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Docp, Junior Member, Reged: Dec 10 2007 , Posts: 12
Re: ***PARTY TIME @ 20-90 Something Thread ***And now for something completely different ~~~ The Recovery VACATION OT THREAD [Re: Chrysalis]
#3391655 - Wed Jan 30 2008 05:41 PM

Quote:
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Ah good old Waseca. The very first time I ever went camping and slept in a tent was in Waseca in 2002. I'm not very rugged and camping in not my bag, so that's pretty big for me.

The 2nd time I was there I was up to no good and I'm pretty sure I'm banned from that town.

LC


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WTF? Ok, now what happened in Waseca? and when? With who? Where was I?


Docp





When I first saw this post, I got nervous again. I knew LC had previously shared her story and her BH Docp, who she had been encouraging to read/post on MB for some time, had either forgotten (or didn't realize) something she thought she had told him.

Fortunately they were able to have a mature discussion about that issue a few days ago. (Full story on the Success Stories thread linked to my sig line.)

I got nervous yesterday when I read this new post because I didn't know that Docp has such a wild sense of humor. This made me realize that others may read posts that seem challenging or condescending but actually may have been inside jokes posted by spouses or significant others.

I then wondered about other couples who may post to and about each other on MB who might have an intriguing story like LC (who hid her WS activities for over a year and nearly had a nervous breakdown) and Docp, (who chose to heal as a BS in his own private way, and only recently started posting on MB.)

My FWH chooses not to post....yet....and if/when he does, he says he will not have Mr. Ace or Mr. romAnCE as his screen name. (He does have a name all picked out, though.) Until then I appreciate other couples who both post on MB but I'm curious about who came first and when/why/how the other decided to post.

Do the benefits outweigh the risks of both spouses posting?

Thanks,

Ace

Edited to clarify according to what LC shared later in a subsequent post below. Thanks LC. Sorry for the confusion.

Re-edited to change subtitle.

Last edited by Ace_in_bucket; 02/02/08 09:57 AM.
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I don't think there's any "intriguing story" behind Tangled and myself. I joined in the latter half of 2005, and she joined in early 2006, to basically contest something that I'd said on the forums. She decided to leave in early 2007, still in the same mindset, so nothing really changed. I had high hopes that she might gain something out of participating, when she found out that not only were her views contested, but strongly so in some cases, she decided to opt out.


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I joined almost two years ago in March, although I read for about a year prior to registering. I had been in an EA, and had ended the affair, but had a really hard time with the withdrawal phase. After an entire year of no contact, I was still missing OM too much. So I registered and finally got up the nerve to admit my problem.

My first thread didn't do very well, at least in my opinion at the time. It became a discussion about my husband's porn use and not my EA! I gave up and tried again about a month later, focusing on ME and MY PROBLEM and there I got some well-deserved 2X4 especially from Just Learning. That 2nd thread helped me end the affair I was having in my head, and catalyzed some good discussions between me and my husband. It was at that time that I told him about MB.

My husband joined a few months later when those "good discussions" allowed him the opportunity to confess prior PAs in the spirit of openness and honesty. I freaked out after he told me, was suicidal and also threatened to divorce him if I lived through the day. So my husband came to MB for help. His user name is "Messdup". He doesn't post very much, but he does a search on my name several times a week and reads every post of mine.

Hi honey! <waving> Whatcha want for Superbowl Sunday dinner?

***edited for spelling and to say: Hi Acey!! I'm backing off on my MB posting, for deliberate reasons. I'll explain later... but I miss you too

Last edited by SaturnRising; 02/01/08 11:57 AM.

Me: 45
Him: 47
married 23 years
Two wonderful sons
D-day for my EA: 8/15/04
D-day for his PAs: 8/16/06

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Hi MIM,

Glad you posted but sorry your FWW didn't gain the help she needed last year. Do you think enough time has passed that she might be helped if she tried again?

Thanks for sharing.

*********************

Saturn Rising!!!!!

You warm my heart! So glad you posted and thank you for teaching me how to link when I called out for Mishes thread way back last spring. I think of you and MAZ whenever I link....which, as you see, is all the time! I even gave you both credit when I listed the steps for keystroke linking on Mark's musing thread.

Again....so great to hear from you...miss ya on the Vacation thread....stop by sometime!

Happy Superbowl watching!!!!

Ace


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I found MB a week after D-day and even before I registered, I tried to get my wife to join me here. NC didn't begin until a few days later at about the time I registered.

Soon after I began reading here, I realized that I was not going to educate her into dropping OM and so I stopped asking her to read here very much. I have since linked her to a few things I have read and we sometimes discuss things from MB, but thus far she has not registered and as far as I know doesn't read anything unless I give it to her in print or send her the link specifically.

And frankly, I'm OK with that...

Mark

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Ace,

I guess I should clarify something. The story you quoted wasn't the one he said he didn't think he had heard before. The one I am referring to is the one where I talked about FOM making his first move. Edited to add: I don't believe Docp posted anything about it, he asked me.

I honestly had no idea I hadn't told him and I can't imagine why I would leave it out, it certainly was more tame than some of the other stuff I shared when he asked for all the details.

The initial mix up sort of lead to him being a smartypants about this one. We were reading the board together and as he started to read my post you quoted above, I said, "Oh my, I hope you know about this one". (teasing him because I knew for certain he was told about this). So teasing me back he said what he did, but quickly followed it up with a post that he really did know about it. I thought he should have edited his initial post saying he was only kidding, but I also don't think he needs me over his shoulder telling him the "right" way to post.

Now in regard to the post with the info he said he was not aware of I felt bad because I really have tried to be sure he knows everything because he had asked to know it all. It is very possible I did leave this out, but it certainly wasn't intentional so he wouldn't know about it.

Now that I cleared that up, onto your questions.

I started posting first and kept talking to him about posts I thought he would be interested in. I also shared with him that even though we are far out from the A and d-day there are still things I am learning about myself and how posting here really made me realize so much of what I went through.

I asked him to read a few of my threads to get his opinion, one of them being the one about my best friend/FOM's SIL. I also asked him to check out a few others. Then when you called him out (in a good way) he decided to register and respond. He doesn't post often, but we have read a lot together. Reading together has opened up some really great conversations about us, how they relate to other stories here and it has also allowed me to work in things I feel he would like to know w/o bringing them up out of the blue.

A long time ago he asked me a question that I honestly did not have an answer for. Since reading here and discussing things I was able to answer his question from way back in 2004.

I like having him here which is a complete 180 from when right after D-day he wanted access to my old board. YIKES!! He wanted to read all my "secret stuff" from post-A, through falling over the deep end and picking up the pieces. It was fog babble at it's finest, he could only take so much before he stopped because it made him physically ill to witness my fog and withdrawal.

It made me so very uncomfortable when he read the other board because I still had a lot of secrets. Now that he knows more than he probably wants to I like him reading my thoughts and I really like like how open he is being about things.

LC

Last edited by lifeschoice; 02/04/08 08:13 AM.




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Quote:

Hi MIM,

Glad you posted but sorry your FWW didn't gain the help she needed last year. Do you think enough time has passed that she might be helped if she tried again?




Not a chance - I think she thinks that we are all bitter BSs who want to 2x4 WSs and browbeat and brainwash everyone else who takes part in the forums.


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MIM,

I sometimes think that myself...

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Quote:


Quote:
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Hi MIM,

Glad you posted but sorry your FWW didn't gain the help she needed last year. Do you think enough time has passed that she might be helped if she tried again?

Ace


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Not a chance - I think she thinks that we are all bitter BSs who want to 2x4 WSs and browbeat and brainwash everyone else who takes part in the forums.


ManInMotion






Quote:

MIM,

I sometimes think that myself...

Mark




Mark & MiM,

What could be done to find a solution to this perception?

I can see how both spouses posting could create another outlet that could be very hurtful when spouses use the forums to vent, but end up adding fuel to the fire when posters possibly make DJ's instead of supporting the hurting spouse?

************************

To everyone else:

I started this thread before I knew/saw the conflict between two long time spouse posters Froz and Patriot. My heart goes out to both of them, but especially Froz. (Her Renters/Buyers Support thread has really impacted me even though I know very little about their sitch.)

When I saw Froz's thread, I thought the timing on this thread might be wrong and I considered asking the mods to remove it. But MAYBE this thread can be an outlet about similar challenges .....and I'm wondering if it might help if general questions/suggestions could be shared here by posting spouses, as I'm sure many are like me and would like our spouses to post but may not have considered the risks involved.

At any rate, we're praying for you Froz and for Patriot, too.

Ace

Last edited by Ace_in_bucket; 02/03/08 09:14 AM.

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Ace,

IMO, the only way it works for spouses to post together is if they are completely open and honest off the board and on the board.

I believe it could cause a lot of conflict to be posting thoughts your SO is not aware of. IMO, open communication is the key to being able to post along with our spouse.

I'm not aware of the Frozen and Patriot issue, but will search it out.

In the event you decide you want to delete this thread and the mods can't. Just delete your messages and I will be happy to delete mine.

LC





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Hi LC,

Your post may be a sign that the timing might be OK. (I think we'll leave it for now.) You and Docp are in a position to help other spouse posters (and those of us 'wannabe' spouse posters) see the risks involved and have a working plan to overcome them.

Of course Docp's sense of humor is an asset for you that many might not have. At any rate, spouse posters can share in the benefits but must be aware of the risks, too.

I just saw where TMTS's spouse has begun to defog.....not familiar with his sitch but saw where Mark and RIF have been helping him. He said this morning that he may bring his spouse here in a week or two.

I think that could be another sign the this may be a good time for this thread afterall. Betrayed Spouses might bring their wayward (defogging) spouses here too soon and either one (or both) may not be strong enough to withstand what might be perceived as an onslaught. <sad sigh>

As always, I'm open to suggestions or corrections.

Ace

Last edited by Ace_in_bucket; 02/03/08 09:17 AM.

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Quote:

What could be done to find a solution to this perception?




Hmm.. in the case of "Tangled", possibly a brain transplant might work .

Seriously, I find myself giving up now on trying to have any type of conversation with her concerning us. Doing so is like trying to dance with a bramble-bush: pointless, I get scratched and hurt, and the bramble-bush doesn't understand what's going on and keeps growing its thorns and getting even thicker.

A typical "tape" we play is that she'll see me down or upset about something, she'd ask what's up or how I'm feeling, I'd say that I'm frustrated about something (these days it's SF, of which there's none at the moment), and she will immediately become angry and abusive.

As a result, I've asked her to please stop asking how I feel if she can't accept hearing about my feelings without abusing me.

I've been trying to get in touch with the company's counselor for the past few days to arrange counseling for us (my FWW did say she will attend, but I suspect that her feelings on that matter will change as soon as the counselor raises any questions about her behaviour). If I can get that arranged though, I'm going to put another boundary in place: no "relationship" or even "near-relationship" talks unless there's a professional 3rd party involved, if only for that 3rd party to see the abuse that I'm put through by this controlling, abusive and confusing woman.


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Ace,

Quote:

Betrayed Spouses might bring their wayward (defogging) spouses here too soon and either one (or both) may not be strong enough to withstand the onslaught. <sad sigh>




I agree. I know I have said this before, but it's very easy for me to pick out someone who is still in fog when they show up here. Generally after a few days of posting they feel picked on and after trying to "prove their point" leave the board stating this place is unfair to WS's.

A FWS cannot come here unless they come with an open mind, be willing to look hard at themselves and be willing to learn. JMHO

LC





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Quote:

no "relationship" or even "near-relationship" talks unless there's a professional 3rd party involved, if only for that 3rd party to see the abuse that I'm put through by this controlling, abusive and confusing woman.




Y'know, MiM, I think this is an excellent boundary, and we've implemented it successfully so far. A side benefit/detriment, however, is that then I have to stuff things until we can see our MC...sometimes for a few days.

When my DH saw that I was getting good at hiding things, his trust in me was then challenged. When I said I was 'fine' he often wondered if I was hiding something (waiting until we saw MC) or not.

Now, I alleviate that by saying, "I have something I'm concerned about but I think it's best if we talk with MC about it because I could be wrong." He just says 'OK'. Discussion tabled.

For the past 8 weeks, we have had things come up, but we have successfully discussed them without MC. Shows that we can do it and saves us money, too. That's a win/win in my book.

Regarding your wive's reluctance to 'own her stuff'.....it would seem that MC is imperative to get unstuck. I hope you can find someone and that (s)he is familiar with MB concepts.

In the meantime, you're welcome to vent away on this thread since she's not reading or posting here now.

Ace


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So, after we have our bath together and I'm relaxing in bed watching TV, she comes in, sits on the side of the bed, and says "I'd like to talk".

"Sure", I replied, turning away from the TV, "What would you like to talk about?"

"Well, it seems that I can't meet your emotional needs. I'd like to know what you plan to do about that."

"You can't, or you won't?"

She avoids answering that by saying "well, I'm tired of you being frustrated by me not meeting your needs, so we need to do something".

"Well, ok, what I do basically depends on what you mean when you say you can't meet my needs. If you're saying that you don't want to meet my needs, that's one thing. If you're concerned about the situation and want to try to work it out, either between ourselves or with professional counsel, that's another. In the case of SF, for example, we could discuss what frequency you're comfortable with..."

At that point she started raising her voice:

"Well, I can't do it as often as you want, and I want to be able to do it only when I want to, and not just because it's something you need from me!"

I knew that if the conversation continued any further I was going to be in for more abuse, so I calmly said "'Tangled', once again I starting to feel abused by you. I am withdrawing from the conversation now", and I turned away.

"Fine!", she says, and leaves the bedroom.

Well, I thought we had a chance there, as she initiated the talk this time so it seemed like she was really concerned, but I should have guessed that it would turn out the same way it normally does.

FWIW, when we first did the EN thing, she said she was comfortable with twice a week. We never achieved that. We were down to about once a week (if that much) before SF stopped completely just over two weeks ago (if you can call lying prone and telling your H to go ahead can be considered SF - if not, it stopped quite a bit before that).

I need to remind myself why I'm subjecting myself to this.


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Quote:

A FWS cannot come here unless they come with an open mind, be willing to look hard at themselves and be willing to learn. JMHO






I agree...

I can also see where this forum could create recovery problems if there is not "radical honesty" agreed upon by both, but I quess if there is not "radical honesty", then there isn't much chance of recovery to begin with...





Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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Quote:

As a result, I've asked her to please stop asking how I feel if she can't accept hearing about my feelings without abusing me.




This morning I'm being subjected to the "silent treatment". I woke up early this morning to try and complete some of the outstanding chores around the house. She woke up afterwards. I said good morning, and gave her a smile - nothing in response.

I know if I ask her why she isn't speaking to me, the response is going to be "well, it doesn't seem I can talk to you without upsetting you", which will likely lead to me doing the whole apology thing, which usually leads to her feeling comfortable to verbally abuse me again. So this time I'm not going to bother to ask.

It's actually supposed to be a special day for her today - we're actually planning to go to lunch at one of our favourite restaurants to celebrate. She hasn't mentioned anything about that yet, so I assume it's still on - must keep up appearances for the kids, you know. Except that probably doesn't realise that, if this continues, I'm going to break the news to the kids that all is not well between mum and dad, rather than have them sitting there confused about their mum's behaviour (when she's upset about something, they become the brunt of her anger as well).

The last time she was acting like this, it was near or close to D-Day, so of course there are lots of triggers going on. I doubt she cares about that.


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MIM,

I'm sure this is a "non MB way" question, but why do you accept this treatment and choose to stay in a situation you clearly are not happy with?

I'm asking because I promised myself if our marriage ever went back to the old way, I would not tolerate it and would make the choice to leave. I feel my boundary is very well defined to my DH that if we both weren't willing to work on the marriage and be happy then I would be done.

It makes me wonder if in your situation if I really would have the courage to follow through, unlike last time when I was too afraid to leave. IOW, it's easy to say as an outsider, but what to do if the insider.

Sort of like when people say, "If my spouse ever cheated on me I would definitely leave, but then stay." BTW, I myself said that forever and it didn't stop ME from cheating, but at the time I did want my DH to leave me so he could be the "bad guy" not me. (how's that for fog thinking at it's best.)

You have to decide what you are willing to put up with. It seems by your sig line your W's A was quite some time ago.

LC

Last edited by lifeschoice; 02/03/08 09:14 AM.




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Hey MiM,

You and Tangled sound a lot like me and Mrs. RIF when we first started rebuilding... especially the 2X a week!

One of the things that I learned in MC was to "own" my own feelings. By doing this, I released Mrs. RIF from HAVING to meet my needs. Part of what we (mainly me) learned was that I was expecting HER to "fix" everything. I placed all of my pain on her.

Yes, her ACTIONS caused my pain, but in the present day reality, my pain was just that.... my pain. NOT Mrs. RIFs pain.

When I finally "figured" this out and started applying it, I also tried to learn how to communicate my 'feelings' in a non-threatening way. It's important that you let Tangled know what your true feelings are, but once you do, then don't continue to chase her with your pain and expect her to "fix" it for you.

I hope that this makes sense... I've got to head over to the chapel for church... so I'll check back in a bit...

Semper Fi,

RIF


Me, BS

Her, Forgiven

Married Dec 86

Multiple A's that ended '90

Rebuilding In Faith since then...

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Quote:

MIM,

I'm sure this is a "non MB way" question, but why do you accept this treatment and choose to stay in a situation you clearly are not happy with?




Perhaps because I still think that the alternative, separation and D, will be a lot worse, particularly on the kids. Right now, I can act as a kind of control when my W starts to act abusive with our kids. If we go our separate ways, the kids will likely end up with her, and it will be even worse for them.

Of course, if she commits adultery again, or does anything else that can significantly harm our family, I will do my best to ensure that she plays as little a part in my and my kids life as possible after that.

I also at times see in her the things I saw in her when we first fell in love. It's not all bad... just not what I really signed up for when I committed to M'ing her.


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