Everyone, Especially Jim and Shattered Dreams I could use help in this process.

Hopefully by my screen name will give a hint, I am afraid WW may be reading here and I would like to be able to be open and honest here so that I can do this right.

I had to edit my posts under my old name in case WW has been lurking, I dont want to tip off exposure.

I have had 2 sessions w/ SH and my WW has had 1 - I asked if she would be open to another and keeping an open mind so I contacted MB through email and they relayed to SH a concise note I sent and he is advising staying the course and holding off on exposure, It was my fear if I exposed b/f she speaks again with him that she would withdraw even further.

When WW asked to renconcile, I asked for and was given transparency, We hit a few bumps and WW withdrew, Said she lied about her having an A b/c she thought that is what I wanted to hear.

Since then I had been snooping as best as I can, Got details for the cell acct which she is the owner of and found out NC was broken, I should have known that allowing her to stay at the same place of employment could have led to this but I messed up my original Plan A and went to a quasi Plan B until she asked me for forgiveness and owned up to what I believe was the truth.

She has since blocked me from her cell acct, Although b/f I lost that part of it I noticed that she enrolled for text messaging - Found OM listed under a female alias, WW does not know that there was an option to have all incoming texts sent to an external email address so anytime he sends her something I get it on an email acct she does not have access to.

She has said she stopped contact but that is BS, She is gaslighting again and villifying me for several mistakes that occurred in about a month.

I am planning an exposure that I did not do correctly the first time around out of fear, This time I am going to do it right - Family, work and our children as I have no choice.

It is hard to know that all of this has come about again, WW has asked for a mediated D, I think b/c she wants to keep the A from being exposed so that she wouldn't be under the light.

I learned from my past mistakes and just need some support and guidance from other's.

Thanks for listening - WW has now moved out to the couch, is using distance and passive aggressive tactics I think to see if I will fail again, I wont, I can't and I am not going to do anything that will look unfavorably on me.

I guess I really didn't ask a question, My support group is very minimal right now so a couple of things.

1)How did anyone deal with reignition of A, We were doing ok until the 13th of Jan. and losing her like this again has been hard.

2)When exposing to my kids, How do I go about this in a loving way.

3) We were so close to D the last time, I am seeing IC but her schedule is full so I have to wait a few weeks b/f I see her although I can call in a crisis.

4) I know exposure this time has to be swift and inclusive which will po her really bad but I know this has to be done and she is going to have a hard time committing to leaving her job - I hate that I feel like her job is more important that a M.

I cracked her cell acct password, I will not let on this time. It took me 2 days and you can try to log in more than 3 times b/f they lock you out.

I still can't see what she sends for text messages but at least I can keep track of the amount and see if it matches the forwarded ones I get and hopefully if they trip up I will be able to see what is planned.

If anyone has suggestions on my earlier questions, I would really appreciate it.

I have no advice for you but here is a bump

Bumping this up.

I know there was some great advice around here recently on exposing to children.

I will see what I can find and hopefully add a link for you to other threads.

LC

Thanks for the bump and for looking for the advice, I am so grateful for this site, I am also posting in emotional needs b/c at first I didn't think it would happen again.

Thats what I get, As I mentioned I guess I was so happy to get our M back that I trusted.

I guess I am too feeling, Still need to learn to detach I never did the first time even with many 2x4's so some people stopped replying this time I am doing this right and have been reading and becoming a sponge.

If I had listened the 1st time maybe we would not have to be going through this again.

Thanks swans song and lifeschoice for the bump, I know weekends are slow and as I mentioned my support group is here, IC and maybe one or 2 people but that is only coworkers and I dont work weekends.

I've heard Jim say something like this: Exposure should be like a nuclear explosion. Do you have a plan on who you are going to expose to and what you are going to say? Are you planning on sending letters?

As for telling your kids, I know it depends on their ages as to what and how much you tell them.

I know you don't want to give too much identifying info but what age range are your kids?

I'm still working on those links, I haven't had much time to search.

I hope to see posters with experience in these areas jump in and help you out.

LC

Jim and others tried to tell me that the 1st time and I was so caught up between here and my feelings that I did not do it the way it should have been.

I really messed up my Plan A that was working, It was just that I wanted things in my time frame and let myself get lost in the pain of my emotions that cost me more and made it worse until I was the bad guy.

This time, I have MB as well as SH, I thought by talking to Dr Harley on air and MB that I could do it alone but now I have finally stepped back for the most part and the only thing I have to lose it what I have already lost.

It will be nuclear this time, I am still seeing who else I can expose to but have a very good start - The letters are written and I am rereading them to make sure they are effective, Along with the fact that my WW has agreed to another session w/ SH and he knows everything up until today for her session on Monday - I mentioned that I was waiting for his ok on exposure.

My list is her parents again, This time 2 people in her HR dept and this time I am not going to shield my chidren as I did last time, They have already been through a separation and very close to D and they have noticed how far we have fallen in about 3 weeks, They just dont know what she has been up to and that it was the beginning of the way things went down last time.

I am also thinking that our childrens friends whose parents are D'ed and that WW made me out to be the bad guy b/c of my emotional collapse in Jan 07 was all due to my behavior.

The mother of our childrens friends M ended due to her H's A so I am thinking of including her in the exposure, My D has relayed to me that her friend struggles with seeing her dad at times b/c her stepmother was the OW - That just came to me tonight.

Also I am feeling stronger everyday that I will have done almost everything I can to save our M and if for some reason we dont make it, This time I will have no regrets.

My WW asked for a mediated D, She made it sound like she was doing me a favor but the more I thought - She really has nothing on me this time.

By her dropping D proceedings it may seem that what she was using the last time was forgiven and I am in a better position.

Plus I contacted SH, I am in IC, She moved out of the bed, She gave transparency then took it back after I confronted her and the last time I exposed I also caved when I got the well " I was going to work on things but now....."

I have text messages he is sending, emails where guilt can be implied, saved voice messages of her expressing love for me until the 18th of Jan 08, She doesn't know I cracked her cell acct and will get next months details or as long as this plays out.

My children are 11 and almost 13, They know I want our M and family to remain together and heal.

My children were also asked by my WW last summer to lie to me about certain things b/c she said if they didn't tey may get taken away.

WW said me moving out was only to work on our M, They were on board and S11 asked why I left - I said I only left b/c Mom said it was for us to work on things, Even after she filed for D I still protected WW for over a month until I thought a D was inevitable, Where I sat each one down alone and said that even though I didn't want it that we may be Ding and I didn't want it to come as a shock.

Thanks again for asking and keeping me towards the top <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> especially on the weekend.

Newdg,

It seems you have a better plan this time and a definite bonus you have SH guiding you.

It sounds like when she started spewing venom at you, you backed down. That ia all part of the script, don't fall for it this time.

I suggest you change your title "I need advice on how to tell my kids" or something like that to catch people's eye.

LC

Who are the 2 people in HR? A letter should go to the DIRECTOR of HR, a key VP and both their bosses with the cc noted on each copy. I would send it CERTIFIED to HR so they will know you mean business. There is a good sample letter here somewhere that was developed by BritsBrat, a corp attorney who deals with this kind of matter. I will post it when I get back to my lap top.

Secondly, the kids just need to be told the FACTS and they also need to be told that a) adultery is immoral, b) why it is immoral and c) what you are doing about the situation. If you just give them empty FACTS with no moral guidance, they will just be confused.

I am glad you are back and ready to get to business! Better late than never!

Newdg,

Here is a thread you may find helpful.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB37&Number=3368023

LC

Thanks, LC! I found that workplace letter link on that thread: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...e=0&fpart=2

Lifeschoice Thanks for the link,

Melody,
Thank you also, I will explain to them and not just about the recent issue but also about why things got to the point they did last time and even though I messed up I did not cause that part of it.

The HR people are the only 2 contacts I know, I do know the VP's name but ironically my W had said before we fell apart the first time and after we reconciled that he was involved with someone there.

My thought was the email only b/c I was going to time it in such a way that all people would be done at once on an afternoon b/f she comes home so that after exposure at work,
She would come home and the kids would know, After that her parents and sister - So that it would be nuclear.

Not sure if that is the right approach or not, I will ask SH b/f exposing, It may be sooner than I think.

My W has an appt for monday, even though I cracked her password on her cell acct, The old username is still active and I tried to get in so that I could try to see sent text messages since I only can see the ones pos sends, I am having them forwarded to an email which then sends me a text to my cell w/ a copy.

Anyway when I tried to login it sent her a text for verification and I wonder if she will call in now.

The thing is if she is just upset about the 3 arguments we had and after confronting her w/ cell activity if nothing is going on why move out of our bed and on the couch if shes not guilty, She asked me for a mediated D under the guise of "not raking me over the coals" but I think it's b/c of all we have shared with each other andthe fact that she could have followed through w/D but asked me to come back.

She terminated the proceedings and not just put them on hold as her atty. suggested - In a sense I wonder if that somehow could be construed as forgiveness of those things?

new, who ARE these ppl in HR? Is one of them the DIRECTOR? The letter must also go to a high level VP and her boss. Even if he is having an affair himself, he will be forced to act on this when he sees that others are on the cc. So, WHO ARE the ppl in HR? Are they just clerks or are they DIRECTORS?

And yes, i agree it is good to time it all to happen on the same day, but I would send the letter CERTIFIED and time your exposure to happen on THAT DAY. They can easily delete an email. It is harder to ignore a certified letter with proof of receipt.


She is upset and is threatening divorce in order to MANIPULATE you into leaving her alone and stop interfering with her affair.


I am confused here. Forgiveness of what?

Newdg,

This is a little premature since you haven't yet told your children, but I want to throw this out there before I forget.

I am a huge advocate of journaling. I would suggest when you tell your children you also give them each a spiral notebook and a special pen. Tell them it is their private journal to write down whatever they want and no one will look at it unless they want to share. Tell them it is their own safe place to let out their feelings, (good and bad). Reassure them they can come to you for anything.

LC

lifeschoice,
Great idea! I will use that and I am seeing an IC for things again to see why A) I avoid conflict at times

B)Why, when I feel hurt I say things that I say things to hurt, When my W and I would argue I had said the D word and she uses that to the enth degree and even discussed w/ SH.
I have learned that when I used the D word it is only that I want to be out of the immediate situation not the M.

Also, My W has a long history of lying, Either self esteem issues or conflict avoidance on her part but I have always been on the side of telling the truth and encouraging my children to do the same.

Melody: With the fact that my exposure the last time was ineffective, In part b/c of my fear that my W would not be willing to work on things or whatever that I am unsure how to really do a good workplace exposure w/o some emotional details.

My W would never admit to anything and always had an excuse or something, When we got nack together she said that they were only intimate once after she filed for a D and stood by that for months until mid Jan this year where she said she lied to me that they were not and she only said so b/c she thought that is what I wanted to hear.

So without giving some info to them in that regards and sticking to just the business aspect what effect will it have?

I think the exposing to the children is my biggest ally right now, I have continually sheletered them from that as well as owning up in Jan when things became strained where during an argument about her disconnection from me that I said "I want a D" - I stood b/f my children and mentioned that I hurt Mom's feelings by saying that and my S said right away " Do you?" To which I said No!

They never knew about OM and after I moved out in June, She took them to him to get my S a rabbit from his XW.

She right now is acting in much the same way she was in late 06, Not who I came back to.

In the letters I have been drafting to her family, I have owned all of where I faltered but also that through everything still expressing my love and care for my W, Our M and our children.

After I faltered badly in early 07, I lost their support but when my W asked me to forgive her and to reconcile they welcomed me, My family did not accept her and in fact added to the stress of the holidays this year.

When we reconciled my W asked me to not share anything w/ her family about her A and again I protected her although there really was no reason to bring it up b/c of the committment I sensed, I also ignorantly allowed her to remain working where OM was b/c of the feelings I was getting from her, She worked hard to get where she was/is and for the things that I faltered on.

Originally she said she would but I wanted to show some belief in her and the contrition I saw.

Boy, This hurts waiting for Mon, I am waiting for exposure b/c he has texted her 6 times today, I am sure it would hurt more if I saw the other end of the conversation since I can only see what he sends her.

It is really hard keeping this to myself, But I know from the past that I have to, Since she think she has locked me out.

They seem to be discussing work somewhat but he is falling all over her.

Can I get you this or that - She says she feels I am too needy or whatever but yet she seems to be enjoying his attention.

Here is a draft of my letter to the VP if anyone cares to offer suggestions.

Dear Mr. B

This letter is to bring a matter your attention that may be a violation of your company's code of conduct and or other policies, procedures or business ethics.

OM POS and WW are involved in an extramarital affair and have been for some time, Aside from the potential sexual harrassment claims this situation presents it may involve inappropriate use of company resources and assets along with misuse of company time

Most of their interactions take place during the work day, I am the husband of WW and I discovered this in late 2006 and did not act on this.

In mid 2007 our marriage and family came close to divorce, We reconciled in Sept. and thought this was behind us but I have since learned that it has become an issue once again and their contact during working hours are being used to further their relationship.

I have enclosed some cell phone details from the past year that contact has been in the workplace.

If you have any questions please contact me at xxx-xxx-xxxx and I will be glad to answer your questions, Otherwise I will anticipate a response from you once you have investigated these concerns and taken appropriate corrective actions.

Sincerely
BS

A little long but here is the letter to her parents if anyone has any suggestions.

Mom and Dad,

I am not sure how long I will continue to address you as such but I am writing this to let you know that we are once again facing very difficult and stressful times.

As I relayed to you in late 2006 of the "friendship" WW became involved with and my faults that contributed to our marriage, On the advice of the marriage counselor I have enlisted in order to save our marriage and children from the effects of divorce I am bringing your attention to things in hopes that WW will see that nothing is more important than her and our children to me.

I lost so much respect and support after my actions in early 2007 when I let my emotions overcome reason and after several months I moved out as WW suggested so that she could have some time and to believe that it was best for our marriage in doing so.

When we reconciled in Sept. this past year, We thought we put things in place to avoid the things we are once again facing. Against better judgement and the advice of a renowned marriage counselor that suggests no contact for life with the person she was involved with WW even after offering to leave her job I allowed myself to believe we were on the path of recovery.

We were doing well for the most part until the stress of the upcoming Christmas holidays and the workload WW was facing where I asked that WW seek emploment elsewhere although not as lovingly as I should have and I said some things that were detrimental, WW said she forgave me and for the next month things seemed very good again.

After WW went out dancing with a neighbor, We again had a disagreement although once again I issued an apology that I thought was accepted until the next day where we both sat down to discuss things where things we talked about in Sept. were brought out.

You see when we reconciled we discussed many things, First was the fact that we both were unfaithful to our marriage with inappropriate relationships, Mine occurred against all the knowledge I had come to learn when I thought our marriage was headed for divorce. At that time I issued a no contact email to the person I had become involved with and stated that I was working on our marriage.

WW at that time admitted that in fact what I had brought out in late 2006 was indeed true and that the relationship was ongoing throughout 2007 and gave details that I asked about so that I could feel comfortable with.

We also at that time gave each other transparency and by that I mean bank accounts, email passwords, access to cell records and statements along with any other issue that should be shared with a spouses. She also asked me to never discuss with any of you what she shared with me and since I felt she was sincere I abided by her wishes.

The night we discussed things WW relayed to me after all the months we spent recovering that she had a confession, She said she lied to me for the sole reason that she thought that is what I wanted to hear, As devastated as I was since we made many promises to each other in Sept. one of my biggest promises I broke in Dec. and again on Jan 20th where I mentioned divorce.

Her promise to me was to be truthful since that had been one of my big things with respect to the things that had happened in our marriage, When she relayed to me that she did not tell me the truth my heart sank and my thoughts were shock, That I had shared with her and answered any questions she may have had about my infidelity and her answering mine for so long that how could she now say that everything was a lie.

I am sure that since you both have come to know one another so well after many years together that you can tell when your spouse is hiding something, I felt in my heart that she was truthful in Sept. and not so on Jan.14th although as her husband and for the fact that I broke a huge promise I wanted to forgive her so that we could move forward.

For the next week ww became increasingly distant as she had in late 2006 and my fear was heightened, We had come to enjoy many things since Sept and one was the amount of free time we spent with one another and our emotional closeness had never been better.

On the 19th and 20th of Jan. after a few days of letting WW to her thoughts, We engaged in several hours of conversation and thoughts I still sensed a distance and unwillingness from her, She had only said that she was mad at herself for lying but I sensed an emotional disconnection from us and if she was mad at herself and I was willing to forgive for the greater good why did it seem as it did.

When she returned from her visit with you that Sunday we again engaged in a discussion where our frustrations boiled over with one another and I was wanting things to return to as normal as could be where I said the divorce word again and as soon as I realized what I had said I asked for her forgiveness but she drew further away, I had become distressed greatly and very sad that in a matter of a few weeks that we had fallen so far. After several days of me feeling terrible and pained I asked of she would be open to marriage counseling.

I enlisted one of the best marriage counselors in the country and had an individual session with him and set one up for WW, I was still hopeful that she was just angry or hurt and was willing to put most of my feelings aside for the greater good of our marriage and family.

The marriage counselor said that he felt he could help us overcome all we had endured and I was hopeful she would be receptive.

I still had a sense it was not all about what has been discussed and my sense were heightened to where they were in late 2006, When her cell phome details were posted I saw that she had once again been in contact with OM pos the person she freely admitted to have been in a relationship with, When she got in that evening I asked her about it, At first I saw the color wash out of her face and sensed she knew she was cornered until I kept asking for her to work with the marriage counselor, She asked me to see a divorce mediator to which I replied I cannot, We have hit some bumps but it had only been a few weeks and after all the good we have experienced we should continue to work on this.

Upon finding the detail of her cell activity, I also noticed she set up text messaging which she never had and dug a little since the only contact was listed under an alias of , A neighbor down the street I searched further and found the person was actually OM pos, She immediately deleted him in my presence and I confirmed this on the cell site.

The next day she took steps to block me from seeing her cell phone activity as I felt she would, A day later she she started sleeping on the couch.

I know she has not broken contact with this person and continues to have contact during and after work.

At the guidance of the marriage counselor it was encouraged to let anyone who may have an influence on WW to again expose this inappropriate "friendship" and I am not doing this for any other reason of care, concern and love for WW and our children and I am asking for any help that those who care for her and our family for any help they can be.

Along with contacting the 2 of you and her sister, It was suggested that I contact her employer since most of their contact comes at work.

As much as it hurts me to do so, It was also suggested to let our children know and it was a tough decision and one I wished I didn't have to make but the more I thought about things and for the fact that I have always been honest with them and have admitted and taken responsibility for my actions or choices as a man, husband and father that I could not let them think that this was not a choice that I made. No matter what I did or did not do as a husband I cannot resume responsibilty for the improper relationship that has been taking place.

I understand how difficult this has been for you to read this or understand but please believe me when I say that I wish that it did not have to come to this.

There is a website that is run by the marriage counselor and author who has counseled thousands of couples on infidelity as well as a host of other issues if you would like to look at it and I am including the link.

marriagebuilders.com and after all the years we have come to know one another I am truly sorry for the things I have contributed to and want you both to know that I respect you and it is my hope that our family will survive this awful mess we have come to find ourselves in.

I would be more than eager to answer any questions or concerns that you may have and as forthcoming as you need me to be.

Love and Respect
BS

newdg-

As for exposure to the kids, I took advice from many folks here as well as Dr. Harley and Steve Harley.

The nuts and bolts are:

-be honest without using disrespectful judegments re: WW or OM
-tell them that having a boyfriend is against the rules of marriage
-tell them that even though you and WW have made mistakes, you still want your family to be happy and stay together
-tell them that no matter what happens that you and WW love them very much and that nothing will ever change that
-let them talk/ask questions
-remember to be age-appropriate with what you say - most kids even by age 5 know what a boyfriend/girlfriend is, so you're just explaining to them that once you get married, that's not allowed

I sat DS11 and DD10 down individually and gave them journals (thanks, LC) in case they wanted to write instead of talk. Then, I sat DS7 and DS6 down together.

I'm sure that some of the vets can weigh in on this. It was very difficult for me to sit down and do this, and the sh*t storm that came from WW after that was unprecedented. She says that she will never forgive me for it and that there is no way that she would ever stay now, but apparently, that's straight out of the Wayward Textbook. I certainly hope so. Be prepared.

Good luck and God bless.