Yep...ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS....

More HUGS going out to you, FROZ....

You are in my prayers...

Frozen,

There isn't much that I can add to this thread, I just wanted to lend my support. Heck, I've got my own troubles with recovery that PWC won't get past or change, which heavily effect our recovery. I struggle with this daily.

I believe you have what it takes to get thru this, Froz.

Thank you, SL. I am trying to figure out a way out because I really don't think anything is going to change until I do. It hasn't yet and it has been over 3 years.

I don't want to be here another 3 years from now in the same situation. It is hard to see a way to keep from being in the same situation while I am smack dab in the middle of it.

I think I know what fears have allowed me to be controllable.

* Fear of the unkown.
* Fear of being alone.
* Fear of being defective (no one else will want me).
* Fear that, having ADD, I will make a mistake (such as not paying attention to a detail or making a mathematical error in finances, being impulsive, forgetting to pay something, etc...) and there being painful consequences for myself or my children as a result. Patriot is a good provider, which cushions the effect of such consequences.

While the first two are fears that I realize are more emotional than logical, the last one is a fear that is not only logical, but certain and unavoidable.

Someone who doesn't have experience with ADD can say, "Just pay attention and don't make a mistake." Someone who understands the effects of ADD knows that it is both unrealistic and impossible and that the harder someone with ADD tries to pay attention, the less they able they are to do it.

The only solution I have found is to try to work within my limitations - to expect that I will make a mistake and do the best I can to work around it (e.g. instead of trying to remember that I have a frozen pizza in the oven and that I need to check it so I don't burn it, I set an egg timer and carry it around with me so that I don't HAVE to pay attention and remember).

Patriot has been the recipient of the consequences too, such as being late everywhere, bringing me lunch at work because I either forgot or spilled mine on the floor, cleaning up the gallon of paint that I spilled in my car because I forgot to hammer the lid back on, calling and settling with creditors for a bill I forgot I had, helping me when I need to accomplish something with a deadline and I lost track of time and became overwhelmed by breaking into smaller pieces and helping me prioritize. ..not to mention lots of burned pizza until my son came up with the egg timer solution.

Maybe it's enabling and maybe it isn't. While some of these things may be a knapsack for a lot of people, they are often boulders for me.

Dr. Harley speaks often about behaviors being in one of two categories…instincts and habits. Habits can be changed. Instincts can not. The way my brain functions is instinct and the best I can do is to plan for mistakes and do what I can to have a safety net – and that is never foolproof.

Patriot has become my safety net and without his help, there will be consequences and I am afraid.

Goodness, Froz, I hear your fear.

I admit that fear has kept me fighting for my marriage, at least initially. Now, I don't fear being alone as much as I fear what will happen to my son, my financial stability, if I D or separate. Now, add on the ADD, as in your sitch, and I suppose I would be overwhelmed right now. I can feel it, just thinking about it.

Extend that net out as much as you can before making any major choices. Ask friends to help you out, don't isolate yourself. When you spill the paint, call an understanding party and ask for help. When the pizza burns, microwave a hot dog. MOst of all, don't allow fear to keep you from being happy and healthy. Many illnesses, including ADD, can be exaserbated by mentally/emotionally/physically draining situations.

What about MEDICATION for your ADD? It is highly effective.

Wow, I must have ADD, cause I do crap like that ALL the time. In fact, everyone I know does stuff like that.

I think its called being human froz. Don't beat yourself up over the little things. You don't deserve it.

Sounds a little like BS fog to me. Or is this how Patriot keeps you under his control?

You know, Froz, that he is not the ONLY one in the world who can handle this.

It is certainly an added difficulty for you, but impossible to deal with if Pat is not around? I'm sure not.

You CAN do it, Froz, if you are willing.

Don't let fear rule your decisions.

Take care,
Fox

Froz, Im with TYK here. I do crap like that ALL the time myself. ESPECIALLY after d-day (d-year).

Just the other night I was pretty upset ( <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />) and preoccupied and I burned a 1/2 doz eggs I was boiling on the stove. Boy! Talk about stinking!....lol.....I laughed so hard when I looked at my son's face when he walked in the door and got a whiff of it...lol....

Also, after one ( <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />) of my d-days, I went to Walgreens and left my car door WIDE open! They announced it on the loud speaker, of course, and I slithered out to go shut it.

I pass my exits....

I can't concentrate on my homework, etc.

I definitely think it got worse after d-day.

Now, I just have to laught at myself.

I understand your fears Froz and this has been my motto for the last week..........

Change is scary, but not changing is scarier.

That's where I'm at.


{{{{Frozen}}}}}}

Unfortunately, after D-Day I made the mistake of not telling anyone...partly denial/partly shame/partly hoping that if I pretended like it didn't happen, I could stave off the grief of losing what I thought was real and avoid facing the fears I am now up against. Obviously Plan Denial was unsuccessful.

Not telling anyone only served to isolate me from anyone who might have been any sort of support system. Since D-Day, I've pretty much withdrawn from everyone. They noticed.

Recently, I told one friend. She said that it explained a lot and she was understanding. Soon, I will probably tell more and after that, I imagine I will need to stop being such a chicken and tell my children and my and Patriot's parents.



<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

The loss of a pizza is a consequence I can easily manage.

I am more afraid of consequences like having nothing to eat and not having a roof over my head. I have been there before. It is terrifying.

Tyk,


LOL!

Think of it ocurring on a much grander scale and the being the rule, rather than a once in a while kind of thing.

Btw, one of the symptoms is being too open, too trusting, naive and gullible. That's always a handy survival instinct (not!).



I have been taking Adderall for a little over a year now. It does help with just a few of the symptoms, but not even close to all of them.

Also, given that I am self-employed, I rely on Patriot for health insurance.



I'm not sure what BS fog is, but yes...what I was trying to explain is WHY I have allowed myself to be controlled.



Hey, Mopey...I can definitely relate!



Good mantra. That is where I'm at too.

I'm sick of being controlled. I'm sick of living in fear. Currently those things are still a part of my marriage, so I am going to work on removing the fears that I have about NOT living in this situation.

From the library today, I got:

Doormats & Control Freaks - How to Recognize, Heal or End Codependent Relationships

The Gaslight Effect

You Don't Have To Take It Anymore

The Truth Will Set You Free - Overcoming Emotional Blindness and Finding Your True Adult Self

Get Free Cash For College - Secrets To Winning Scholarships

Codependent No More/Beyond Codependency

Practical Guide To Your Money

and last but not least...

What Does Everybody Else Know That I Don't - Social Skills Help for Adults with ADD

Fox,



Good advice.
One way or another, something is going to change. I can't live like this anymore.

This book, The Gaslight Effect, is really, really good and very interesting.

Some key points regarding what allows someone to be vulnerable to gaslighting:

* if you are easily swayed by people who seem certain
* if you are very responsive to people who seem hurt, frustrated, or needy
* if you have a strong need to be right and to be seen as right
* if you have a big stake in being like, appreciated or understood
* if it's very important to you to be able to fix things and make everything come out well
* if you have a huge capacity to feel for others (it allows you to switch all too quickly to your gaslighter's point of view
* when you want very much to preserve the relationship
* if you want generally to keep relationships going - you hae a hard time letting go of people
* when you want very much to preserve your good opinion about the gaslighter
* if you have a hard time acknowledging that someone is treating you badly
* if you feel very uncomfortable with disagreement or conflict
* if you are more comfortable relying upon another person's opinion than upon your own
* if you worry frequently about not being good enough, capable enough or lovable enough
* if you want your gaslighter's approval, especially because you have idealized or romanticized him or because you're very invested in preserving the relationship

The ADD book is really good too, though it isn't what I thought it was about. I thought it was a book about how to teach adults with ADD how to learn to manage their lives independently.

It isn't. It's about learning social skills. Having an inconsistent attention span causes someone to miss the subtle signals that most people learn as children.

Apparently, there is this big, unwritten rulebook of social rules that I was unaware of.

This explains to me why I so often get these "looks" (like I've said something funny, when I wasn't trying to be funny)

It also explains to me why I am so frequently misunderstood. The book says that because people are constantly trying to make sense of the world around them, they make guesses based on external cues and try to find suitable explanations, so they make guesses about people's motives. Because they assume that everyone knows these unwritten social rules, they leap to the negative conclusions.

This happens to me ALL the time!!! People think I'm trying to be rude when I'm not or that I must have some sneaky, underhanded agenda when I am being completely forthcoming and genuine.

It makes no sense to me why there has to be all these unwritten rules. Why does communication have to have all these subtle nuances? I can't believe that getting along in society involves having to learn to to GUESS what people mean! Why can't everyone just say exactly whatever it is they mean...that way no one would ever have to guess and there would be no misunderstandings.

My way is much more logical, so I am proposing that we all forget about this unwritten rulebook nonsense. Everyone please change to make life easier for me, okay? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

It seems like there is always something I need to learn and when I learn it, there is just something else and by then I've already forgotten the first thing I learned.

I LOVE IT that you are a READER..me, too..I'm a firm believer in BIBLIOTHERAPY!!

DRIVEN TO DISTRACTION is a great book about strategies to cope with ADD. I don't have it but am surrounded by "LOVED ONES" (not calling any names) who do...

I'm currently reading AUTHENTIC HAPPINESS. It's FANTASTIC and they have a GREAT WEBSITE where you can take FREE QUIZZES to learn helpful stuff about yourself. I hope I can post it. It is www.authentichappiness.org.

I've read Driven To Distraction and also Delivered from Distraction.

I love quizzes! Thanks for the link.

Lucky me, I'm already there!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



Here's a question that has been rolling around in my head...maybe someone knows the answer.

If putting too much stock in people's opinions makes you an easy target for gaslighting, how can you tell the difference between doing that and being open to criticism about things you really do need to change???

By not putting stock in anyone's opinion based on WHO THEY ARE, but based on the merit and validity of their opinion. Every opinion should be judged on its MERIT, not on WHO stated it, IMO.

psst . . . froz . . . they're not talking about the unwritten *spoken* rules. They're talking about the unwritten *unspoken* rules for communication - the body language, the facial expressions, that sort of thing. I think that's what you're missing when it comes to social cues.

To help this - in all seriousness - start with the animal world. Animals communicate with each other almost entirely with body language and expression, and only with the most rudimentary of sounds.

I have long experience learning to understand the "language" of horses, and believe me, humans do much the same thing. And it's very, very important to pick up on the body language and *unspoken* cues.

I don't know anyone who is a natural at that, whether it's with humans or with animals. We all have to make an effort to learn it and understand it. It's not just you.

Watch the TV show called *The Dog Whisperer* (it's on the National Geographic channel.) Get a book called *The Man Who Listens to Horses*, by Monty Roberts. These things are all about learning to read non-verbal cues from another species and you will be amazed at how much of it carries over to humans.

Have some fun with this. I really do think you'll be surprised.
Mulan

AHA!!! I KNEW IT!!!

It DOES require having to guess what people mean!

I think that's a really dumb rule. It leaves too much room for human error.

I wish that people could just ask other people what they mean. It occurs to me that method leaves too much room for human lying.

I really do not understand why someone would lie about what they mean. What is the point in being snide if you can't take responsibility for it?

Maybe because they want to get away with it and still have people think they are nice. But then, what is the point in having people *think* you are nice if YOU know you aren't? Baffling.

I will watch The Dog Whisperer.

Mimi, the quizzes link doesn't work!

Boundary setting is lonely.

Here you go:

I LOVED THE VIA SIGNATURE STRENGTHS QUESTIONNAIRE:

Authentic Happiness

Thank you!