I kind of agree with ML on this, up to a point. I think it goes hand in hand with the question: do you want to be right, or do you want to be married?

Her complaints may or may not seem reasonable, however, simply ignoring them doesn't seem to be making things any better does it? In order for you two to find happiness in your marriage, change is going to have to occur, I think that much you will agree with. Your W has emotionally checked out of the marriage, fair or not, SHE is not going to change first, that's just reality. She's also unlikely to change quickly in response to the changes you make, and its possible that she won't change at all. The question is do you want to try? And maybe you don't, that's fine too. But doing nothing and expecting something is pretty unrealistic.

gabo, which category would you place yourself?

Freeloader is unwilling to put much effort into the care of his or her partner in a romantic relationship. He or she does only what comes naturally and expects only what comes naturally. It's like a person who tries to live in a house without paying rent or doing anything to improve it unless the person is in the mood to do so.

Renter is willing to provide limited care as long as it's in his or her best interest. The romantic relationship is considered tentative, so the care is viewed as short-term. It's like a person who rents a house and is willing to stay as long as the conditions seem fair, or until he or she finds something better. The person is willing to pay reasonable rent and keep the house clean but is not willing to make repairs or improvements. It's the landlord's job to keep the place attractive enough for the renter to stay and continue paying rent.

Buyer is willing to demonstrate an extraordinary sense of care by making permanent changes in his or her own behavior and lifestyle to make the romantic relationship mutually fulfilling. Solutions to problems are long-term solutions and must work well for both partners because the romantic relationship is viewed as exclusive and permanent. It's like a person who buys a house for life with a willingness to make repairs that accomodate changing needs, painting the walls, installing new carper, replacing the roof, and even doing some remodeling so that it can be comfortable and useful.

Tyk wrote:
I just want to point out that these are not MY POINTS, but DR HARLEY'S POINTS. I only know how to sell soft drinks, whereas Dr Harley is a credentialed psychologist with 35 years of successful experience saving marriages. All I know is what I learned from him and that his principles DO WORK. I have a great, PASSIONATE marriage today because of what I learned from him. His principles WORK.

Melody, if there was any progress in his wife I would agree with you. But, gab has made many attempts, ALL rebuffed by the wife. That clearly shows she has no interest in him.

Harley states, "More than anything else, your wife wants to be in love with you.."

Well, if that were the case, she would have reacted in some postive way by now, but that hasn't happened. The wife has all the signs of being incredibly selfish, and apparantly has no intention of opening up.

Not all marriages can, or should, be saved. If all Gab has told us is accurate, this one gets my vote to terminate. He could kill himself trying to make her happy and she would still complain. Not worth it, not at all.

Interesting thread! I know that Gab is no longer participating (and anyway this is a bit of a thread jack) but I just wanted to say that I can soooo relate to the way Mrs Gab feels. When we started working with the Harleys, we discovered that my WH was doing so many LBs that I had reached the point where there were no ENs that I wanted him to meet. None! Gab's wife and I could have been identical twins.

Now the problem was that, even after reading the books, neither of us recognised the LBs we were doing.

Who would have thought that telling me every single stupid day that I am a damaged person because I was adopted was an LB? I didn't realise it and even the vets who posted on my thread never picked up on it.

Just getting him to shut up on that one was like coming out of the darkness into midsummer daylight.

I'm betting money that there's something like that going on in Gabo's M. He doesn't know it and probably she doesn't either but I'm betting it isn't the bandanna :-)

Gab, I'm feeling a little puzzled as to why YOU want to be married to Mrs. Gab.

What you've described is a relationship where your share is wall-to-wall punishment. I can't see a single loveable characteristic in your description of your wife.

Yet you seem to be desperate to keep the marriage going, and you haven't mentioned children or other factors as the reason. You claim to really want your wife, and it's your WIFE who apparently feels she must stay in the marriage for religious reasons. That doesn't seem to be your reason for staying. (Cultural stereotyping, I know...but are you both Catholic?)

Something doesn't add up here.

Giving someone everything they want isn't actually loving - you do realise that? If you give in to all your child's requests, you create a spoiled child who also feels insecure - he doesn't know where the boundaries are. He sees your weakness and learns to doubt your competence to stand up FOR him, if you can't stand up against him.

Why do you give into your wife's demands all the time? What's in it for you? What would you have to deal with in yourself if you said 'No' to her?

TA

I disagree. I think he argues with his wife the same way he argues with US here over each and every little item. He thinks some temporary buttkissing is "trying" but its not. He won't even stop wearing the bandana. He has been ignoring her complaints for YEARS and it just finally caught up with him until it is at the point that she hates him. He works long hours, is admittedly "moody" and ignores her complaints. He hasn't been trying AT ALL.

Let me put it another way. I think he has been trying to do it HIS WAY and not in the way SHE NEEDS OR WANTS. Look at how he blew her off over such a simple issue as a bandana? If he argues with us over that mickey mouse stuff, I have no doubt he does with her too.

see, I see it the other way Mel, but get where you are coming from. If she will complain to him about a bandana, I have no doubt about how she treats him.

It sounds to me, based on everything he has said, that she is never satisfied. If he does work around the house...home repair stuff..it isn't to her satisfaction...etc. She just seems like a nightmare mate to me.

He works long hours because she demands a certain lifestyle. I see him as the victim of an overbearing and childish woman.

Hi

I know I've worn out my welcome with some, so be it. I am used to it. I have no problem with people who don't wish to converse with me. I don't converse with them. My wife TRAINED me that way.

I am staying with my wife....simply because she is my wife. I made a PROMISE to her 21 years ago that she would ALWAYS be my wife, THROUGH GOOD AND BAD. Not thru kinda good and kinda bad.

I think God gives you ONE BREAK your whole life. I think he gives you one thing that you PROBABLY don't deserve, but he does it anyway, kinda saying "hey, listen, this I am giving to you as a gift, something to help you in life, something special". Thats my baby, thats my wife. Well, I took this wife and, for some reason, turned her into this, this ....thing that I got living with me now. This being full of rage and hate and selfishness, on the OUTSIDE looking like my baby, on the inside dark and hateful. Now, as I have said in the past, I made many many mistakes, and I didn't act on those mistakes quick enough or at all. These little mistakes, over the years, added up and like an avalanche made up of minute little flakes, is all coming down on my at once, threatening to LITERALLY END MY LIFE. I hate the being I am living with now, I LOVE AND ADORE MY WIFE. I want her back, but, I must agree with posters here, I believe it may be too late. But my vows, ARE MY VOWS. I made a promise, while I looked into her beautiful eyes, and I meant every single word. I just don't know what to do.
I will live with this thing until IT leaves me or I die...... and keep praying every day to get my sweetness back, the one I had and did not deserve, the one I want so badly now.

PS Thanks to all those who truly UNDERSTAND how I feel. If you all knew my wife before this transformation, you would understand what a special human being she was. I will always feel the guilt of changing her, of being the reason she lost all that was so special. Thanks again.

Tyk

Ha! Nice. Do you want to be right, or do you want to be married!! God, thats so true. Man, I want to be married.

Youre right, I think I'm pushing to much to be right.........Thanks.

Well, if that's your choice I respect it. Don't understand it, but not my place to.

Just make sure you do some things for yourself, too, to keep from going nuts.

Good luck, you will probably need it.