Hi
Previously posted here:
<a href="/http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB37&Number=3371603&Searchpage=1&Main=3371603&Words=+spike7165&topic=&Search=true#Post3371603" target="_blank">Previous Story</a>

I had been doing Plan A and it was going OK. She was telling me she wanted to move away with me to Tokyo while he was on a business trip and then finish with him.

Problem is and was I didn't believe her, I believed that she did want to go with me but wasn't sure whether she wanted to finish with him or she would go for me for a couple of weeks then come back to me.

So consequently I have been unable to hide my fear and have been annoying and questioning her and asking her if she is telling the truth etc etc.

This weekend as well I saw some mutual friends and was upset and talked too much to one of her friends which made her angry with me today, I didn't say anything bad but she didn't like me talking about her. She didn't understand its because the weekends are ****** when she is with him and I cannot talk to her, so she blew off seeing me today and didn't call again.

So I am so depressed, haven't eaten all day can't get out of bed and think I've blown it and am actually thinking anyway maybe it's time to give up.

She still said she loved me today, but is obviously angry, it may blow over tomorrow she is kind of like that but I don't know whether I can take the rollercoaster anymore.

I am so scared that she is not telling me the truth it is hindering what was previously a good plan A

She actually said to me she wanted to be happy with me so when she went home to ****** she could see the difference and miss me but everytime I see her I find it so hard to act happy and do my good Plan A and end up annoying her by questioning her.

I'm so close to running I don't know what to do. Maybe the truth is she doesnt know which is a classic affair syptom I dont know. Maybe she did want to go with me and see what happens, maybe that is the truth rather than her finishing outright with him. Even so she is not being honest.

Sorry for ranting, pretty low right now. If you read my other post it was going ok, good Plan A and her unhappy with him and ready to leave, but the last few days have been bad and if I was her I wouldnt be thinking about going with me right now. What do I do....

You get right back on the Plan A bus and give it your all. Stop asking questions now. They are making her angry and it needs to stop because she is not yet ready to talk. If she was on the way to ditching him, you were doing great. Don't beat yourself up for some honest emotion about it all.

She is probably not being honest with you, but it can grow to be the truth with a good Plan A. And it does not matter what she 'knows' about affairs...she doesn't care at this point. You cannot try to educate a person in an affair. So you have to ignore a lot of stuff at this time, and do the Plan A anyway.

The best thing for her is to get away from him. So take her up on it and get her as far from him as you can, then Plan A her to bits.

Hello Spike

I know how hard planA is. You have to be strong and courageous when you are more scared than any time in your life.

But Nina is right - get back on the horse.

It helped me to learn and use "Loving detachment" in dealing with my Squid when she was wayward. This is in the post that is referred to in the signature at the bottom of my post.

It stops the irrational panic, and helps you stay frosty and together when you feel unable to.

Also spike, have you worked out what your personal boundaries are with reference to your wife ?

One of mine was " transparency". This meant that I required Squid to demonstrate to me that she was trustworthy, rather than me having to snoop. I found that very tiring and weakening.

I SNOOPED of course ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> But only to support what Squid was telling me. She HATED doing that for MONTHS but it became a habit and helps us start recovery without a doubt.

All blessings mate. You Can do this ! Even I managed it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

It's like I know what I have to do but fluctuate between strength and weakness.

The weekend was bad and went to see a mutual friend and shouldn't have talked but I need to to someone but she of course won't understand that.

I know I shouldn't be asking questions because it pushes her away and pressures her, she is even giving me hints to make her happy and telling me what to do, but the fear of her not coming back or coming with me for a couple of weeks then going back to him is horrible,

But I know that if I do keep questioning and pressure that is what will definitely happen. Crazy huh, you know something is bad but keep doing it.

I know my only chnace is t get back on a good Plan A horse starting tomorrow and no more questiong or pressure but I think I am going to do it then I see her face and can't help but question or ask her something or be a bit angry she didn't call me or something like that. I know it's crazy but I find it so hard to be dettached. I am an all or nothing kind of guy so this is especially hard for my personality I think.

I hope its not too late, she was so unhappy with him and ready to try somewhere new with me, even if she was not sure she would stay without trying it again, which is far enough at this time, I hope I haven't scared her off. She did say she loved me today, but I don';t think she wanted to see me adn was making excuses, though she did say something about doing something tomorrow.

I know how you feel Spike, honestly. But you have to stop recognising where you're weakness is hurting your plan A and lock it up.


You need to be a MAN and set the benchmark for righteousness and high-mindedness in a f'ked up situation. Be a hero to draw the sting from everyone affected's lives so decisions can be made while NOT in existential pain.
Spike your wife has never needed you to be a MAN as much as she does right now. She is incapable of a healthy relationship with anyone, not you, God or OM never mind her ownself.

Its your job to reestablish calm and a fertile environment for discussion. No-one else is capable of so doing.

I know exactly how you feel that everything is scary, and you can't help doing LB things but that is your emotional response, not fact.

You owe it to yourself, your wife and the vow you made before God to be strong and calm - a beacon of light and hope in a terrible situation.

Only then, once passions have subsided and calmness prevails can any of you make sensible decisions about your futures.

Whatever either of you decides permanently while hurting now will be regretted in future I guarantee it.

I have learned, and I truly believe that there is no higher state of grace for a man than to be what his family needs in troubled times, particularly when he doesn't feel capable of so being.

Be a knight not a serf. Take control of yourself and spread your calm through all your lives. Be restrained and objectived.

In that way you can be proud even if you DON'T make recovery.

Stop the (understandable) self pity and step up to the plate. Your wife needs you to save her from herself. Are you up to the challenge Spike ?

I'm just a bloke and I managed to do this against all the indicators. And I have never been prouder of anything I've ever done in my life. Understand that NOTHING YOU CAN DO can make you lose your wife any more than she is already lost to you.

Study MB. Address your issues. Love your wife while understanding the dynamics affecting her behaviour and thought processes right now. You will be amazed how much more positive you will feel when you are taking affirmative, brave action against your troubles.

And it starts now with being the husband your wife doesn't currently deserve.

Your calm and decency will shine like a beacon against the chaos of your WWs actions, and it WILL make an impression on the good woman that is captive beneath all her fog.

Hunker down for the long run but DEAR GOD it WILL be worth it. My life is transformed now - genuinely happy from a situation where that seemed impossible. But you have to calm down against your every instinct and act up.

Stop the whining and needy questioning. You're entitled to it but as Dr. Phil would say "how's THAT workin' out for ya?"
Read ALL the articles on this site. Buy "Surviving an affair". Sit at the feet of Mel, Ark, WAT, Just Learning ,Pep and the other battle scarred but proud warriors who have pulled SO MANY of us from the firestorm over the years. And have faith that you can do this.

Then start to identify people in OMs life that might apply a moral pressure on him if they knew of his affair. His W MUST know.
Also have you exposed to your wifes' wider family and friends yet ? Exposure is a very effective tool.

QUIT apologising for your current state and start listening to what experienced folks are telling you. apart from nina here, you've had RIF, Orchid and other smart smart folks advising you and you aren't taking any of it on board. DO IT ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I leave you with my question : "What would you do if you were not afraid ?"

All blessings !

I love this board, I've just realised how silly I am being and how i posted the same thing a couple of weeks ago, stress and tiredness seems to be affecting my brain.

I know it's weak, I know I need to step up, make her proud of me and give her strength.

Bob you are amazing, it's the first time someone has said what I can see in her, that she's incapable of a healthy relationship and that she needs me to save her from herself. This is a BIG thing that has been puzzling me, why she clings to me and loves me when she should in theory be happy with him.

It's why she said even when their affair was starting, and I never forget what she said "Only you can save me" she said that before I knew when she was thinking about a new life with him. I have always wondered when she should have been happy why she said that and I guess she always knew that she has problems and that he was not the man for her, but her addiction took over.

It's also why her friends and her all told me to go and find a good job even away without her and she would come back to me but I found that too hard to do.

Wow, Bob, I have been struggling for so long why she seems to love me and need me to "save her" her words and yours but why she stays with him and hurts me. Her friends now tell me and I believe them that all thats left with her and him is the challenge that she thinks she can change him, but of course she can't. I think his love bank is almost empty as well.

I know what I've got to do I've just got to find the strength. Be a good man, be strong for her, help her and support her even when she is being hurtful and get my [censored] out of bed and work out, get a decent job and sort my life out so I am atractive to her again while she sees me doing a good supportive Plan A as I have done in my good moments when not slipping. Sounds easy on paper, just need to find the strength to do it.

Her friend said to me on Friday that the huge thing I have going for me is that I don't control her but he does in the extreme, so I guess my pressure is a form of control and I am losing the biggest edge I have out of fear, stupid heh.

Dr Phil's right and you're all right, my Plan A was working good, then I have 48 hours I don't talk to her and panic. Fear is ruining my Plan A. I feel pretty stupid cos i am an intelligent guy.

She was telling me she wanted to move away with me to Tokyo while he was on a business trip and then finish with him.

what's the recovery plan beyound moving away..

what' HER plan of disclosure of all apects of her life to you..
cell phone
email access...

you will need to install without her knowldedge install a keylogger without her knowledge and monitor her contact with him...

is she seeking out a marriage counselor for you both in tokyo...

is her and your plan to be a new start with a whole new don't ask don't tell program?

that's set up to fail....

what if you were to move to tokyo yourself and plan B....

ARK

This is maybe the problem that I see as well.
I think that she does actually want to go with me or she did before the weekend, but I think she wants to see how I behave with her before finishing with him which is not good.
I know how she thinks and although he is obviously not good for her, I don't know what its going to take for her to actually say "enough" to him. She said on Friday she is ready to do that but I am not sure.
I don't know if even if she goes with me I am in for more vaciliation between the two of us, which will be very painful.
But my Plan A does seem to be working most of the time, like Bob says she seems to need a lot of my support and her friends say that as well that without me as her support in her life she would fall apart.
So I dont know what to do really. That is my big fear that she comes with me but then doesn't properly finish it with him and lets it drift while staying with me or she goes back to him and then tries to keep me on board until she finally finishes it.
I don't know if Plan B would be the thing to do in that situation, whether right now I shouldn't think about it and concentrate on Plan A and getting her away in the first place...

Not sure.

there are two things only that follow plan A...

one is plan B
and the other committed recovery....

if she is not committed to recovery and only committed to running away from him and herself....in theory with you..

I would argue that you and your marriage are worth a lot more...

what are YOUR plans to move.
do you have a date
does she know the date

do you know where and what you are going to do....
does she...

I would suggest you plan A your little heart...
then you move and plan B...

ARK

The question is what do you do if someone appears to want to commit to you and fixing things but you have doubts that they do, maybe they even don't know what they want.
Thats what I am afarid of that she comes with me and seems to want to commit to me but then still vacilates between me and him what then. When someone is on the brink of comitting what do you do then, Plan A some more or give up and do Plan B?

YOU PLAN A ! You have to do a tight plan A before plan B

The plot is to remind your WW of what a great spouse you are before you show her what life will be like without you in plan B.

Unless you can't stand the chaos she causes any more, I'd do a tight plan A before going to plan B.

Besides judging by your posts I don't think you'd be able to remain dark. You need to get some confidence and calm before you plan B.

The question is what do you do if someone appears to want to commit

there is no appearing..

there are actions...

she says I want to work on us..
you smile and say fantastic..

what's your plan to work on us...

she says
she wants to be with you
you say fantastic
what's your plan to make me feel secure in this relationship

etc etc etc....

I am telling you
more damaging
more heartbreaking
more detrimental to YOU your self esteem and personal psyche

is a false recovery hinged on a move....

it will devastate you if there is no real recovery plan...

no tell no talk just move on sweep it under the rug is crap....total crap...

you don't have to worry about anything if you
plan A really really really well while you are there..

and then plan B when you move....

what is wrong with that picture...

I am so afraid you are settling out of fear.
believe it's better to have her in tokyo with you than to not have her at all...

wrong wrong wrong...

even her plan to leave him the OM is a coward way...
move away....

then she can spend her first days in tokyo..sneaking the old illusive closure...

nothing like some good old chase and pursuit games...between the two of them....

if you believe that her coming to tokyo is a clean break you are delluding yourself....
and grasping at straws..

people who want real recovery
ROAR their intent.....

moving with her will by dropping him will mean months of withdrawal and most likely continued contact..while you are like a puppet thinking you are in recovery...

plan A while you are there......aggressively and strongly..
then some 180's as you plan to move...
then move and plan B..with a clear concrete pathway of actions from her for recovery..

she's gonna be stuck where she is with a crazy controling OM..
and a sane strong husband....who is smart enough to make NO demands from her...
strong enough to not be subjected to her abuse no longer...

and someone willing to go through great sacrifice for her....


ARK

I agree Ark I can see your points but what do I do, right now maybe I wasnt clear, I am in the same place as her and him, same location.
She says she wants to leave him and move with me to Tokyo but as I said I am not sure she will properly leave him or come with me then decide to come back.

So are you saying that I presumably continue doing Plan A while we are here, but with my doubts do I allow her to come with me or are you saying no, I dont want her to come with me and to move alone and do Plan B?

Thanks

She says she wants to leave him and move with me to Tokyo

so her plan is to cake-eat..have you both...then just up and leave with you and not tell him....

a woman who does this..
is someone whom you can value...
someone so honorless
so cowardly...



what about her plans for STD testing...
what has she said/done about that....?

have you told HIM that she is planning to move with you to tokyo..
have you exposed that tidbit to him..

has she

does he know she is planning to leave...

is he married...
Your original link did not work...

does he have children...

are you two living together...
does she go to him every weekend...

do she think and know where you are at all times...
and she's off doing whatever she wants....

what does she SAY about marriage counseling..

ARK

Sorry about the link here is the correct one:
My Story

In brief, I caught them after a lot of sneaking around, she moved out to him. The illusion of the affair quickly waned and she realised he is controlling and difficult and actually admitted she made a mistake.

She is still with him but seeing me most days Mon - Friday, she tells me that everyday they argue, and they have not had sex since the New Year but she has with me.

I know for a fact she is unhappy and I know she wants to go to Tokyo I just dont know what she wants after that.

I know she has behaved badly, she has had her cake and ate it and I believe she may try to keep on doing this. So what do I do, I just dont know.

My plan A seems to have been working, she said on Friday she was ready to finish it with him and come back to me and we talked about the things we had to work on. But she does seem to have her up days with me and down days, I guess when he is good for her and when he is bad.

So I feel I should continue trying with Plan A as the other posters suggest but what do I do if she does actually come with me to Tokyo? If I question her too much first, I will push her away, if she comes with me and I keep doing Plan A, she may still come back to him out of fear what he will do or for any other silly reason.

I know that is a real possibility so how do I deal with that?

call him and tell him she is and has been planning to move to tokyo with you...

you will know her true plans then..

then continue to plan A...even through her rage...and then either you move together...because she will be in the start of recovery...

or you will move in plan B....

you must not be intimate with her till you and she are tested

God only knows how many others he does

ark

Hi,
Ark first - I know that if I do that then she will definitely stay here with him and I may lose the only chance I get to show her I have changed by being with her for more than an hour a day which is all I get right now. What does exposing it to him do? I understand exposing the initial affair, but how does exposing her plan to be with me help the situation? After weeks of Plan A'ing, won't that just be the complete opposite man of the guy I have tried to be?

Also in general, I saw her today and she was still a bit angry with me, but we talked a bit, I bought her some flowers and she did mellow a bit and said she loved me a lot but as usual then had to run again.

She does seem to be more sensitive to any pressure right now. Could it be that as d'day no.2 (move to Tokyo) approaches she is getting more nervous and anxious about it? She keeps coming out with random comments about, soon we will be together forever be patient or something about being with her in the future but doesn't want to focus on the details. She seems to be feeling guilty about leaving him maybe, or is it the right decision as I haven't been doing my best Plan A in the last few days... Any ideas?

Spike

What would you do if you were not afraid ?

spike...

make no mistake her staying with loser controller OM is way way way better for your marriage...

than false pretending moving (running) away towards false false false recovery,....

you take her to tokyo with no recovery plan already under your belt...
she will use it as a weapon against you...

she will say
you brought me here
I am lonely here
I had to come here

I never had closure with him
I never said a proper goodbye...

what if her plan to move with you is just a ploy to see what HE does....

blah blah blah...

don't you see how empty her words of love are without loving actions...

leave her in plan B...
let her wallow in her affair...
and she'll be following you soon enough to tokyo...

plan B is the best
wanna talk about no pressure...
give her what she wants...

ummm exposure is actually manning up...
plan A is not and never has been about condoning the actions of an affair...

it is not giving permission for contact..
it is continually speaking the internal damage of the contact...

I am very very concerned about the run away to tokyo plan with no recovery plan...

I honestly think you should keep plan Aing then go to plan B when YOU move...

ark

Spike,

""What would you do if you were not afraid ?""

Can I get an AMEN for our brother Bob!!??

I read your story and shuddered when I read that you are fulfilling her EN of FINANCIAL stability! So she visits you for an hour, picks up the check, gets a hair cut, or eats a good meal and then flies back to the "control freak"?

I put control freak in quotations because we all must remember that the UNFAITHFUL, ADULTEROUS SPOUSE LIES CONTINUOUSLY!!!

She had not had sex with him since New Years??? She is bad mouthing him and letting you know that she is about ready to leave him??? AND THEN SHE GOES BACK TO HIM????

Am I missing something here?

Sorry, but I have not been following your sitch from the beginning.

Sometimes I can be a really cynical and this must be one of those instances.

That you are believing anything and/or everything she says to you while she is LIVING WITH THE OM paints a bleak picture.

How long have you been in plan A?? You are moving back to Tokyo on a certain date?

On one post you indicated she was vacillating between you and the OM. This is also described as fence sitting and or cake eating. And vacillating with you for an hour and the low life for 23 hours??

Ark is right, call the OM and tell him of her plans to go to Tokyo with you. What's she going to do, not ask you for any more $$.

I think you have a much bigger hammer here than you think you do.

And lastly, "she is still angry with me". How absurd does that sound standing back and looking at the entire scenario?

Stay strong and grow a couple!

kirk