I think my biggest problem besides the AOs is that I am an "avoid trouble" liar. I never thought of it is lying, but I guess it's lying by omission?

Omitting personal history details? DH can only handle so much, then he asks me to stop. He thinks of me as an innocent. I never made myself out to be that way. There are many more things I need to tell him, but he does stop me. So I'll be stymied there for a while.

However, that doesn't mean there isn't plenty I'd like to hide. There is something about my sexual history that he found out by asking -- he was expecting a no. My answer was, "I don't want to talk about it," so he knew it was yes.

Do you know what's happened since then? He has been angry about my experience since then, made several remarks.

And, anytime he doesn't want to answer a question, which is plenty, he says, "I don't want to talk about it." To everyone. Just from that one incident. That's how badly it affected him.

To tell him the rest of my sexual history? It would send him through the roof. I think it would help him be better prepared. I know about his. Why shouldn't he know about mine? I am stopped at two points a) he doesn't want to know and b) if I do tell him, I pay for it.

I have been doing a lot of heart-searching. I think many of my avoid trouble truths comes not only from my sexual history, but also my personal hitory.

I am a water girl. He hates beaches.

I love to camp. He hates it.

I am a city girl. He is a country boy.

I am a job hopper. He's been at the same job for thirteen years.

I am a relationship jumper (max out at five years.) He stayed in the same relationship for ten years.

I am a rolling stone. I have moved 25 times in my 40 years. I do not get very attached to a city or a place. I am thinking, "What new experience is around the corner? How many years will I stay in this town?" He has lived in the same little country town for 13 years and loves it.

I love to go to fancy parties with linens, flowers, the works. Had those kinds of friends and parties in the past. His friends are yucky. Some are good people, but some are complete slime. (DJs, DJs.)

Yes, I am snobby. So is he. But in a different way, so he judges my snobbiness. My snobbiness is just a part of me; I love all kinds of people. I just like things to be NICE if you know what I mean.

My recreational needs are not being met. I am very social. Completely cut off here. Tried church, I feel tackled. Want to work, lawyer says no, not yet. Want to travel to my hometown, but no, overnight stays are not a good idea. Same with visiting my mom, would require an overnight stay. With my husband threatening to divorce me, yes, I am afraid to leave right now. Don't want him to use my visit as an opportunity to say, "Don't come back."

I feel trapped. Even when I am working, driving myself to exhaustion, I still want to be free. I keep thinking, if I occupy my mind, I'll forget about these things. But I'm not forgetting. I'm remembering them more and more and more.

So I find myself being dishonest over and over again. "What are you thinking about honey?" I'm thinking there's a wedding, I want to go, husband won't want to. "Nothing honey."

"You're lost in thought again." I'm thinking I want to go to the beach. I am DYING to go to the beach. I WILL NOT BE ABLE TO SURVIVE ONE MORE DAY WITHOUT GOING TO THE BEACH. And I say, "Nothing, honey," because I know he won't go.

I'm trying to think instead where I can find negotiations in these differences. It was the fact that he is so culturally different that he was so attractive. I knew before ever coming to this site that I was a "renter." I wanted to become a "buyer." I thought when I fell so head over heals for this guy, he was the right choice. (Unfortunately, many of our personality flaws are identical; he is an "avoid trouble" liar too.)

I thought he would save me from dying a rolling stone. It's a hard life. You miss the friends you lose. You miss the jobs you've left. But it's a compulsion. I dated men from all over the globe. I didn't want to miss out on anything. But I'm getting old! I hurt everyday! I have a child now. This rolling stone thing needs to end. I want to establish roots. So I have many, many issues to resolve inside myself. I've been here nearly a year, and I can feel it coming. "Well, State College, PA is supposed to be good for single moms." Or, "If I moved to xyz (where I've never lived before of course,) I'd be closer to my son."

It's wanderlust! I don't know how to fight it on my own, but if I read these books and learn to love my marriage, I will have a lot more incentive to care.

I do suspect my husband really deeply loves me and cares for me. He does take good care of me financially and physically. He is providing for all of my medical care. He has some really great traits. We are in a patch of a highly-charged time. There have been easier, more pleasant times.

I think one reason I feel so compelled to do housework and more than my share of the other work is that I feel guilty. I used this man as the stepping stone out of my last city. He was the easy way out. I thought because I was head over heels for him, that justified it. But inside myself, I deal with a lot of guilt. It's true, I loved him, but I wanted OUT. I had had my fill of that city, I was thinking of leaving before I met him. It was my talk of leaving that brought on his offer. Wow, it feels strange typing this. This is something I haven't talked to anyone about.

Lots and lots of "avoid trouble" lying.

{{{vs}}}

I wish I could fix things for you. If it really is just wanderlust, by all means, work on yourself and the marriage with MB stuff. At any rate, doing it will make you feel better about yourself. But if it's not just that, I hope you can be honest with yourself about whether you belong. Don't just accept something because he provides a lot. You won't survive. Trust me.

But if you really do want to stay...
Start by being honest. It truly is one of the keys to happiness. I promise. He deserves to know how you feel. And if he gets angry that you aren't head over heels in love with him right now...well, that's his anger to own, not yours. You're doing what a W is supposed to do - being honest and sharing herself with her H. The next move would be up to him.

Plus, he might surprise you.

The strange thing is, I am head over heels in love with him.

[Added]

It wasn't until I read this section of the book that I started realizing just how often he asks some variation of what I'm thinking or what I'm doing at least once a day. Not in a domineering way. In a genuinely interested way. And how often I blew him off, fearing his reaction if I told him. I had no idea how big a problem this might be for him. Just no idea.

He asked again this morning. I told him what I was thinking. I was thinking how much my mom used to yell at me as a child. He said you should call your mom. I think he's right. I think I will call her. Much better than, "Nothing, honey," right? I think his response was supportive and loving.

I thought my only problem was AOs. Little did I know. Reading this book, LB, can be very upsetting when you find you are doing things quite unknowingly that damage your marriage each and every day.

One thing about boundaries: I have been setting boundaries. But instead of setting good, healthy EVERYDAY boundaries, I was setting emergency stop gap boundaries. So I am working at introducing one new boundary, letting him go through the anger reaction, then the contemplation phase. Most of the time he sees my point in the long run.

He stopped gaping at women. He stopped making arrogant remarks. He did both of these at my request. I have to be more fair in my memory and way of thinking, because only a man who does care would make these changes.

Catperson, I have to thank for constantly emphasizing boundaries. For reminding me that I can leave if the fire gets too hot. For making me really search deep down to figure out whether or not this man cares about me. (My conclusion is yes, I fail to give him credit when credit is due.)

I saw the movie "The Break-Up" yesterday, and it really mirrors our relationship! So we are at the point where we could split up and grow separately. Or stay together and grow and change together.

Thank again <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

This could be me speaking. I was just telling C last week that, when I explained to H that his AOs were scaring our daughter, he immediately stopped. I just had never said so before. I, too, fail to give H credit. I'm working on that. I think that the setting of one small boundary at a time is an excellent idea. It's what I've had to do, because I'm too overwhelmed otherwise to proceed. Depression keeps me from seeing clearly, so I can only focus on tiny steps, so that I can monitor them and see if they work. Think of it like a scientific experiment (sorry, but I have a scientific mindset): you change one factor, see if the whole picture changes; if it does, you know that changing that one factor is a success. If it doesn't you go back and try a different factor.

Sounds like you're coming closer into focus. Good work.

C, DH is changing so much. I stopped the LBs, especially AOs. Your comments inspired me to do more things to show that *I* care about him. It doesn't take long to see changes.

He's more affectionate. Holds me for a long time during the night vs. just a few minutes. Gave me a whopper hug and kiss this morning instead of a peck. He needs these changes every bit as much as I do.

I'm changing too. I realized that forcing him to wake me up when he left the house during one of my naps was being controlling. When he left the house without waking me yesterday and found me awake when he got home, he was expecting a fight I'm sure. But I let it go. He told me where he went. I think the only thing I might ask of him in the future is that if he expects to be gone over an hour, to leave me a note. Does that seem fair, non-controlling?

He also wanted to stay on the computer late last night. Usually, I'd stay up pouting till he came to bed. Instead, I cozied up and tried to sleep without him. (Nope, I can't do it yet, but maybe some day I'll learn.) I didn't nag him. I didn't make those impatient noises that people make when they are waiting in bed. He came to bed and asked me if I'd been sleeping. I could have lied and said, "Yes," overdoing my Giver, but I told him the truth, "No, but it felt good laying here."

One positive side affects of me going through a timeframe of AOs is that he has worked very hard at not yelling at me. That means a lot to me, plus it takes away my internal justification for yelling at him.

I am working on the two hours per day housework thing still. It seems he is not expecting more than 1/2 an hour on his days off, unless it is a household project we are doing together (like last night, we put together furniture and ran a fire in the burning barrel.) So that makes the two hours per day more reasonable to me. It will cut into 'work' time, but he doesn't care about my total profit -- just whether or not I'm wasting time vs. working from home.

On the side of "avoid trouble" lying, I was avoiding telling him I had to pay an extra fine on a ticket. Would you believe that that notice fell out of my pocket onto the floor, and he picked it up?! He looked at it, smiled, and said, "Naughty girl," then let it go. I was relieved that he found out and relieved that he wasn't angry with me. Maybe he wouldn't have been angry with me if I had told him in the first place!

One of our biggest LBs that we have both been doing -- and is not on the Harley's list -- is PROCRASTINATING. We procrastinate ourselves into a lot of trouble. This causes a lot of discord in our marriage. We both do it, and we both accept blame where blame is due. I think we both realized at the same time that this was reaching a critical point where it could even break us up, and now we are both working on changing this aspect of ourselves.

I thought I purchased HNHN, but turns out I purchased Fall in Love, Stay in Love. Looks like part of it will be a recap of Lovebusters, but needs are also covered. I may end up getting HNHN at a later date, depending on how thoroughly they are covered.

Asking for a note is a great compromise.

Congratulations on the progress. You give me hope, too.

Back in the beginning of my thread, LovingAnyway replied and told me something about me yelling at H. I forget what she said, but it was enlightening and might be worth rereading.

Two crisis situations came up two days in a row. I didn't blow up. He didn't blow up. We worked together as a team and got through them.

I was annoyed though when he got stuck in the driveway after I warned him several times there there were ice mounds at the end of the driveway. He said, "You could rip me a new one, or you could let it go." I said, "It's not about ripping you a new one. It's about the fact that I only ask for help when I need it. You know that about me." (I do most of the shoveling simply because I enjoy it, but asked him to help me with the ice chunks.)

I think I am going to use that as a refrain in our marriage, "You are aware that I only ask for help when I really need it," so that maybe he WILL help me instead of procrastinating or ignoring me. I don't ask him to do every little tiny thing for me like some women do. I try to be self-sufficient. But now and then I need his strength and/or energy.

I realized last night that I'm not meeting his need for admiration. Sure, I compliment him a lot. But when he fails, I can be too hard on him. Plus, I let snide little remarks slip out when I am annoyed.

Can disrepecting our car be called an annoying habit? Because he is driving me UP a wall. Leaves trash and soda cans in the car. Treats it like a garbage can. Abuses it. Only once in all this time helped me clean it. I want a CLEAN car. I take it to the car wash. I vacuum it. I like it to be CLEAN whenever we have a special trip to the city. And he SMOKES in the car. Disrespecting the car is a BIG annoying habit that I somehow need to discuss with him. His trying to jam it over ice -- even when I warned doing so could damage the undercarriage (and cost me money!) -- he STILL did it. He was quite sheepish about it, and no, I didn't lay into him. But I am realizing since reading the sections on annoying habits, that this is a 9 out of 10 on my meter of annoyance.

10 out of 10 on my annoyance meter is his blowing me kisses. Not only do I hate it because he blew kisses to his EX-WIFE, but also because it makes him look effiminate and arrogant. But I can't tell him that in those DJ words <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />!!! How can I get him to stop when he hasn't read the books yet? I'm repulsed everytime he does it, and he thinks it meets an affection need in me. GROSS! I'm not married to a girl. (Don't worry, he's very hetero.)

Last night, we were watching a movie when a sexual topic came up. He said, "I don't want to know how many men you xxxxxx!" I wasn't the one talking about it, it was the tv?! But the mere mention of this sexual topic got him upset. I told him that I have only one man in my life now, but then I accidentally let a snide remark slip out! It was seriously by accident, but having read these books, I realize he is super-sensitive about that type of remark. (So am I.) I felt really bad about it and will avoid these kinds of snide remarks in the future.

I'm finding his snide remarks are really hurting his LB with me because Admiration is in my top five for sure (thus the career in sales, where you get to shine.) I'm trying to gentle suggest alternate ways for him to say things he needs to say to me. He says he will have more faith in me as long as I prove myself to him. Well, I'm working on the proving myself thing, but I still need more support and Admiration.

Since the medication, his need for SF has dropped below DS. This is very hard on me because SF is still #2 on my list. I have to stand firm on the 3 day thing; now and then, he tries to slide it to 4. One thing he needs to know, and won't let me tell him, is that I have had affairs in the past. I am very committed to our marriage and have zero real plans to have an affair, but when I don't get enough SF, I find myself panicking about the future: what if it gets worse and worse? What if I get less and less? What if ...? And my mind starts to wander. Even though the quality of SF is fine.

I do miss kissing though. He claims he doesn't like it, only does it at the beginning of a relationship, when he feels the initial passion. If he only knew ... even one mind-blowing kiss a month would keep me faithful. Just one or two good kisses a week would keep me happy.

But I suspect he believes it's all or nothing with me, so he digs his heels in and rarely kisses me (French) at all. I think he fears I will FORCE him to do it more if he does it once, but that isn't true. He can lead. But just once a month: mind-blowing. 1-2 per week: French. And I will be happy, content with him. When I respond to the questionaire, these will go down in writing. But in the meantime, I suffer. No DJs right now. His confidence is suffering, and it's mostly because of that dang medication -- which is critical to his life. I MUST be patient. That is on me as a wife.

And I have no idea yet whether or not he will address these books with me yet. At this point, he is letting me leave them in various places around the house. I am hoping he will take a look when I'm not home.

You're doing really well. Very aware.

"You know what I was just thinking? That if you came up to me and said XYZ, it would get me all kinds of puppy dog happy. Cos I realize now, after reading in that book I showed you, that I work better when things are expressed a certain way. For instance, if my boss says ABC it makes me want to ignore him; but if he says it this way - XYZ - for some reason it makes me see the reasoning behind it and makes me want to do it that way. I bet that would work with us, too. What do I say to you that rubs you the wrong way? And what would be a better way for me to say it? I promise to try to remember to do it that way from now on, cos I'm committed to doing this stuff right."

I had to put a travel trash bag in my car to keep my H from trashing it like he does his own car. I tried putting one in his car, but he won't use it. But he's learned over the years that if he doesn't put his trash in the trash bag, I put it back in his lap. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Actually, he does the same thing in the house, and guess what I do? I pick up his trash, and I place it in his 'places' around the house, places I don't clean, so he gets to live with his own trash, until he's ready to throw it away like a grownup.

I think asking your H about his feelings about SF and history would be a great topic. During a safe time, ask him how he feels about it, and what he's afraid of. Add in a dose of reassurance, but let him know you're fully invested. And a good time to read out what you wrote about the kisses. Tell him you put it in your journal, but the more you thought about it, the more you thought he needs to know it - that if you could just get one good kiss a week, you're good to go, and how much it would mean to you.

Thank you for the tips. I am starting to do this, beginning with annoying habits. I told him this weekend that if I do anything that drives him up a wall, I'd like to know about it because I'd be willing to change.

Just as it says in the FILSIL book, he didn't have a list. But he did mention one thing: He doesn't like it when I call him a computer geek and say he is on the computer ALL the time. I wasn't even aware I was doing this. I'm so glad he mentioned it, because now I can make extra sure I don't do that. I am on the computer a lot; that is really the kettle calling the pot black!

I had a chance to tell him that the blowing kisses was driving me up a wall. I worded it this way, "Honey, I love you, but I sure don't love it when you blow kisses. I love you a lot, and I DO love it when you kiss my forehead, but I just don't love the blowing kisses thing."

Day one: he blew fewer kisses. Day two: He blew a LOT of kisses. (Note: this can happen when someone starts to get conscience of an annoying behavior -- don't give up.) I reminded him that it was annoying by saying, "Honey, it's like fingernails on a chalkboard to me." Day three: He made a real effort not to blow kisses and substituted a lot of kisses to my forehead, hair, etc., which I LOVED.

Wow! We may be on the road to no more blown kisses. I did NOT degrade him. I did NOT mention the ex-wife. I did NOT say it was effiminate. I just told him what I wrote above. It is very hard, trust me, not to add disrespectful judgements. But I took the Harleys advice, unwrapped the annoying habit from the DJs, and stuck with the core issue.


LOL! I am not ready to address the car yet (but I will keep these tips in mind <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />) -- because DH is trying so hard in other areas right now. I am giving him credit in my heart and mind now. In fact, it's to the point now where it is completely undeniable to me that he cares, it is so crystal clear.


It is strange. I have to address sensitive topics a little at a time. During bathtime (we takes baths together to consvere water,) we started discussing sex. I reiterated how I thought the medication was the culprit, but he said he thought it was stress, not the medication. In my heart, it is easier to believe it is the medication, not me, not our life, that is causing the problem of lower libido. So this time, instead of cutting him off or insisting I was right, I really listened, asked him about what kinds of stress, etc. He did not talk long, but I got little hints about his stressors.

One misconception he has is that I'm a nymphomaniac. I pointed out to him that wanting sex every three days is not that unusual. If the national average is 2.5 times a week, asking for it less than that is really not that bad.

We were having a good evening, I thought. Then I became very randy. Per his rules, I may not ask for sex. I decided, instead of being physically near him, where desire was driving me crazy, I would go to the bedroom to read a book until the desire passed.

He asked me where I was going, so -- remember that I am trying to overcome "avoid trouble dishonesty" -- I said in a non-hurtful, non-judgemental tone, that I was feeling randy, and that I was going to the bedroom to read for a while.

After a few minutes, he said, "Ok, I'll give it to you." He didn't seem angry and seemed to enjoy it. But afterwards he was laying on the couch with a stormy look.

I made a comment about something on tv; he said that I only look at relationships in terms of sex. I asked, "Why is that?" with a smile. I didn't know if he was joking or really angry? I didn't think what he said was true.

He said, it's just how you are, but he said it bothered him, and he felt I was "emotionally stunted" for being that way. I listened intently because this was the first time in a long time he was being very clear with me on how he felt.

I asked him what he felt a relationship should be? He said, "Friendship and compatibility." Fearful thoughts of, "OMG, he wants a celibate relationship!" and "OMG, he wants me to be like a platonic friend!" raced through my head, but instead of going *there*, I said some of the things that had been on my mind, too:

"It seems to me that when a woman reaches forty, either her libido completely drops off -- or it goes up. In my case, it went up. And I will admit -- since reading these books -- that SF is #2 on my list of needs in a marriage. But I really do enjoy the things we do together." {I cited several examples.} "And sometimes I think you've blown this sex thing out of proportion. There are many times when I kiss you or hold you, and I don't want or need it to turn into sex. When I kiss you several times before going to sleep, it's because it gives me the feeling of being in love. It doesn't mean I have to have sex."

The conversation dropped off there. I didn't know then that it was a positive conversation. But since he didn't want to talk further, I didn't push it.

But after that, I swear, his libido returned to normal. We had a weekend where many of our needs were met, his RC needs, and my SF needs. It felt soooo good to have my real husband back. Was he withholding because he misjudged me? Is there a happy middle ground for us?

This was the best weekend we've had in a very long time. I felt very reconnected to him. Though we both had a couple of minor AOs, they were minor, and resolved rather quickly.

Its feels good and cozy to be in the state of intimacy. I remind myself to negotiate, don't ignore my Taker. And when I see my husband ignoring his Taker, I remind myself to be fair and balanced in my desires. Not to just take, take, take selfishly.

The philosophies in these books DO work. They are worth every penny. This one weekend was worth several hundred dollars to me, so I consider the books to be an excellent bargain.

Thanks for sticking by my Cat. I want you to feel proud that you have helped me through this. See how much you can add to others lives while still adding to your own life <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />?

Wow. You make it sound so easy! I have hope just reading how well it worked for you. Good stuff.

I can't say it is easy. When I found myself yelling and swearing because he was sneaking cigarettes in the basement near the stock I sell -- and damaging it -- I had to walk myself into the bedroom to cool off. I can't ridicule him into caring about what he's doing to me. (For whatever reason, some smokers can't be convinced their smoke stinks.) I came back out, I said he had to decide what *he* wanted to do, have a smelly house, or smoke outside, but -- whatever the case -- I needed to protect my stock. And I brought it all upstairs. He hates that, so he said he would smoke in the garage until the cold weather was over. I really don't know if I can trust him or not now, but I will put the stock back in good faith. It's up to him to stop himself from damaging it.

So, no, it's not easy. But it does give me pause. I've been reflecting a lot on the past and about how many relationships I may have ruined by "hiding" in overtime. When the things got rough, I just stopped coming home until the businesses I worked at literally closed. One closed at midnight. I would never address problems -- I would just pretend everything was fine.

I'm learning a lot. I have a lot to consider in what my husband said about being "emotionally stunted." In a way, he brought some of it upon himself. When he shared his heart with his ex-wife instead of me, he lost quite a large chunk of my love and trust. Yes, those have been rebuilt somewhat, but it caused me to compartmentalize him into "sex and support" instead of "true love." Can he undo this completely? Yes, with time.

I feel safer thinking of men as sex because if you love them, they can really hurt you. I did have sex without love on certain occasions. I have to consider too that the career I chose was affair-prone (sales.)

I had rules. I would not sleep with employers or clients. But the occasional co-worker? Now a few more months and I can work outside the home again. I have to consider this too. I have to shop for a job carefully, not picking one that is full of single men shopping around.

I had three brothers, raised tradionally and religiously, but had very little contact with girls. Most of my cousins were boys. When I started working, I worked mostly with men. The rare woman I worked with slept with a boss to get their positions. (Sometimes I didn't believe it was true -- but found out later, yes, it really happened.) My secret to promotion was just to show up for work everyday. So many young people these days blow off work. By showing up, I never had to sleep with a boss to get a promotions. But my co-workers assumed I did.

So I can see that I was not raised with the feminine values that most women were raised with -- such as marriage and children. My child happened by accident. My marriage was my commitment to change, to become a buyer instead of a renter, to give up being a rolling stone, to commit to one man and remain by his side the rest of my life.

Lofty goals for someone like me.

In the case of my husband and his very brief EA with ex-wife, I have to learn to forgive and let go. So I am working on that everyday. I am loving that now his love bank with me is full in the morning, in contrast to that time when it kept resetting to zero everyday. I am just going to trust in him not to hurt me that way again. If he does resume contact with his ex-wife, my plan of self-protection is to separate. (And I will initiate contact with his ex-wife's boyfriend.) I believe that I am doing everything I can to bring him happiness. I don't know what more I could do.

The time is finally coming when I will be able to work again.

My husband brought up last night that a job in "Customer Service" will be opening up at his factory. I asked him if he would be embarrassed if his wife worked there? He said, no, but he thought it would be a miracle if I got the job.

So someone in the office is retirning in a couple of months. I'm enthused about applying there. Of course, I am not a shoe-in.

I decided to talk to my husband about what he hopes I will do in terms of a career now. He accidentally started the converstation by saying one of his friends was "hardcore" about the fact that his wife had to work. I took that as a sign it was a good time to discuss this.

When I first moved in with my husband, he had a very difficult time with me not working. He said he'd never dated a woman who didn't work before. No matter how many times I explained I worked full-time from the age of eighteen until I became pregnant in 2000, he could not comprehend my working. I said when the time came -- when our lawyer said I could work again -- I would do whatever was best for us a couple.

He told me several times, "You'd be surprised how little money I need from you to make ends meet."

What happened between? I worked from home. He and I sell rare goods together. His motorcycle payment went away. He found out I really am a conservative with gas and electricity. He found out I'm not a terribly expensive woman. He found out our side income/his mad money was enough to keep him in the cds/electronics he wanted for himself.

Custody changed. I lost child support. The loss of money didn't affect us that much.

So we are making ends meet. Not perfectly, but we are happy, and we have what we need. We have food, shelter, clothing and entertainment.

Today, I asked him what direction he'd like me to take? I said if I took primary custody of my son again, I could see working a part-time job but not a full-time (health issues on my part.) But if he stayed primary with his father, that I could see myself working full-time. On the other hand, if I took even just a few college courses, I'd be more marketable.

Do you know what he said?

"Whatever you do, you'll do it. If you decide to be a housewife, you'll be a housewife. If you decide to work, you'll work."

But what direction would he want me to take? Is he okay with me being a housewife (work-at-home wife that is)? He wouldn't say! He wouldn't be specific.

He said he'd gotten used to me being at home. So basically, whatever happens, happens.

I saw no negativity coming out of him. I saw no positivity. The only thing that did meet with POJA is that I will apply for the job opening up. He liked the idea of me working at his factory. He said they prefer hiring wive's of employees in the office, so that would give me an advantage. (However, I still expect to be competing against at least 100 applications.)

There are a lot of practical advantages to me not working. His shifts are 12 hours, mine would be 8. I'd have Sat/Sun off; he gets every other weekend. Right now, with me not working, when we shop for rare goods -- or just go out for fun -- we can always do it on the least busy days. If he wants me to bring something to work, he just calls. If he wants me to check something online while he's at work, I'm here. I can take care of things that are difficult take care of on weekends on my own. When working, those reponsibilities would fall on him. The kicker: He'd have to start doing a lot of housework.

The income would exceed my current income, that's for sure. But not by a lot after taxes. Their retirement plan isn't that great, so DH has been investing on the side. The health insurance is good, but it would be the same with or without the job since we are married. The only real disadvantage to not working is that I am not adding to my SS right now. (My income is on misc. income on taxes, and expensed way down as people do with small businesses.)

Is he really neutral on this? Can a man in this day and age be neutral on having a second earner in the household when there aren't primary custody children involved?

He seemed sincere but frustrated that I was asking about it. I cannot guess what would be frustrating about me wanting his real opinion? Of course, in the end, I will do whatever we both feel is best, not just him, not just me.

I guess what I was expecting was a) I want you to look for full-time work ASAP or b) I like it better that you are home, let's keep it that way and focus on earning more via work-from-home income.

Instead, the decision is falling squarely in my lap. And trying to make the decision on my own goes against POJA, doesn't it?

I've read over and over that men are afraid to tell their wives what they 'want' or 'believe' as far as what the wife should do. They feel they're damned if they do and damned if they don't, you know? For some reason, it's one of their biggest panic buttons. He really sounded like he didn't want to tell you because down the road he didn't want to be held responsible for his opinion, if whatever you decide becomes a sore spot between you.

For all the controlling and dictating that my H does, he almost never tells me what to do as regards my job or my looks, oddly enough.

What a weird afternoon. DH spent the morning working around the house with his friend M*. Whenever M is around, my DH tends to act macho. His friend's wife is very controlling, so my DH makes extra sure his friend knows he rules the roost around here.

But... it wasn't that bad this morning. My DH told me he was leaving with his friend and when he'd be back. He even gave me a kiss in front of him. So I thought, cool, he's growing up.

He comes home with that closed off look on his face, like don't you dare question me. Told me I'm going with my friend to xyz home improvement store tomorrow to make some decisions on siding. (That in itself is weird because he like my input on this stuff.) He said he'd be back with books for us to look over.

I asked him XYZ store in [ex-wife's work city]? He said, "Yes." I paused. Then asked, "Are you planning to go anywhere else?" "NO!" I asked why he was raising his voice. He said, "I don't like getting the third degree." Then later said, "You could go with us." I said, "I wouldn't want to intrude."

A few moments pass. I ask, "So you won't need the car tomorrow? Your friend is planning to pick you up?" "No, we were planning to take the car. Just come with us."
(Less angry.) After that, he was in a good mood again.
Weird. He didn't stay mad about it, but he certainly arrived ready for a fight. No calls, texts or emails that I know of. Heck, she might not even be working tomorrow. My DH's friend might not be the least interested in stopping in to see her. Her work city is just a trigger for me right now.

I was especially weirded out because tomorrow is Valentine's Day.

This is probably nothing to worry about all. But I thought I'd record it just in case.

Now his best female friend (second to me of course,) won't stop texting -- and I already picked up the first text by accident (on DH's phone) thinking it was a follow-up to an earlier text from someone else regarding a sale. (When it comes to sales, DH is fine with me picking up the texts when he's napping like now.) Now I have to explain that. I've never even met the woman and find myself having to wish her a happy Valentine's Day. What next?

DH woke up a little morose on Val Day. I don't know what was bothering him, except he hates getting up early on his days off. I wished him Happy Valentine's Day. He said, "Is that today? I thought it was Saturday." "No, it's today." "Is that why you were freaking out yesterday?" "Yes, men usually spend Valentine's Day with their wife." He started to cheer up.

He cancelled his plans with his friend, said we (as a couple, without his friend) would go together to XYZ home improvement on Monday. Since he thought Val Day was Saturday -- and he's working -- he says we'll celebrate Monday -- his day off.

Wow! I never expected him to be so loving about this. He has been loving about nearly everything in general lately. It gives me a very warm feeling to be near him right now.

I guess my big fear is I wonder if he promised to visit ex when he was in XYZ city when they had that contact in December. I haven't specifically said to him, "I plan to file for separation if you resume your friendship with her." Is this something I need to do? Should I let it lie?

The real reason I cannot handle this is my personality. I could not handle being a number two girl in any relationship I've been in, ever. I've never been the type to share a man. So this is just out of the question for me. Seriously, I've tried to force myself to consider it, but, no way, my brain and heart can't comprehend it -- let alone handle it.

So my tolerance for him having a friendship with ex-wife is exactly ZERO. ZERO tolerance. If I hear he has stopped by her work, I will file for separation. I know that I cannot trust him to present me as his wife and lover -- because the first time he confided in her, he made me out to be a friends with benefits (despite the fact that we were engaged and to be married very soon.) I know that I cannot trust him *not* to confide things he never should confide in her -- because he did that the first time. I know that if he said, "You never come up," that is a lie, because I am his wife 24 hours a day/365 days a year, and if he speaks of himself, he is speaking of me.

So I waiver. If I bring this up again, it seems pointless. But is he clear in his head that it's over for me if he resumes it? I would think so. But the fact that I didn't specifically say so?

I keep debating whether -- at this calm and loving time -- if I should bring up a post-nuptial agreement anyway. That in the case that he does any of my three deal-breakers -- affair, very bad thing, and/or resumes friendship with ex -- that I can get out of this marriage reasonably unscathed, with a reasonable amount of money to start over. (I'm not greedy; just a realistic amount for a deposit on apartment, etc.)

You might think I don't love him. But I do. I have a deep and profound love for him. If we ever split up, my heart would be broken. I'm closer to him than any man I've ever been with.

It's just a matter of self-preservation. After so many painful break-ups in my life, if he decides he doesn't want us (or breaks us in two,) I want to land on my feet. I don't want to be unprotected.

A part of me says, I am worrying over nothing. Another part of me says, I've been stung by him before, protect yourself, protect yourself.


This surprises me in DH's case because he was so very adamant that I work outside the home after this was over. He brought it up a LOT. He said he was decided and that was the way it was going to be. He said if I didn't want to work, look for another man. So to say I am floored by this change is an understatement. Even though I had noticed that those original comments faded gradually over the months, I still had no idea this would happen.

So for this to happen with him -- whoa, I am blown away. Simply blown away. I was only really looking for input so we could meet a POJA. I wanted the decisions to be 50/50 with both of us coming out winners. Now I am confused.

At least we have one POJA -- applying for this job opening coming up.

I may be wrong, but it tells me that he is now afraid to be firm in his beliefs. That something has taught him that he needs to question his firmness. Be it fighting with you, something someone else told him, his fear that you might leave if you get fed up, even FOO issues. Who knows? The best way to find out is to ask him! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Maybe it was because he saw my illness first hand for so long? Maybe it's all of the advantages of having me home? Maybe a part of him knows I had problems with men at work, and he doesn't want me to be in those situations anymore? (That would explain why he is so enthused about me working at his factory.) Maybe becaue I did explain to him how I used to be a workaholic, and my mates rarely saw me?

I have to wonder -- because I did try to ask -- and he wouldn't answer me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />!!!

He's weirding me out on this issue.

I totally forgot that a large percentage would go to child support. This would definitely make my at home income exceed after taxes income from a standard job. BUT neither of us have any desire to withhold those monies; we both feel child support is right.

It's just a reality that it would hit our bottom line. I think an interim solution would be to continue generating a profit/loss sheet each month, then take 17% of my profit and voluntarily give it to biodad for child support. It wouldn't be much, but it would be a gesture.

Biodad is well-off for a single man -- with inheritable property -- which is why he isn't concerned.

Bad, bad day yesterday. Our day in court finally arrived. We were stressed out. As usual, when DH is stressed out, he attacks me.

First started by calling his female friend T. to ask her about her party -- rescheduled for April. In his mind, he wants some of these calls to take place in front of me to prove nothing is going on. In my mind, why are you doing this to me today of all days?

After the call with his significantly overweight friend, he went on and on about my bottom, how it's not fat enough, complain, complain, complain. If only you excercised, you could have a big one. (No, sorry, genetics.)

(I'm willing to excercise for him but I have been too overwhelmed to run my own life let alone stick to an excercise routine. Part of the reason I'm so consistently overwhelmed is him!)

So he made me cry. Then he went on about how many times he has complimented my behind. How I have the behind woman wish they could have. He stopped at a gas station and got me water and candy. He comes out of the station holding the water bottle as an erection. I was so humiliated. He thought it was funny. Sometimes his vulgarity is funny; sometimes it isn't. He has replaced the ugly blowing smooches things with a variety of genital references -- which are apparently now going public. He followed this with, "Aren't I the sweetest man you ever knew?"

I said, "Yes," because I know that's what he wanted to hear.

We got to the law building. (At some point, he made a secret phone call, I don't know to whom.) He made a big deal of "updating" his contact list in front of me. His female friend J. -- "She doesn't call me anymore. I'll delete it."

Then surprise, surprise. His ex-lover K. calls. Big changes in the union. Lay-offs, those who remain will be switched to eight hours and lose overtime. My DH would have to go on nights.

What a witch! She got it all wrong and ruined our victorious day. My DH was literally tearing up before our time before the judge -- because of her! Thinking he'd lose his monthly overtime. Remembering how night shift nearly caused us to divorce.

NC for several months, then she drops this bomb on us?

It went great in court. A huge financial burden settled in our favor; we don't have to pay. My DH met the lawyer, and they hit it off, so we can use him again in the future.

We should have been celebrating!

We made a trip to a store that carries stock for our small business. (Now that I think about it, we can write the whole trip off.) DH asked me to ask the owner how to use a product. I relayed the message back to DH; he jumped all over me because he thought my answer was wrong.

This is another problem we have; he wants me to study our business, learn more about the products, how to repair them, etc., but when I bring the info back to him -- that he requested -- he jumps down my throat and does it the old way anyway.

We had a fight about that (how he treats me when he asks for advice.) I think I avoided LBs. I was angry but I did not yell or attack.

Went to a home improvement store. DH was texting a guy back and forth like he was a lover. I understood this was about work, an exception to the rule ... but I'm the one who has to pay for the overages in text messaging, so I panicked a little each time the "beep beep" went off. Another stressor.

DH had just got done telling me he didn't want to do any home improvement projects for a while; he wanted to focus on his stereo. But when he knows he is hurting me, he tends to buy things for me. So he bought new flooring for the kitchen. (I worry sometimes that we have a bad pattern developing in this area; he's mean, he buys something for me.)

While we were at the store, something came out that I'd been expecting -- about marriagebuilders.com. Whenever I'm on this site, he is free to look over my shoulder. But he doesn't. He thinks it's some secret club. As soon as he knows I'm on this site, he starts trying to lure me out of the bedroom. (Which is a good thing actually because this board has become a soft addiction for me.)

I want somehow to reassure him that this site/board has helped me stay in the marriage. But even saying that would upset him. His comment was, very angry tone, "Why don't you spend more time on sites related to our business, rather than that marriage jumpers site!"

Ouch.

But all the meanness aside, he was super-sweet otherwise. We went to dinner and had a few laughs. I treated. I made a comment that really said how I feel about his mean little judgements regarding my body etc, "You are the kind of man that if you were given a million dollars, you would complain that the bills were wrinkled." He didn't respond. I hope the comment wasn't an LB. For me, it was honesty without anger. It spoke to how I really feel about him, how really frustrated he makes me.

Because of the secret phone call and the call from K., I had another sleepless night. "So she's back in our lives?" I wondered. I mean, they used to speak on the phone 2-3 times a day. Though the content of the calls was mundane, it was very inappropriate, probably another form of an EA for him. It was her that ended it, though I did notice he was rarely picking up for her towards the end.

Now contact again? Sheesh. I think of leaving him -- just to get free of the stress and lies that our marriage was built upon. But I can't leave him. A) I love him and b) it's very practical for me to stay.

But just how much do I have to put up with?

He said yesterday, for the first time in a very long time, "I love you like crazy." He's arcing back to true love. Why? Is it the LB deposits I'm making? Do you know they become a habit? What once took effort becomes routine. That's supposed to be a good thing, right?

I'm tired of the sleepless nights. I want my life back. I want to get myself on an official schedule. One good thing came of his work panic; I discussed earning money via one of my hobbies, and now he's for it.

So what happened with his job? He is not going to be one of the crew getting laid off. He is not going to lose his day shift. He is going to 8 hour shifts, five days a week. He won't lose overtime; instead he'll gain.

It's really strange that this happened right now. It wasn't that long ago that I remember making a wish, a sort of a prayer, that my husband would get 8 hour shifts and still be on days. And now that has come true. How strange.

We won't have the final word until mid-March.

I'm so sorry, vs. You have so many things coming at you from so many directions. The only thing I can think to tell you is to set up your boundaries. Then write them down, and hand the list to your H. Tell him that you are unhappy as things are. That you want to stay married, but are having a hard time not being overwhelmed with so many things. Tell him the list is a list of things that you can no longer live with - nothing against him, just things that you can't accept in your life. If they happen, you will have to remove yourself from the equation - leave a room, not participate in something, do things seperately, things like that.

Make it a drive-by. Give him the list on your way to work, tell him you can talk about it when you get home if he wants, and you can clarify what you mean.

If you need help coming up with it, let us know.

Yes, I do need help. I went to his hair salon today -- the one he didn't want me to go to -- because the cuts I got at the other places were disasterous.

I got a good cut. I also got the downlow. In the 9 months that he's been getting haircuts there, he has never (nada, not once) mentioned me. (I had a feeling he had a crush on the cute little brunette that cuts his hair.) I said, "Well, sometimes he's quiet." My stylist said, "No, he's a real chatterbox."

Liar is more like it. Playing single is more like it. I am a fool is more like it.

Yes, I want to write him an email saying that I am just about done here. I have no idea where I'd go or what I'd do --

but since he hasn't been married to me this whole time anyway --

perhaps he wouldn't mind if I started dating?

I am so mad, I don't know how to word it. I texted him what they said. Silance.

I outed him to the girls. I'm his third wife; he lied by omission telling me he was only married once before. He said he could give up his ex-wife's friendship for me; big lie. He said none of his (oh so plentiful) female friends was an ex-lover. Um, lie. The one calling him 2-3 times a day was his affair from his first marriage.

Lies, lies, lies. Even his friends from work that see me for the first time are shocked. "He's married?! Why didn't I hear about that?"

WTH?

I'm a fool. A complete idiot. I don't know wherr to go from here, but something better change, and it'd better change fast.

[Added] I should mention, and actually this is very important, that during his resumed contact with ex-lover, he said, "Thank you for calling me, K., and please keep me updated." To me, he sounded desperate, like he'd been waiting for her call.

Why in front of me? So I could see content was innocent. I don't know if it's better or worse in front of me.

Step A for me: I'm fed up with babysitting. He can police himself. I've already told him he's got to watch his own text counter. I don't care anymore.

Seeing one woman? A dozen? None? I don't care anymore.

I've been trying so hard, and -- all for naught. He's not even married.