My counselor describes my relationship (and wife) like a vegas slot machine. I keep putting quarters in the slot and just when I'm about to run out I'm rewarded with another handful of quarters. I'm staying because like many gamblers I'm hoping for the big payout that will in all likelyhood never come.

I recognize my own role in this ongoing saga. At the same time, my priority is and has always been my daughter and to some degree my own need to be with her and a part of her daily life. I don't come here often, but this is one of the few places where I feel that I am not alone.

Mel, I've specifically asked my counselor if he thought there was something wrong with me and why won't I leave or why can't I leave my wife. The short answer is, he doesn't feel I'm mentally ill or really screwed up. I'm just a nice guy trying to make the best of a bad situation.

On another note, I spoke with everyone from SH to Dr Harley to my own counselors. Steve is the only one that gave a consistent message. He advised against Plan B when you and others on the board were recommending it. He didn't feel that it was time for a divorce when his father recommended it (though he understood why he recommended it).

Sorry, I kind of feel like I was rambling on this post.

Gto, there are more than a few of us on this board who have stayed in very poor marriages because, for whatever reason, we could not bring ourselves to leave.

I am one, and I could name a few other very long-time posters off the top of my head, too.

It is an option, but you will be settling for crumbs. You have to learn to accept that the Vegas slot machine will never pay out - it will just keep on taking your quarters and dollar bills as long as you are there, and will give you nothing in return but emptiness.

(Great analogy by the counselor, by the way.)

We should probably start a thread for those of us who know damn well we should have left years ago, but just could not bring ourselves to do so. I think there are more of us here than many people realize.
Mulan

And a nice guy who just refuses to accept reality. That is sad that your counselor would encourage you live a life of unhappiness based on unrealistic expectations in a very dysfunctional marriage. Illusions don't make people happy. Abuse does not make people happy. But, you already know that.


GT, I feel certain that if SH told you go into Plan B and get a divorce you would find a way to reject his advice too, since that is not what you want to hear. Dr. Harley, a LICENSED PSYCHOLOGIST with 35 yrs experience, told you to get a divorce and you rejected his advice.

However, I don't think that SH meant for you to remain in a marriage like this FOREVER, and that seems how you have wrongly interpreted his message. I seriously doubt he ever told you: DON'T EVER GO INTO PLAN B or GET A DIVORCE. That makes no sense. But it does make sense to someone who is only seeking to hear what he WANTS TO HEAR: an affirmation of the status quo.

But that is your preogative, GT, it is your life. You have every right to live it as you choose. You don't have to justify your choices; you don't have to pretend you are doing it because STeve or John or Bubba told you to do it. You are a grown man who makes the decisions for his life. The buck stops with YOU. The man in the mirror.

But what you can't do is complain when you have CHOSEN to live in a marriage where you KNOW your wife has no respect or love for you and feels entitled to use you. It is YOU who made a conscious choice to live like that. Not Dr Harley, not your pastor, not Steve Harley, not we stupid board members who tried to help you, not anyone. You can't blame others for your choices, GT.

GT,

I don't think there's anything wrong with you either. I think you weighed the conflicting advice of many counselors and did your best to make the right choice. However, in view of this newest example of poor boundaries....what do you want to do now? When you truly come to the realization that the machine is rigged....you'll stop putting quarters into it. But why skip the Plan B step? If you've lost faith in the marriage, but are not ready for a divorce....there's still a step you can take that will protect you, give you self respect, stop enabling you wife....and still leave the door open for the marriage.

Mel, did I offend you in some way???

Grove, I completely understand the desire to remain in your daughters DAILY life. I stayed with my son's mom for far too long, and couldn't understand why. When I finally hashed it out, it was only because of my beautiful boy.

I knew that if I left his mom, I would be out of my boy's daily life for good, and that she would try to keep him from me. Well, our wonderful court system has let a lying narcissist convince them I am the bad guy, with nothing but her word as evidence. Now, I am almost completely removed from that sweet boys life, and it kills us both.

So, I can see where you are coming from. I don't know what good staying would have done for me, I only know that I am far better off, but my boy isn't.

And it makes me cry every day. BTW, I'm no crybaby.

Maybe there's some way for you to stay in that situation but remove yourself from the WW's drama, just to protect your heart. Don't support it, but also don't let it kill you. I only bring this up for your and that sweet girl of yours' sanity.

Ain't nothin' wrong with you, you just care. Obviously more than the WW. It's taken me a long time to trust another woman again.

never mind..

The words "personal integrity" came 2 mind just now. While ol' 2long was staying in his poor marriage, it was for that reason as well as, initially, some selfish weak reasons, 2. I wasn't ready 2 leave, and I hadn't "earned" a divorce. I think I have now, but now I don't need one!

I don't remember gto's story all that well. I should probably look it up. The timing of events may be important in helping him figure out where he is in his process.


I'm not sure such a thread would be very productive, though it should be. I should definitely have left, or thrown my W 2 the curb, in 2002. She even asked me, on d-day, if I wanted her 2 go 2 a motel for a while. I said "no" at the time (which from an MB standpoint was the RIGHT answer, but I gave it for the WRONG reason - I was NEEDY). I think it would have taken months or even years less time for us 2 get in2 recovery, but we have.

I'll let gto decide where he's at, but he does definitely need 2 make that determination. As did/do we all.

-ol' 2long

Your W sounds a lot like my ex - not only was she carrying on an affair with a coworker, but towards the end, she started all sorts of inappropriate e-mail exchanges with male coworkers and acquaintances - words like "Sweetie, boyfriend, etc" flowed very freely. So boundaries have never been her strong suite either.

Still, I understand your situation, because I can totally relate to this:


What the female posters may not appreciate, despite their best efforts to help you, is that in the case of divorce, the father more often than not ends up losing not only the wife, but the kids too. So I can see why you are so reluctant to divorce.

OTOH, sitting in this limbo, being disrespected every day like this, is excrutiating, BTDT. And long term, that is going to drive you nuts. So I think you must do something to change the situation - maybe not divorce, but something with boundaries - Plan B sounds like a good option, perhaps.

Plan B will not guarantee that you save your marriage, of course - but it will stop the pain and the draining of the love bank. It will give you some freedom to breathe, and will help you see things more clearly. Only when I moved to Plan B did I feel that relief. I still ended up divorced, but it was better than allowing my ex to call all the shots ad infinitum.

Anyway, I can understand your desire to stay in your daughter's life, it is an admirable goal. But you should not sacrifice yourself in that endeavor - you can still be a good father to her by divorcing yourself from the toxic situation you are currently in, and then focusing on your daughter, without having to walk on eggshells around your W.

Just some thoughts,

AGG

A junior high sweetheart? Cheaters never cease to amaze me.


Did she attend daycare as a small child? If so, you might want to watch out for that one boy who used to pull on her pigtails and call her "dookiehead". He might decide to look her up one of these days.

grove,

Check in and tell us you are doing ok

thanks to all of you who have tried to understand my situation. I am struggling daily with the decision of whether to leave my wife or stay for my daughter's sake and my own need to be involved in her daily life. My heart says stay and on most days my brain says run. My wife once again says she knows she was wrong, it won't happen again, blah, blah, blah. I have no need to hear the same old line. To be very honest, I don't now how I can possible stay married to this woman any longer. How do you forgive someone who isn't asking for forgiveness? How do you stay married to someone that would do something like this again, only two years after the first incidence.

I thought some of you might get a kick out of the letter I sent to the OM and his response. His response actually surprised me.

I'll start with his reply and then my letter.

_________________________________________

GrovetuckyOhio,

I apologize for crossing the line with WW, and for what damage you, or your marriage may have incurred by it. It won't happen again. I know you probably can not accept this apology, and I understand that. I have thought about your comments below. Most of which are warranted. I would only like to know that you have received this apology.


Sincerely,
New OM

______________________________

My original email to the new OM.

New OM,

By now I am sure you are aware that it recently came to my attention that you began an email dialog with WW concerning the fact that you are still carrying a junior high crush on her and that you would be interested in meeting her for lunch, dinner or a weekend.

I would like to say that I am surprised by this and even WW’s response, unfortunately and sadly I am not. Seeing as you have been divorced twice and watching your interaction with your girlfriend during the class reunion getaway weekend I am not at all surprised that you would be seeking out your junior high girlfriend and/or a married woman for a relationship.

WW has promised that there is nothing to be concerned about, that she would never date you or see you in a romantic way even if we were to divorce. But I am aware that her response to you would or might indicate something different. I think a fair analogy would be that you went fishing and you got a bite. So you figured what the heck, you might as well stick some more bait on there and see what you can catch.

While you have obviously crossed the line of social and moral decency by trying to have a relationship with a married woman, I have to be honest when I say I am not surprised. As I remember, I did not have a very high opinion of you when we were kids growing up and as it turns out I think even less of you as an adult. I am truly saddened and sickened by the fact that someone like you has involved themselves in my life in any way.

If WW wishes to have a relationship with you, that is her right. I would not consider getting in her way if she were to choose to leave me for you or any other man. All I ask is that she is honest, does nothing behind my back and files for divorce so that my daughter and I can move forward with our lives.

As for your comments concerning WW and my wedding and how you got lost dancing with her and how she told you that you were her first true love, etc . . . That’s a tough one since neither WW or I have any recollection of you being there or being invited to our wedding.

Finally and most importantly I would like to address your comment concerning your feelings towards not having children and how you often think of WW and daughter. I have to scratch my head on this one and assume what you seem to be implying here. That comment might be the exclamation mark on what kind of person you are. So I will put this in the strongest terms possible, you are to never bring my daughter up again. Not to WW, not to friends, not to anyone. For as long as WW and I are still married, you are to never go near my daughter or my wife for that matter. You neither have the character or the intellect to be involved in my daughter’s life.

For now I believe I have said all I have to say on this matter and I am content to wait to see how you handle this situation and if needed make the necessary and appropriate decisions based on your actions.

Grovetuckyohio