attention along with the rest of the service - or they'd refuse to pay.

To me, that's how you treat a wh*re. And I honestly don't think these men have the first clue of how to relate to a woman any other way.

Why is it that places like Hooters and casino bars and even the geisha in Japan are so bloody popular?

Because those women are PAID to flirt with men as part of the service. When men go in there, they can be guaranteed of having their flirting returned and getting those zings of sexual attention that some of these rude frigid b*tches working in restaurants and in other service jobs (like me) just won't provide.

All they have to do is pay for it.

The trouble is, there are plenty of women who WILL respond to flirting because they've learned that it will give them whatever they want

Like tips

Like money

Like attention

Like gifts

Like lunches

Like dinners

Like trips

Like Broadway shows

Like evenings in fancy sushi and sake bars

Like promotions

These women ARE wh*res in ever sense of the word. They care nothing about the husbands or fiances or boyfriends they might have at home - they are absolutely willing to trade flirting, sexual attention, sucking up and often a whole lot more to ANY man who is in a position to give them anything on the list above.

He can be a total stranger or he can be their boss - they do not care as long as they get what they want from that list.

And boy, do they ever get it.

But women like me, if we try to insist on being treated with courtesy and respect at all times, are

frigid
rude
a b*tch
nasty
controlling
need help
need medication
need to find somewhere else to live

And get ignored in favor of the wh*res.

I am happy to treat other men with friendliness, courtesy and respect.

I will NOT flirt with them because I an a married woman and it is NOT part of my job to provide strange men with zings of sexual attention.

So, somebody come in here and defend flirting among married people. Go ahead, make my day!
Mulan

I just don't know what to do to make her see that i'm serious. Short of "making" her quit her job, What else do i do that won't hurt our kids. She is not taking me serious, obviousley. I don't have enough backbone, love her too much..bla bla bla.

Thanks Star*Fish, i've been a student here for almost a year, read all of the books, can't make her see I'm serious. We've never had ANY problems. Now we have one that is killing me, and i can't get through to her that i cannot do this forever, something has to give, and its been me for a year now.

Did you tell OM's W about the EA last year? If you didn't, your WW may have taken it as your condoning her EA. You have to decide how badly you want your marriage and tell this woman what her WH and your WW are up to. Don't enter into it without proof. His BW will certainly end your WW's employment. His BW will be your best ally in this. What you don't see, she will. Take the stand, but don't grovel to your WW. Best wishes GF

She needs to leave that job immediately.

Also, I would bet the house the affair has been physical.

There is no way she mistook my inaction for condoning, but i see your point. I thought that if we were as close as i thought, and if we cared about each other as we always did, she would simply stop. What i should do is what i would do if i was not afraid...it's a move that could go either way, i just keep waiting for her to get a grip on what she says she wants, our marriage.

why do you believe it has been physical? I have been intercepting email for almost a year, i always believed i would see a clue it there...granted, it is the last thing i would let myself believe. Don't know if i could repair that if it happened.

Sorry.....didn't mean to upset you. I think physical isn't only sex. Physical is "touch" too. Massage would fall into that category. It's one of the things that will quickly escalate the level of the affair.

Didn't upset me!!! I have read alot of your posts and found yours to be valuable. I just see how this has evolved from touchy feely flirting to borderline sexual talk between the two of them, this after she said it would never happen again for the third time. I'm just afarid also that i don't or won't. or don't want to recognize a sign that it is physical...the massage never took place, just suggestive.

Z, we all hear you, the fear is paralyzing, isn't it. We've all felt that fear, the fear of the unknown reaction. The fear of our being rejected. The description you give as to how you think she feels about you, should give you some hope of her being very remorseful.Some WW's are in their BH's face about what they are doing. Try to conquer your fear. But really, expose this to his wife quickly.((((Z))) GF

Paralyzed is a great word to describe what its like. Funny how i love her so much that i'm afraid to hurt her for the sake of our marriage. I FEEL GUILTY! She says she very sorry, i'm not sure that she can help it, scarier yet! I do appreciate everyone allowing me to vent here, and this board has helped me more than anything to get through while still maintaing some sainity.. Thanks everyone.

zeke,

Here's what you know. Your wife is flirting with this guy. I sent you the other stuff....because in spite of what your wife will try to tell you....there is nothing HARMLESS about flirting. Flirting is always sexual and it's selfish....not mention VERY disrespectful to you. "Harmless" is one of those adjectives that always seems to get attached to "flirting". So let me ask you this...Do you feel hurt, fearful, unhappy? How is that harmless? It's only harmless if your wife completely ignores the harm you're feeling right now. Can you talk to your wife about how YOU feel (not about how it feels from her end) and help her understand why it isn't "harmless". And if you can't convince her....would you consider asking her to discuss it here?