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Okay, I have been very focused on figuring out if there is an OM. Due to the problems I am having with the cell phone people and getting my call details, I still don't know and won't in the next few days.
I have a different problem right now (or possible problem) and would really like some help. I don't know why but I don't seem to get many replies here and really need some input on this, I am really begging for help here.
Anyway my possible problem is that I think that my husband might be getting ready to tell me I am not to come down and see him on his week leave (next week) before heading to Afganistan. He did ask me a few weeks ago to come, but keeps saying when we talk "are you still planning on coming" and now the girl that was going to ride down with me (my husband's best friend's wife) calls and say another girl ask her to ride with her and since she is leaving a day earlier would like to go with her. All the guys talk and it doesn't make sense for my husband's best friend to give his wife phone number to another guy so his wife can call and ask her to ride with her, knowing that she has plans to come down with me.
So if this happens, what do I do or say to him? Do I tell him I would really like to come and see him and ask him to reconsider? Do I just say okay? Do I tell him I am coming anyway and something about while I am there he can then figure out if he wants to spend time with me? I don't want to not push the issue and let him use that to think I don't care about him or seeing him. But if I push too much or at all it might make him think I don't respect his decision and what is best for him.
What do you all think? I know you might say, well you don't even know if this is going to happen. But if it does, I will have just that one shot while talking to reply. He doesn't call much and service is so bad I can't get through to him, so I need to be ready at the time and not figure it out later. Thanks
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Hi lit1022,
I'd go and enjoy the time with your H... Are there any "fun" places to go visit while you're with him?
When I mobilized in 2004, we were at Ft. Leonard Wood (Ft. Lost in the Woods) so when we had a 3 day weekend, we all flew home to TX to see our families.
I wouldn't miss this last opportunity to be with your H...
Semper Fi,
RIF
Me, BS Her, Forgiven Married Dec 86
Multiple A's that ended '90 Rebuilding In Faith since then...
Currently deployed to Iraq, but TEXAS is Home!
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RIF - Thanks so much again for replying. Do you think I said something to turn off the rest of this board, because you are the only one at all willing to every try and help me here.
Anyway, I will so go down and do my best to give him a fun and stressless leave, if that opportunity is still open to me. What I am worried about is if he says he doesn't want me to come down. I could just go anyway, but he might not even then see me or worse yet I still don't know for sure there isn't someone else and she could be now going instead of me. Does that make sense? What do I do if he asks me not to come or even basically demands it?
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Hi lit1022,
I try not to post on threads where I don't have any direct experience to pass on, especially if the poster is asking for specific information.
I know there are several other 'military' connected people here so hopefully some of them will chime in!
I'm assuming that you've already discussed coming down for a visit with him... I would just continue to plan your trip. IF he calls and asks you to NOT go, then you should tell him that you already have hotel reservations and that you're coming down.
If he still insists, then I would seriously suspect that he's planning on meeting up with the OW during his final leave. You might want to go down anyway so you could know for sure. If you do decide to go, I would bring a trusted female friend with you so you aren't confronting him alone.
Semper Fi,
RIF
Me, BS Her, Forgiven Married Dec 86
Multiple A's that ended '90 Rebuilding In Faith since then...
Currently deployed to Iraq, but TEXAS is Home!
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RIF
Yes we have discussed this and he asked me to come. Originally when he was home over Christmas he told me that I shouldn't plan on going down at all and that they won't get much time off and it wasn't worth the long trip and all. But then when they found out they have four full days off he called and said "so did you think you will still like to come down". Which seem odd to ask since he knew that is what I wanted all along. Anyway, then a week later when they found out they might get even more time off and there was a cermony that following weekend, he told me to plan and stay those few extra days. So all seemed good, till now the last few times we talked he asked if I was still coming and got off the phone quickly each time claiming he couldn't talk more. Now the girl that was riding with me, gets another ride and I just can't help but wonder what is going on.
If you really think I couldn't do any more damage I will push a bit and see what he says to that I am going to come down anyway. If he demands I don't and won't budge, not sure what I will do as far as going and then confronting him. Thanks for listening and your feedback. Lit
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Okay - so a few weeks have passed. My husband didn't end up saying anything about me not coming to visit him and I was apparently was just stressing myself over nothing. I went and spent a week there and we had a good time.
I did bring up the relationship because I found a name to a phone number that he calls in his address book and also that he had a few short letters/cards from some girls all of out state. The letters/cards he says are girls he met online and are just friends. He said that he doesn't talk to them on the phone just email and now regular mail. I read the two letters and both were just wrote as though they were friends. What hurt me was that the one girl wrote about him starting to live once he got home and she was sure he would meet a beautiful women and have a bunch of kids like he wants. So that is what prompted me to say what is up with us at this point. He didn't want to talk about it saying he couldn't have any distractions while deployed but I really needed some answers. Also the phone number, he first claimed he didn't know who's it was till I told him I knew her name and then he saids it is a young girl he use to work with and they talk mostly about her druggie boyfriend who she goes back and forth with and she is just a friend. Also said none of these girls have anything to do with his decision to end the marriage and won't have anything to do with any future decision he makes about us. I tried to explain the risks of such friendsship becoming more and he just doesn't get it. Now that he is deployed I have no way to know who he calls and emails.
So I guess my first questions is how to I go on from here. I think he is telling me the truth at this point, I never really thought he would be having a PA, just possbily a EA and most likely keeping from me a friend, and apparently there are a couple. He claims he hid it all because I wouldn't take it well. Really? I don't want to be supid and take his word and him playing me, but what he said it actually what I would expect out of him as far as behaviors and such. He just doesn't get that lying to me in order to prevent having to explain a female friend isn't cool.
So since I don't think he is actually having an affair (just coresponding with at least three female friends, which really bothers me but nothing I can to about it right now or anyway to monitor it) what would be my plan to try and convince him to stay in this marriage when he gets back and try to make things better. Although he says he still doesn't know about us (three months later getting the same thing, come on when might he figure this out) he did say that he would work on things when he gets back (he said that to my question about committing to working on the marriage when he gets home) and that he was more confused after me visiting because he was "losing his resolve to leave me" apparently because we were having a good time together. He also said that he sees all the changes in me, but question the real reason for the changes and is afraid that he might stay and then we have kids and then I go back to the way I was before (lashed out alot and vocal about my unhappiness with things about him such as clothes he wore, time spent with friends, etc.) He said that that maybe then we should not have kids, but that is a big issue with him and always wanted a hugh family and doesn't see giving that up. Acts like this is the big holding back point that the changes in me won't last, but there might be more that he isn't telling.
So what do you all think? Not sure if I should still be posting in this section but didn't know how to move the whole thread so I wouldn't have to rewrite all the history of the relationship stuff.
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Well, I think it is very good news that he is not as resolute about leaving you since you spend time together and had fun.
I still think there may be an affair, at least an emotional one. But now that he is deployed, you can do a good Plan A and meet the needs you can. It also gives you time to work on changes you want to make.
Oh, and sorry I made the comment before about why WOULDN'T you take care of things while he was gone. It was thoughtless.
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Hi Lit,
I don't think you've "turned off" the rest of the board, it could be something as simple as your thread title.
Words like "deploy" tend to cause civilians to skip on to the next topic...hence RIF's jumping in.
Perhaps you could rename it to something like "Is H having an EA/PA?"
I too am active duty military and have spent some time in IRAQ. The internet access isn't too bad.
That's why I'd recommend you bone up on Plan A and do it like crazy, as recommended by RIF.
I'm afraid the warning signs of a possible A are certainly there...the biggest one being your H's inital avoidance of the subject.
You've got cell phone records, how about internet usage? There are too many other ways to start/maintain an EA on the internet these days, and even if he's "just friends" with these women, his appearance of less than total transparency might indicate he could be heading in the wrong direction.
The time leading up to deployment is hard EVERY time it happens. One natural "technique" of disengaging w/ loved ones prior to the pain of separation is to pick fights.
Use the time you've got to show just how wonderful you and your M are. Find out what his emotional needs are and MEET them. Find out what your Lovebusters are and KILL them.
Hang in there LIT...
L2F
Oh yeah, and don't forget to make your paragraphs a little shorter...easier to read! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
If God is a DJ, life is a dance floor, you get what you're given, it's all how you use it... Pink
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believer & L2F - Thanks for the replies. Two questions, how do I change the topic of the post and also should I switch the thread to emotional needs since I can't confirm there is a EA and won't (if there is one) for at least the next nine months? How do I move the thread if you think I should?
I admit their are signs of an EA (based on what I learned here) and hence why I investigated and questioned him. But I do tend to lean towards that he is telling the truth that he has just friends. I guess you hear alot that someones spouse isn't the type to have an affair and turns out they are. But I do truely believe that if he was, the guilt would eat him up. I could go into stories of his quite unhealthy history of taking on guilt over things and how he reacted, but it would take too much space and just seem like I am justifing my decision to all but completely believe him (holding just a little bit in case he is really playing me here).
I do worry about such a friendship becoming more especially with the state that our marriage is in, but don't really see anything I can do about that right now and just hope for the best. I want to do all I can so that he views me in a postive light. It is just very hard because he has put up this wall and doesn't want to let me in anymore.
He doesn't talk to me about a lot of things and I don't know how to get him to open up and start telling me things like he use to. He said that he hasn't felt like I supported him and wanted to listen to him for a long time and just doesn't come to me for that anymore. He mentioned that I don't ever read his poetry while going through his papers (commenting on reading the letters from female friends and looking at address book) and that he emails these girls his poems and they tell him what they think of them. Honesty I have read some of his poems and couldn't comment to him as they are depressing and sad as heck. The last one he wrote that I know of, is about him getting killed while deployed. Not something I want to be reading about and overall I don't enjoy reading poetry so although that is a clue at an EN I don't know how to meet it.
I will have to try and work on figuring out some of his other EN and how to fill them.
So even though their might not be a EA, I should still do the Plan A thing? Other than writing him and sending care packages I don't know what I can really do with him so far away. Any suggestions?
Also, any suggestions on how I can get through this time all the while wondering if he is even going to give our marriage a chance when he gets back? That really plays on my mind and like tonight for example he was supposed to call (still in the states till Friday) and when he didn't I start to wonder why. If he just doesn't want to talk to me, did he regret saying he enjoyed the time together and was going to work on the marriage when he gets back, even did he call and talk to someone else instead (male or female). How do you deal with all the uncertainly?
Thanks for all the help and I am trying to make things simpler and shorter paragraphs, but just tend to be very long winded (both in writing and thinking).
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I would stay here on GQII. I think there IS an affair, and he is at least in danger of having on affair.
It sounds like one of his EN's is admiration. Or at least being understood and feeling wanted. Please try to read his poems and comment. Yes, you are close, and I'm sure they are depressing. Just remember that other women will show him admiration.
To change the title, go back to your first post on this thread and edit.
And if you aren't getting answers back, post to yourself to bump back to the top. A lot depends on the time of day you are posting and what else is going on.
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LIT,
Has he already left the home for deployment?
You not only have to Plan A, but you need to understand how your relationship is at risk.
Read about the Policy of Radical Honesty (RH).
You can also read Shirley Glass's "Not Just Friends". It goes into great details about the need for appropriate boundaries...she refers to them as "walls" and "windows".
It appears your H doesn't understand the dangers of his having open windows to his other female friends, and has thrown up a partial wall of honesty to you (and himself) about it.
As I see it (and the Harley's could advise you better, once you've read up thoroughly on all this stuff) you already know at least one of the things he needs that you've not been giving him.
His writing is important to him. You don't have to share his enthusiasm...or even understand it. What you do need to do is be honest with him about it...constructively...
For example, I'm sure there are passages that you can relate to...tell him so, and compliment how he was able to capture certain feelings.
With respect to the getting killed thing...that's tough. He has fears... YOU have fears. Your not talking to him about it could be construed by him as your not being concerned.
Have you talked about how much you love him, will miss him, are concerned for his safety?
Military couples tend to try to "be strong", and in not talking about these things can build up walls of misunderstanding.
Be open, loving, honest...and right now, don't PUSH. Don't try to educate HIM about MB stuff right now...he's got enough on his plate. Instead, educate yourself. To the best of your abilities, become the spouse he needs.
Best of luck LIT, and I'll be checking up on you often!
L2F
If God is a DJ, life is a dance floor, you get what you're given, it's all how you use it... Pink
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L2F - My husband (according to a 2am drunken phone call last night) is flying out tonight, so he hasn't left but is set to in the next day or two. He is in the National Guard so we don't live on base and has been doing the 3 months pre training for his deployment out of state.
I am very concerned that if he is telling the truth and isn't having an EA that one might start due to all the corespondence with female friends, but know that I am not going to be able to convince him of that. I plan that if we make it through this and get into marriage consuling when he gets home to at some point work on this issue.
Right now I am just not sure I can sanely make it to that point without detaching from him. I don't know if I can trust anything he says now that he lied to me and if I can't get past that don't know how I can do plan A and support him while gone.
I feel like I am going in a cirle as I am still wondering if he is cheating/might start and if that is the case don't care to continue this marriage. But if he isn't, then I still would like to try and work through our issues and show him in the next nine months just how great a wife I can be.
I am going to work on the EN thing of this writing and giving him feedback, just think I should wait a bit for that and find a good way to slip it in an letter or email so it doesn't come across as trying too hard.
He doesn't talk to me about his fears with this deployement. I have asked him to, but all he has said is that he thinks there is a good chance of him not coming back or at least not in the same condition. He feels that right now it has to be all about him (he can't be bothered with little things at home and doesn't want to hear about it) so that he has no distractions over there.
I have repeatly told him that I love him, miss him, and can't wait for these nine months to pass and have him home again. And won't push while he is gone anything about the relationship. I know that more questions about these female friends will only push him away and he could just lie anyway and me still not know what is going on.
How do I get over this big issue of not knowing if I can trust him now. It is eatting at me and I won't be able to do a good Plan A if I can't deal with this. The responses here feel he is cheating, at least emotionally, and not that I want people to lie to me about their opinions, but how am I suppose to set aside those fears for now when most think it is what is going on? I know that many here fight for their marriage even while an affair is going on, but I know that the right thing for me would be to move on. That is a betrayal I can't overcome.
Last edited by lit1022; 02/28/08 02:12 PM.
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believer - I am going to try and work on the EN of reading and providing feedback on his writings. Just need to find a good way to start it so it doesn't look too obvious in case he remembers saying that to me. I think if I look like I am trying too hard it will push him away.
Without having him fill out the EN questionaire, how do I figure out where I can work on things? I know he said he doesn't talk to me about many things because he doesn't feel I care and I know that when we do talk and I comment he doesn't generally like my thoughts so what do I do? I know know how to respond in a manner he will like and if I just don't say anything he will continue to think I don't care.
I will give an example of a conversation we had the other day and maybe someone can help me with a different reponse that would work. He was talking about his ankle injury (which since isn't broken or needs immediate surgery he still deploys and just deals with it) and I asked if he iced after the pt run. He said no they don't have ice. I asked about the packs I had when coaching soccer that you break up the chemicals inside and it gets cold like ice. He starts to act irratated and says that icing doesn't help anyway since it isn't a joint problem but more of tendons and ligaments. I responded that while I played the trainers always had everyone ice after a practice or game no matter what the cause of the injury. And then we just were quiet for a minute and moved on to something else since it was obvious that was going to start a fight if continued.
What could I have said that wouldn't piss him off? It isn't like I have no clue about sports injuries playing competative soccer for 15 years. I was just trying to help as he is always complaining about the pain and fact that he is just forced to continue on and expected to act like he isn't hurt.
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Maybe just try giving him sympathy and not giving him advice. I would try that.
Many men have admiration as their top need. Maybe you can ask about his days and find stuff to admire.
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Hi LIT! I like your new title...much more "curb appeal"...you should be in sales... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> RIF and Believer have been giving great advice. RIF has certainly "been there, done that", and is a great resource! I went back and re-read your posts and I'm really impressed with how self-aware you seem to be. That is something you can continue to build on to help YOU over the next year. I have faith that you have the strength to continue to grow...at an exponential rate, now that you're here at MB. I agree w/ Believer's take on the conversation. I too am a "fixer", and I tend to look for solutions rather than listen. My WW is the same way. Actively listening is difficult. Sometimes my WW just needed a sympathetic ear...with no solutions. Offering my own was seen as parental and controlling...who knew? Your early years, while difficult, were just that...the beginning. I'm a firm believer that each day you wake up and vow to do the best you can from that day forward. His childhood issues...blah, blah, blah... are just that... HIS issues. You're looking to YOUR stuff, and good on you! I know he said he doesn't talk to me about many things because he doesn't feel I care and I know that when we do talk and I comment he doesn't generally like my thoughts so what do I do? I know know how to respond in a manner he will like and if I just don't say anything he will continue to think I don't care. Wow...sounds like you both are trying to figure out how the other will respond before saying anything...resulting in self-editing. One thing I've learned in my own M is that even though I thought I knew what WW was thinking, or how she would respond, I really didn't. Projecting her responses/thoughts was disrespecful...and often inaccurate, resulting in missed opportunities to build our relationship...and in the end was just LB'ing You're on the right track here, LIT, and please, pace yourself...there's no rush here. Hope you had a good day today... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> L2F
If God is a DJ, life is a dance floor, you get what you're given, it's all how you use it... Pink
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Nothing really new going on as my husband is currently in route to his deployment station and won't hear from him for at least a few days now.
I was wondering if anyone could help me with a problem. I just can't seem to stop going over and over in my mind the recent conversation we had where I caught him lying about a phone number (and then said she is just a friend from an old job when it came out I already knew whose number it was, he originally said he didn't know whose number it was), but don't know how to go on without thinking that everything he says might be a lie.
Also now I go over and over the cell phone records looking at the date,times, and minutes he called this female friend. I can't stop doing it and it is driving me crazy. Its like I think I might be able to figure something out by the cell phone log and am driving my self nuts. I thought maybe I should get rid of the paper with this info on it, but I have gone over it so much I pretty much have it memorized and so how do I get it out of my head?
I did just start again taking an AD which I has stop taking last fall as I was doing much better with my OCD. And that should kick in in a few weeks and hopefully help some, but I think about these things (is he cheating, is he telling me the truth about everything, is he going to start cheating knowing he has at least three female friends he was hiding from me and now coresponding with while deployed?) all the time. I can't get anything done while at work or at home and just need to get the thoughts under control. If I just knew he was no longer lying to me I could move on, but without that I just don't know how.
And if I can't get passed this, I don't see how I can be a kind and supportive wife while he is gone. I know that he is very close to leaving me and although all my efforts while he is gone might not change his decision, if I don't let him know that I am thinking of him and supporting him I know that our marriage is over.
So, please anyone, how do you shut off all these thoughts and work on moving forward? The only way I see myself moving forward right now without going insane is to detach from him and again I know that will destory any hopes on saving my marriage.
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Hopefully the meds will really help you. Although even folks without OCD tend to obsess about details. That is very normal because you are finding out that your world as you knew it didn't exist. You are finding out that hubby can lie and cheat. So you are just like all the rest of us.
Your assignment will be to put the oxygen mask on yourself first. You will need to make a good life for YOURSELF. Then when you are stronger, you will continue making efforts to save your marriage.
Either YOU will have a better life without him, or he will decide to pitch in and work on the marriage. However it turns out, you will be just fine. It is just extremely difficult at first.
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L2F - You wrote about the problems with communication when one is trying to answer to suit the other person. I don't actually do that. I have always been very honest and that actually has been a problem in my marriage because I don't know how to do it in a nice manner and come across as too blunt and hurtful many times.
I do know that my husband on the other hand does always try to say and do whatever he thinks I want to hear. He hates fighting and would rather be unhappy than chance pissing me off. The thing that then has happened is I don't know he is unhappy with something and he holds it in and now years later I am finding out that he always felt we had to do things my way and resents it. I didn't even realize this was happening (at least not as much as it was) and that he was mad and just not letting me know.
At this point I understand we have this issue and am willing to work on it, just need him to give our marriage the chance and time to work on it. I just don't know how to not let the recent lies not overcome me and hurt the love I have for him. I can't continue in a marriage where there is not trust. Since I can't actually know he is cheating, do I just need to let that go and continue on as if he is being faithful. Because if I should keep it in mind (that he might be cheating) I can't keep treating him like a husband should be treated and in a manner that would want him to try and work things out with me.
Also do I just put the lies aside and trust that his apoglies about them are sincere? And his promise to not lie again, even if he is concerned about my reaction, do I trust he will uphold that. Because again, if I continue to wonder if ever little thing hs is saying to me might be a lie, I don't think I will get through the next nine months without resenting him and possibly falling out of love with him like he has done with me.
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believer - Okay, I don't actually understand what do you mean about making my life better first and then working on the marriage?
I have always been very independent and actually think now it might have been too much and caused problems in our marriage. But my life doesn't really revolve around him like many wifes does. We don't have any children. I work full time and for many years coached soccer both in the fall and spring. I have gotten out of coaching but still keep very busy between work and playing in adult leagues. I also work out and plan to do a lot of walking and possibly running this year as soon as the weather gets warmer with my dog.
I don't have any close friends other than my sister and mom, but keep so busy anyways don't feel it is a problem. So other than getting out of this funk where I can't get the thoughts about him, his female friends, and recent lies he told out of my head, what would I need to do to make a better life for me?
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Here's the thing - you are going to be quite miserable for awhile. It is only natural when you find out the person who was supposed to be your mate and best friend betrayed you.
It sounds like you are doing better than many BS's because you DO have your own life.
When you read and share here, and process everything, and see that all WS's do and say the same thing, you will get stronger. You will be able to get a plan and stick to it. And you will know that you will come out just fine, no matter how the marriage goes.
But chances are ALWAYS in favor of the marriage. Most come back to their BS's.
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