I really need some advice. I’ve been married (fairly happily) for 14 years and we have a 4 year old child. There have definitely been ups and downs, but overall we had a good marriage. I admit that I’ve always had some trust issues (I remember them from when I was a young child…I don’t know what they are from), but I never had much reason to worry since my husband was one of the most loyal people I know.

After our child was born was a stressful time for a variety of reasons. Soon after that is when I noticed he started lying to me about things when he didn’t feel like dealing with my reaction (where he had been, things he had bought, etc). I tried talking to him to explain this behavior is eroding my trust in him, and he’d always say he did it to avoid upsetting me (yeah right) and that he’d stop.

He forgot that he installed a remote program on my laptop so that his emails would be visible (if I went to a certain site). I started going there occasionally because I knew he lied to me about things and I was sort of checking up on him. I know it isn’t right, but he also can be very difficult…he isn’t all that communicative and he seems to have developed a rather “secretive” personality. He’s my husband and I want to feel like I can trust him. When I’d read his emails and everything was on the up-and-up, I felt all warm and happy inside.

I started noticing “flirty” emails between him and a coworker. Over the course of a few weeks, they become more suggestive and he finally propositioned her for sex. He sent another email 2 minutes later saying he was kidding. Beyond inappropriate. I confronted him, and he was scared/furious. He was angrier than I’ve ever seen him, and later he was so apologetic and swore up and down that he was just bored and “talking trash” and he agreed it was so stupid.

3 years later, I’ve never totally gotten over that. It tore a piece of my heart off to read those words. But we’ve moved past it and we don’t discuss it. Lately our marriage has been very, very good. But he started taking night courses. I used his computer and I saw emails he was sending to a girl in his class (who he never mentioned to me). They were cute and slightly flirty. He was going to the library to do some research, and he invited her to come along and said he’d pick her up (all in a very familiar/friendly way…not professional). He told me he was going alone.

I confronted him, and he again apologized and said it meant nothing and that he didn’t tell me because he didn’t want to upset me (since it was no big deal). Then he quit the course because he says he didn’t want to hurt me or give me reason to worry. I didn’t want that. But now, he feels since he quit the course, there’s nothing to discuss. He’s acting very “business-like” with me (??) and when I gave him a letter trying to explain my feelings on this subject, he didn’t even respond.

Am I wrong? Am I being jealous/controlling? I am so confused.

Hi Sheela
Dr Harley says we should never trust our spouses, that we are all hardwired to have affairs so stop the guilty feelings ok?

Sounds as if the two of you didn't address the underlying problems that caused the EA three years ago. The problem is that these situations always escalate, I should know!.

This sounds like the recent EA/PA has not stopped, he just took it underground.

The vets will be by in a while to tell you what to do next to get disclosure.

Sad that this happened but you are in the right place!

Thanks for responding. Wow...I didn't know we should trust our spouses (not that I do anyway). Guess I have some stuff to read. But he used to be soooo trustworthy/loyal. I don't get it! I sort of convinced myself that the first incident with the coworker was due to his extreme boredom at work combined with a lot of situational stress that was in our marriage at the time. I really tried to move past it, but that underlying fear that he's lying to me is always there. I always have anxiety.

Do you really think this second incident is an EA? I was seriously hoping it was just poor judgment on his part and he truly had no bad intentions. She is married too and she seemed (from the emails) professional. He was the one being all familiar/teasing. I don't know...maybe he thought nothing of it, but knew I'd freak out because of the past so he avoided telling me? Still no excuse. But it makes me ill to think he's actually out looking for something else, especially since our marriage has been so great for the past year.

I know I can't live like this. Not trusting him, always worried, fearful he's lying (or omitting something). Honestly I think I'd rather be alone.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" /> I don't want the constant stomachaches. I realize I'm doing this to myself. I'm obviously fearful of losing what I have and I'm very insecure. I don't want to be blindsided.

Sheela,

After our Dday, we were having one of our discussions and FWW basically told me the same thing...NEVER trust your spouse, you should always be vigilant. Not fearfully paranoid, but alert to your spouse's mannerisms, actions, etc.

She was almost scolding me for being so trusting, ya know?

Anyway, sounds like you are keeping in tune with your H. And you are discovering bad behavior as you snoop, which is not good.

It does sound like he is casting out the lure, seeing what might bite.

I would not say you are causing your marriage to head for disaster.

Maybe some marriage counseling could be the way to go. The MC will help the communication get started and direct it the way it should go.

IMHO

kirk

Sheela
He sent flirty notes and invited a girl to come "study". He quit and you feel guilty? Sheela, there was only ONE path that carp was going to. You cut it out before it got a chance to get there. Good for you. Your husband has NOT GIVEN YOU a reason to trust him, so don't. ANd do not feel guilty about it.

PS A request for sex IS NEVER HARMLESS, INNOCENT OF JUST TALKING TRASH, it is what it is BLATENT DISRESPECT FOR A LOVING SPOUSE. AND DISGUSTING. You have every right to feel like you do.

ONE path that carp was going to.

That CARP!?!? AWESOME <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Quote: Your husband has NOT GIVEN YOU a reason to trust him, so don't.

So what do I do exactly? I posted this on another site I visit, and many people said the fact that he was offering to pick up a girl in his class to do extra project work at the library was no big deal. They said my jealous behavior probably made him feel he HAD to lie to me. I disagree. I don't REALLY think he was trying to seduce this girl (she sure wasn't interested anyway). I think he truly was impressed with her work in the field and wanted some tips. But I still don't give a damn. I read his tone as being a little inappropriate (too familiar/friendly considering he barely knows her).

He said he quit the course because he wants me to know I'm his priority and he doesn't want to do anything that will cause me to distrust him (a little late buddy) or make me worry. He says the course isn't important...I am. He said he just has bad judgment and he didn't mean anything by it. But now it is obvious he wants to move past it (he's said his piece) and I'm still over here upset and quite annoyed and not 100% sure I'm even right.

Yes, I know when he suggested sex to that co-worker 3 years ago it wasn't innocent. Here's why I stayed: she was being really suggestive in the emails (she's sleazy), he probably had low self esteem because of being stuck in a horrible work situation and our marriage wasn't in a good place at all at that time. And I know he didn't go through with it. So while I am still angry, I figured...lets move past it (even though it's still burned in my brain). He's human, he's learned his lesson. I hope. But I know it has made me more paranoid.

So now I'm sitting here with this fact: I don't trust him. Overall, honestly he is a really awesome guy. So what do I do...suggest counselling now? He'll say I'm blowing this incident way out of proportion and he won't want to rehash what (didn't) happen 3 years ago. I'm afraid I'll start looking weak and jealous and unattractive to him. Clingy. Maybe I already do.

Or do I need to work on counseling for myself? I swear, I HATE feeling like someone has power over me to give me stomachaches, wreck my days (depending on what I find when I "snoop"). But maybe I should work on myself so I don't allow anyone to have that power over me? It just seems so unfair...my life is an open book. I don't password protect my computer. He could read any email and there's nothing there. No untruths I've told him, nothing I've avoided telling him, certainly no emails to men. But you know what? He's not the least bit jealous. He could care less. He NEVER checks up on me. And I'm the dummy running around checking email and cookies and his cell phone. It is exhausting and I hate that I feel I need to do it. I'm just sad. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Look
i am new with my own set of problems, so I just want to let that be known. OK?

First off, you HAVE to realize that MOST people in this world DO NOT want to be held accountable for their actions, ALL THE TIME. I think EVERYONE wants their accountablity to slide every once in a while, but now adays, accountablity is a bad word. Why do you think religions are bashed so freely now adays?

If your H HAD NOT "JOKINGLY"(yeah right) asked that woman for sex, or if you hadn't found NUMEROUS flitatious emails, ok, the ride would PROBABLY AND I STRESS PROBABLY be harmless. But that is not the case.

Look, Im a guy, and while all guys are different, like say a car, they ALL run on the same basic plan. Look at the incidence of asking for sex. It built up, sloowwwwly, he was seeing if his little flirtations were seen as positive or negative. As his confidence of the womans interest grew, so did the scope of his requests. And believe me, it WOULD NOT HAVE STOPPED THERE.

The way I see it, there are M who cheat once, are ashamed and NEVER, EVER do it again, and then theres men that collected babes like people collect stamps. Your husband sure doesn't SOUND like a compulsive cheater, he really doesn't. But he does sound stupid as a box of rocks.

I am convinced that the REAL difference between a cheater and a non cheater,(I speak of men only, I am NOT so certain about women)is as follows. ANd this is why your husband sounds like a dope: A NON cheater NEVER PUTS HIMSELF IN A SITUATION WHERE CHEATING BECOMES POSSIBLE. A chronic cheater ALWAYS DOES. Those 'harmless" dinners, or rides, or drinks after work, or emotional confiding in someone of the oppisite sex, these all MAY be innocent at first, but you ARE BEGGING for trouble. Now, I know, I know I'll get a post about how someone had a real good friendship with someone of the opposite sex.....fine. NOTHING is true, 100% of the time. Living life is playing the ODDS alot of the time. Good husbands and wives realize that these 'innocent' occurances are dangerous and avoid them. This doesn't mean they become hermits, it just means that they are judicious in their relationships.

As far as what to do, there are a TON of people here who are well versed in the modality that Dr Hartley stresses. Me, Im a newbie in every sense of the word.

But, talking to someone is always good. I think you should let your husband know that his bed was made by him. The fact that he quit this class is good. Its good because he cares for your feelings. Its good because it seems that he wants to do the right thing. I have a feeling that down deep HE knew that there was more to it than just a ride. And you LOVE HIM. Never forget that. ANd if he loves you, you both should be able to do things FOR each other that may infringe on personal freedoms. So what? I would rather have the love of a phenomonal woman that be able to do 100% all my desires, 100% of the time. I think Dr. hartley's message is that loving couples are CONSTANTLY doing things for others.

Good luck. I think you got a good husband whos made a few boo boos. Its all give and take, I guess.

Thank you. I agree...about this particular subject, he does seem pretty damn dumb. I really need advice on one thing though::::


I am glad he removed himself from this situation. He also deleted her contact from his email account. When he offered her a ride, he said he truly wasn't thinking of it that way and he was stupid. Sorry. Won't happen again.

BUT this incident (as innocent as it probably is) really bothers me. He's a great guy. He's a great dad. I want to stop being all stupid and paranoid and just be a happy family. I don't want to keep bringing this up. But something inside me says this isn't totally resolved. I'm not sure he truly understands WHY I'm so upset (him not telling me about his plans and I don't like him being so friendly/familiar with members of the opposite sex).

I'm also left with the realization I just don't trust him. Even though he isn't doing anything now, this last incident will just compound my fear that he's doing things behind my back. I won't be able to relax. I certainly don't feel like spending the rest of our marriage "snooping" (ugh, I hate feeling like I have to creep around looking in his computer). Most of the time, I'm likely looking for something that's not even there. I would give my left arm to have that deep sense of trust that many of my friends/family have about their partners.

The coworker/suggesting sex incident ruined it for me. I'm sure he'd never ever done anything like that before. And she was definitely the aggressor for the most part...up until those last few emails. We'd been married for 10 years at that point (I was his first real girlfriend). I was depressed (postpartum stuff) and certainly not easy to live with. Maybe this was the first woman (other than me) that ever expressed an interest in him and it boosted his ego. No excuse, but I'm trying to understand how it happened.

But he still does little things that bother me. He has his computer set up to erase his history every day. He deletes all his sent emails. Now, I shouldn't know this, but I do because I snoop (sorry). Because I'm paranoid. But I can't bring it up without letting him know I'm snooping. And even then, I'm sure he'd be annoyed that I wanted to read all his computer emails and history. He'll think I'm super-crazy and jealous and he'll probably feel like he has no privacy at all. Like I'm being his "mother". If you're married to someone, it should be because you love them and want to be with them and enjoy spending time with them. If I keep this up, he's not going to find me very attractive to be with. He'll feel smothered, watched.

Overall I'm so confused as to where to go from here. Do I tone down the paranoia (as much as possible) and just try to keep a watch on things for years to come? That won't even offer me much peace as he's starting a new job and I won't have access to his email. I can't BELIEVE I even am in a situation where I feel I have to check his email!! This is so stupid.

What you do from here on out is to do your best to affair proof your marriage. Hope you will stick with us and read all about emotional needs, the policy of joint agreement and other things that make a marriage better.

I'm cautiously optimistic that things will be fine for you - partly because of hubby's reaction.

He WILL need to learn how to protect his boundaries - no personal meetings with work partners, no discussions about personal things.