Hi
Pretty new here. But I have a real serious question, one that may have been tackled before, I looked, couldn't find it. But here goes.

Why isn't there a law concerning being the other man or other woman? I mean, if some stole something from me or ruined my name they would be held responsible. Why is it such a reach for having a law that makes it a crime to ruin someone elses life? There is a TON of pain on this board. And most of the time, the MOST INNOCENT of the party is the one who has to go to all efforts to get back was was HIS OR HERS to begin with!!!!! That is mindboggling!! I realize that having the OM or OW may drive the spouse away from you altogether, but that STILL should be a choice the WRONGED party has at his or her disposal!!! Just a thought. But I tell you, its OVERWHELMING how many people on this board are emotionally CRUSHED by an INCONSIDERATE SELFISH spouse and the piece of trash they hook up with. Its pain that NO ONE SHOULD HAVE TO GO THROUGH. And its the type of pain that if you are responsible for it, you MUST be held accountable.

I definately can appreciate it when it was SHAMEFUL to break a marriage vow. That public knowledge of such an act was one that VERY FEW would chance. But, nowadays with the NEW MORALS, and people thinking the perfect happiness is something OWED, having affairs aren't such a big deal.

I agree. Even in Texas stealing a man's horse is still punishable by hanging. How much more should it be for stealing his wife?

I was just saying today that it escapes my realm of understanding how a woman (and I use the term loosely) feels it's okay to "steal" a man from his wife and family. It's sick. So very, very sick. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

ETA: Of course, I also think "no fault" divorce states should reconsider. What the heck is marriage anyway if one member of the team can have an affair and yet not be "punished" monetarily or otherwise in the divorce settlement.

I always just took it for granted that NO FAULT was a painless divorce. Like an idiot, No fault gave me the impression that BOTH spouses have agreed that divorce is best. But now, being in danger of being in that situation, I read that 80-90% of the time, ONE spouse is devestated by the events! This is pain I can understand.

The breakup of a marriage is mindbogglingly painful and its a shame that society will not stand up for the sanctity of a marriage contract.

I agree. It could explain why as many as 65% of marriages are touched by infidelity. So sad. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

here is a quote from wikipedia regarding OP:

"Alienation of affections is a tort action brought by a deserted spouse against a third party alleged to be responsible for the failure of the marriage. The defendant in an alienation of affections suit is typically an adulterous spouse's lover, although family members, counselors, or clergy members who have advised a spouse to seek divorce have also been sued for alienation of affections.

Alienation of affections was first codified as a tort by the New York state legislature in 1864, and similar legislation existed in many U.S. states in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Since 1935, this tort has been abolished in 42 states. Alienation is, however, still recognized in Hawaii, Illinois, North Carolina, New Hampshire, Mississippi, New Mexico, South Dakota, and Utah."

People are not property, and should not be governed as such. It takes two to tango, the OP does not force the WS to breach thier vows. However, I think sexual fidelity should be a part of the marriage license/contract and infidelity should be viewed as a contractual breach and factored heavily into divorce settlements.

Here is a wonderful book on this exact subject.

Defending Traditional Marriage, By Dr. Harley

According to the book (and my recollection of the book)historically, doing away with AOA lawsuits and "fault" divorces was a kind of woman liberation thing. A congresswoman in Indiana started the whole movement. Women were NOT to be considered property or chattel of their husbands (thats the way some of the laws were written even) and they had much less economic power back then to just get up and leave without somewhere feasible to go. They claimed, without any supporting evidence, that the laws were being manipultated by abusive men to trap their wives. The AOA laws were repealled based upon very little "proof" and often in conjuntion with "archiac" sodomy and adultery laws. Since no one was there to defend them (can you imagine a bunch of BS's showing up at the capital building protesting or fighting for such law? Maybe they'd be saying "MY WIFE/HUSBAND CHEATED ON ME 5 YEARS AGO AND I USED THE AOA LAWS TO THREATEN OP AND THAT SAVED MY MARRIAGE" or "I NEED THIS LAW JUST IN CASE MY WIFE/HUSBAND CHEATS ON ME", let alone someone showing up demanding we keep Sodomy laws on the books) ...they went through with little debate.

No one saw the long term ramnifications. The courts were relieved that they no longer had to decide these difficult and emotionally devastating cases. Psychologists were relieved that the children were to be spared the never ending mud slinging between the parents in court...instead the court and the parents could and should merely divide up the property and consider only the "best interests of the kids". Marriage is irrelevant.


Today...our society is more litigious and the sources of information are substantially greater. The "he said" - "she said" days would be magnified to some extent with "I recorded/videotaped/hired a PI and investigated her....etc.". Years worth of emails, text messages, and internet activities would all be fair game. Affairs are no longer with a neighbor, old boyfriend or coworker, they occur around the globe and some never even meet face to face and some are even imaginary (fictitious characters on the internet). The courts would hate deciding "fault" in todays environment.

I think a reasonable idea (for a start) is that courts in all states should weigh "fault" to some extent in the propety settlement, alimony arrangement, and certainly custody arrangement. If the "punishment" is not complete anihilation there won't be motivation to corrupt the system nor lie. Judges should get involved and "ORDER" third parties away from the newly divorcing couple, upon request, for a "cooling off period" of say 6 months. Threaten OP's with JAIL if they fail to comply with NO CONTACT.

Dr. Harley's book does discuss some solutions, alternatives and what we can all do to fight. I encourage you to read it (go online and see if your local library has it).

Mr. Wondering

I agree, which is why I put steal in quotes. However, I guess what I was getting at it more of a sense of entitlement the OP's seem to have for the WS's. "Your marriage was over so he was free." "I'm going to fight for you (WS)". "You treated him/her badly." Things along those lines -- as if there's no reason in the world that they should not be together. And of course there are reasons, lots of them. Infidels are not "entitled" to be together, but they sure act like "paying their dues" gets them that right.

I think BOTH spouses in a marriage have the right to look at the other as belonging to him or her.

My wife has every right to look at me as HER HUSBAND, and SHE has FAR FAR MORE right to consider me HERS. And vice versa. I think a marriage DOES convey a certain degree of BELONGING to someone else. And if OP TRIES to infiltrate that, he or she should be held accountable.

No one FORCES anyone to get married. When you get married you are giving up certain individual rights in exchange for all the rights and benefits of being part of a MARRIAGE. Its not all take take take. Its give give give.

Its really pathetic. A CELL PHONE CONTRACT is held in higher legal regard than a marriage by society.

A human being is not property - but a relationship is. A married person has every right and every reason to expect that their marital relationship will be respected by others, no matter how much somebody else might like to take what's in that relationship.

I do agree that "alienation of affection" lawsuits are outdated and unenforceable - but I would sure like to see any BS be able to sue the OP for Marital Intrusion.

If some woman likes my jewelry, does she have the right to sneak into my home and just take it?? And then say, "But, I just fell in love with that emerald necklace! I just couldn't help myself! It just happened, and before you know it, I was wearing it instead of Mulan!"

Somebody who did that would be thrown in jail - but if they do exactly the same thing with my husband, they get praised and supported and looked at as hopeless romantics *sigh*

If a married person really did marry the wrong person, and really does fall in love with somebody else later on (and I will submit that this could happen), then yes, they should have the right to IMMEDIATELY leave that marriage, take little to nothing with them, and count themselves fortunate to see their kids on the weekends. They would have the right to do this.

However -

Not that many people do this. Most adulterers are really fence-sitters and cake-eaters who are trying their damndest to have both a spouse at home AND dating on the side.

Fence-sitters should be hit hard with Marital Abuse and Marital Neglect, and their OP should be hit even harder with Marital Intrusion.

It really makes me sick that politicians rail on and on about "gay marriage" being a threat to society. What a load of crap. No matter how you might feel personally about same-sex couples being allowed to legally marry, it is NO threat whatsoever to heterosexual couples' marriages.

It should be obvious to anyone who's read here for more than five minutes that the real threat to "straight" marriage is the rampant infidelity that goes on in every level of our culture. I want to start emailing the presidential candidates and asking them where they stand on THAT and how they feel about changing the laws to include the Marital Abuse, Marital Neglect and Marital Intrusion items mentioned above.

I would urge everyone here to do the same.

Just my .02.
Mulan

I agree so much with this post. The OW in my story even went so far as to say that she did not think my FWH would have "strayed" had she not kept pushing his buttons during a "vulnerable" time in his life and our M.

I feel she sould get some sort of punishment or her part in the A.

I think this might fit well in here. I have been out on several dates in the past with a married woman. Why? Because she didn't tell me she was married. I think this kind of thing happens pretty frequently.
While I like the idea of AOA lawsuits and even criminalizing adultery, I think the better idea here is to hold the WS accountable for their actions at the divorce table (with both custody and division of assets). I think bringing a OP to court for infidelity will really benefit no one but the lawyers that are called to defend these [censored].

I agree with much of Mulan's post with the exception of the gay marriage issue. I do think it is a threat to society and an abomination. Society should not express tolerance of this type of behavior IMO...it gives it a stamp of approval. There can be more than one real threat to marriage and society.

Politicians should be asked about their views. But we should hold others to task as well. Oprah, who is stumping for Obamma has openly supported infidelity on her show...suggesting to people that "realized" they were gay while married should live their "best life" and commended them for following their dreams...not one word about the "wrongness" of infidelity. Shameful.