Hello; I havent posted in a while, guess I was fooling myself thinking things would work out. Not going to drag all the old stuff, maybe my older posts are here somewhre. Up to the present; relationship with husband has gone down hill fast. we moved to illinois to be closer to his family that is aging. Husband still has problems with my 16yr old who he has been with since we got together 8 yrs ago. Son is typical teenager, girlfreind problems, trying to get a job in a tiny town, wants to drive etc. My husband nit picks at every single thing the kid does. Son is NOT PERFECT but H NEVER says anything nice, always critizing and putting down son, son verbalizes his anger and resentment towards H..u can see the pic. I am caught in the middle and my nerves are shot. Son barely speaks to H and the same with H now. My oldest son just moved here also to be close to me. He has 2 babies, one is 2yr and the baby is 8 months old. I love my kids and grandkids. My H DOES NOT like children..I never have found out why..he says that is the way he is, he just doesnt like kids!!! Well last week my oldest had just arrived in town and they need shopping for furniture, food etc. They left the 2 yr old with me for about an hour on 2 differant nights. When they left, my H says " this SH** isnt going to happen every night, you know I dont like kids and I dont want those kids here every day!! Tried to tell him that I was NOT going to tell my son and granddaughters they are not welcome in my home. I am now having to pay H 1/2 of all the house bills and I feel I have a right to have my son visit and IF I want to babysit once in a while I should be able to. ( I am very close to both my sons). H got really pissed and frankyl so did I...
I was hurt and told my husband that he was being unreasonable...I do everything I can to help him with his elderly relatives and have gone above and beyond when his elderly aunt fell and broke her hip. I was there every day , all day, cleaning, helping her, changing her dressing, doing her medication shots and rehab therapy..How can H now tell me my kid cant be here evry night <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> which they arent anyways..
After that incident, I did not speak to my H anymore,kept it to only what was absolutely necessary, He is stuck in his way or no way!! and i was not going to argue anymore. H seemed fine, he didnt talk to me either.
now a day ago, i thought the situation had calmed a bit and approached H about trying to work all this out. We discussed the above incident ( he stuck to his guns) we discussed the way he treats my 16 yr old son ( he stuck to his guns, I dont disciline him, I let him do whatever he wants etc..NOT TRUE) and then I discussed H lack of romace towards me, no communication, no sex, nothing...he responded with his frustrations and said that he was sick of living like this and he isnt changing his views. Starts to bring up stuff my 16 yr old did months ago..well I told him I do not believe in a 50 yr old man coming to blows with a 16 yr old, and that we needed to pick our battles with son. He does not do drugs, no alcohol, no gangs etc..he gets mouthy sometimes, and has learning problems at school. ( which son is going to counseling 2 X a month for.
bottom line, H said, that he wanted me and son out of the house and maybe apart we could figure out our problems, Maybe we are too used to each other , maybe he is bored of the situation, etc etc etc. NOTE***none of my H previous relationships have lasted over 3 yrs by his own admission. HMMMMM is every other woman wrong or is it him??????
Now I am on disability and trying to get into a HUD apt, which could take a while. H is kind enough to let me stay here until I am approved. He is calm, I am packing some of my things, and he seems perfectly content to come home, eat and watch TV. Its like he doesnt care and is actually looking forward to having the house all to himself.
My heart is breaking, I love him and wish that he could see my side of the story and the way he has acted towards me and my kids.

Please, how do I treat him while i am here waiting for the apt..I dont want to cry or try and talk to him about this. I dont think he will change his mind..I am afraid that once I am moved, he will find someone else ( he says he isnt looking) and then I will be alone, in a state that I have no friends, and no one except my kids..after he dragged me up here...I am sad, disappointed, hurt and feel that H may have had this plan for awhile, just now blaming everyone and everything to make me the bad one <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

How can we work on the marriage if we live apart ???? He says maybe we will realize we miss each other, maybe we will want to work harder at fixing the problems. I dont think so...outta sight, outta mind...

PLEASE HELP WITH ADVISE

Luly <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I'm sorry you're going through this. Frankly, with his difficulties staying faithful, I would have to think about this really hard before I decided to stay, and I would feel obliged to hear what my 16-year-old said about it too.

You have a degree - could be financially independent - have no biological children together but do have 1 minor child and 2 grandchildren - none of which he is interested in personally or wants to mentor.

I think this is one of those situations where you're going to have to ask yourself if you're really happy with this man and is your life really better with him in it?

Maybe you could pay rent to your eldest child and stay with him until the apartment opens up.

Since he has been repeatedly unfaithful, I'm having trouble believing that the relationship is worth the struggle. It could very well be my mood today, but you only get one chance in this life and time doesn't stand still while we hem and haw about something that really isn't enriching our lives like we thought it would, you know?

Think about it - you deserve to be happy too, you know?

Hi Luly! Sorry to see you back with this news. I'll respond more later this evening, just wanted to send some HUGS your way.

What happened, why are you on disability? Were you unable to get your massage practice going again after the move?

How wonderful you have grandbabies! I'm jealous. More later.

Thxs Soolee and Laura; I have alot of thinking to do but like I said, its hard to start all over and be alone again ..never thought this would be my life at 49 :-(.
He seems so content, yet I feel heartbroken and scared.

I was not able to start my business here..never had the money and then I threw out an old back injury,now have 2 herniated disks in the neck and lower back, so doing medical massage and rehab on patients is hard and painful.

Laura, glad to see you again....and I guess i will be visitng this board often :-(

Update and so confused!! I am trying to find a place that I can afford ( not easy around this one horse town).
Last night H came home in a PISSED OFF MOOD. the minute he walked in the door he started yelling and telling me that I need to stop the rumores that I started in his family OR ELSE he would tell everyone in his family about "my cheating" with John and JR and that my oldest son moved here to escape the legal problems he was having, and that my youngest son is an [censored]*** and thats why H asked me to move..he is apparently the victim here!!!!!
I tried to talk to him, didnt know what the heck he was talking about. The only person I have talked to is his cousin..she knows everything that has happened in the past and now. I can talk to her, she makes me feel comfortable and KNOWS that my H is a BUTT!!! H Made me call her and I put her on speaker phone and she told him that I NEVER SAID that he was cheating on me..she doesnt know why the rumor started. She says that all she told Rick ( his other cousin) was that we were having problems and u had told me to move. H apologizd to me but I was still upset that he would go so low as to spread personal issues about my kids to his family to make me look bad and him look like the poor abused husband and victim!!! He went on to say that he would screw me over and let the car and motorcycle go back to the banks ( they are in my name but he drives them only and is paying fro them) if I didnt stop telling our personal problems to his family.

i cried i was so upset at him and then asked him if he was going to turn things around like that, maybe I needed to hire a lawyer, since apparently he was keeping his word about keeping the cars and payment so my credit wont get shot..he seemed to calm down and said No you dont need a lawyer, I wouldnt say anything to my family and I was just angry....
This AM , he comes and gives me a pink envelope.I open it and there is a valentine card..it says, to a dear, thoughtful FRIEND!!! And inside says " Hope we can get together soon"!!! I looked at it and started to cry..FRIEND?????? I asked him about that and he said all the other ones were like to my loving dear passionate wife, love you with all my heart etc etc and that they didnt seem appropraite...he then got mad, cuz nothing he does is OK with me, its never enough. UGHHHH I told him it just mad me sad or shocked that he would give me a card to a "FRIEND" and that I was hurt...he said, not much selection and none of the other ones looked appropraite. I just dropped the subject. Then he asked me if I wanted to go out to dinner tonight???? So i asked :is this a date?? is it just me and u or can son come also??? he got pissed about that..he says, Why cant u just take what I say the way I say it??? Well DUHHHHH cuz I dont understand what u r asking...so he said, just decide if you want to go to dinner and Yes, your son can come too...

Am i totally DUMB here or what the heck is going on with him??? I have asked if we are going to work on the relationship, he says yes, but cant explain how??? are we going to date??? he says we will see each other all the time, and I say yes, drive by and wave or what????
I dont know anymore...but he is sticking to his guns and wants me to move..he isnt putting pressure and I keep him informed of what I am doing as far as trying to get a place I can afford..
PLEASE give me some insight..maybe an outsider can read more into this or try and explain what he means!

Luly

What is keeping you there? Besides the logistics and your inability to find a place - on an emotional level - what is keeping you there - with him?

The only thing I can figure is that he is intentionally sabotaging the relationship for some reason. I would hire someone to investigate him or ask a friend to follow him to see if he's cheating. Either way, I think I would be hard pressed to stay. If my husband said such things about my children, my love for him would be compromised if not gone entirely.

I'm having a hard time figuring out why you want to stay. Why do you love him, exactly?

I am really trying to find a place to live..and Yes I am mad and angry that he would say those things about my sons.
Thisis a small town, I am new to the state and do not have anyone except my sons. I know I dont want to move back to FL, i sure as heck cant afford to live there.
So I bidde my time and keep looking for a place.
I do love him,and I am afraid and I guess sad that this marriage I think is over. my first marriage ended after 23 yrs and I never thought I would be alone again heading into my 50's..its just sad and scarey for me. Maybe I am a coward or wimpy woman I guess, I dont know..but the thought of being alone for the rest of my life is SCAREY to me.

Like i said, I love him. I am not looking forward to seeing him with another woman if and when he starts dating ( he denies he is going to do this)
I cant ask anyone in his family to check him..everything seems to get back to him..like the incident above. Not that I think his family will shut me out completely, but they will stick by him I am sure.

Can you borrow or rent a car and wear a disguise to follow him?

Another alternative is for your younger son to live with your older son either permanently or until the end of the school year while the 2 of you get some counseling and work on your marriage. You could give your elder son money each month towards expenses.

I realize you love him, but WHY do you love him?

How does your 16 year old son feel about all this? I have a son the same age and we went through something similar this past year........it was very hard on him; and even after I divorced my 2nd husband, my 16 year old is still acting up alot. One thing that's really helped is that he and I have a date one night a week, go out to eat, talk about stuff. I'm surprised at how much he opens up to me; and I"ve learned alot about how he feels about MY relationships.

As to your husband......if he asks you out and you want to work things out with him, inviting your son along is NOT a good idea. You already know he doesn't like the kids around, it's just asking for trouble if you invite him along to dinner. Go with your husband and have a good time; don't dwell on the bad stuff right then.

Perhaps you can talk to him about the grandkids coming over. Is there a night he does something, like bowling or working late? Talk to him about having the grand kids just one night a week, or going to your son's house to stay with the kids once or twice a week instead of having them at yours.

Anna

Luly - Update us. Sorry I haven't checked back until now. I had to avoid the computer chair at home while my back was "out;" I twisted it and it was ouchy for a couple of days. I'm at work but will check to see if you've had time to post.

well for now I am going to my oldests sons house every day, i see the babies and the 2 brothers can hang out for awhile. H doesnt get home till after 6;30pm so thats OK.
H is not a talker, so i cant get him to expand on much. His main problems is with my 16 yr old. Son can BE A PAIN, and my H is a nit picky Pain also. They do have the moments when they actually kid or joke around, but these are few and far between. Not sure how my 16 yr old son will take it when I tell him we are moving. I havent said anything yet until I find a place just to not add tension and fuel to the fire.
H is calm and doesnt seem to be bothered by the fact that I am moving per his request. I have stopped asking him ??? about what we are going to do once I move out. He says we will see each other often ??? Dont know what the heck that means, but he says we will work on the relationship.
I blurted out to him the other night that I was confused and that IF he thought we were going to live apart for the next 2 yrs until son turned 18 and was on his own and then I would coming running back to his arms???? He didnt answer me just kept bringing up the stuff my son has done in the past that have pissed H off...
I DONT KNOW WHAT TO THINK ANYMORE!!!!!
But i am staying on track and will continue to look for a place, but H is NOT RUSHING ME OUT!!! He hasnt told anyone in his family yet although his cousin knows cuz we talk and I told her...she thinks H is a jerk even if he is her cousin, so I am sure the news will spread in the family soon enough.
In the meantine, H gave me gas money the other day and gave me 115.00 to cover an overdraft in my bank acct..so I dont get him..gggeeezzzz..its like he says he loves me and is not looking for anyone else, but I think he feels like he is tired of the fighting and arguing and when we live apart he can still have a relationship to me but not the hassles of raising a teenager?

I feel my son can be a handful and does get mouthy and sulky , to me that is a teenager, son does have anger management issues and is going to couseling 2 X a month and I see small improvements. He is going to an alternative school and is getting B's and C's in everything, up from all F's in the last school just a month ago. He has had NO discipline referrals at all at this new school and is probably going to finish the semester with all A's according to his teacher..I am very proud of him!!!

As for my feelings towards H, well its confusing, I love him, but I am mad and angry and dont like him much right now. I dont want to face the idea of spending the rest of my life alone <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> never thought i would be where I am now at my age..but he is sticking to his guns I guess.
What i really would like input on is how DO I BEHAVE while I am still here???
Do I just ignore H and talk only what is necessary?? Do I act like I am OK with all this and am moving on with my life happily?? Do I try and reason with him and maybe reach some agreement and stay and work on the marriage and relationship?? Or not mention it again until he comes looking for me????

CONFUSED !!!

I don't know, Luly. A part of me wants to say to plan A like crazy so that the withdrawal from you once you move will be brutal.

Another part of me thinks you're getting the shaft and shouldn't care WHAT the man does with himself.

I'm sorry I can't be much help here.

I suppose you could cook his favorite meals and keep the house clean. Do things for him that he enjoys the benefits of but can't or won't do for himself once you're gone. AND...once you're out - STOP doing those things. He's in for a rude awakening - doing his own cooking, cleaning, ironing, clothes washing. But I would allow him to feel the full impact of not being supportive and patient in the relationship and losing you in the process. A little 'cause and effect' lesson, you know?

Others may advise you in a different way, so just take my .02 in stride.

Luly - Just some thoughts. I think your H loves you, but it would seem he never completely bought into the idea of marriage, especially the MB way - POJA, successful negotiation, fulfillment of ENs. Did you ever read Harley's Buyers Renters Freeloaders? Your H stayed in Renters mode - when things are going his way, he's happy. When they're not, out-out-out-done.

And, to be honest, you sabotage the headway you make by LBing when you communicate with him. You always have. You let him get under your skin and you come out blasting. When I say "blasting," I doubt you're always screaming at him...but it's in your words. You don't show respect to him consistently. It's a vicious cycle.

I completely understand your feelings and I feel absolutely the SAME WAY YOU DO - that you should be able to babysit your grandchildren any time you want to - but I'm not your H, and if you want to save your marriage, of course he's the one with whom you're going to have to communicate/successfully negotiate. I also understand where you're coming from concerning your youngest S. He's doing better, YAY, pick battles, sure...but you can't TELL your H this. You need to come to agreements WITH him, and stick with them. I don't get the impression from what you've shared that your H wants anything BAD for your S, but in your opinion he's overly nitpicky. Take it from one woman (meeee) married to an obsessive-compulsive acting guy who nitpicks every single little thing - all the nitpicking may not be so bad. It's how you handle it. With him. AND your son.

You've been in this spot before...separating. And it didn't happen. What do you want? Maybe your H IS thinking after your youngest is on his own you'll live together again. Harley has recommended that in some cases. On the other hand, maybe you want to explore the possibilities of negotiating to stay. It's gotta be a tough situation. I remember very well that your H does not consistently meet your ENs, so there are underlying problems anyway.

Your question, how should you be acting right now. Calm, self-confident...and nice and respectful. No point in asking him what's going to happen down the road. He doesn't know, and sounds kinda confused himself amid all the bickering. Since you love him, I like the Plan A idea. Work on his top 2 or 3 ENs and provide those in abundance. Quit sharing your relationship info with members of his family - after all, no matter what happens, they will ultimately be in his camp. I think that "trump card" is only good for exposing an active affair with proof. Other than that, it usually doesn't help situations.

I'll agree with this:

Sounds like he simply doesn't know how to handle adversity. Many men don't. Were never taught to work things out, just to argue. You could teach him, if he were willing, but I doubt he'll be willing unless you either set firm boundaries or move out and make him 'earn' you back in his life. You don't sound capable of setting boundaries, so I wouldn't advise it. And moving out runs the risk of him deciding he likes it better without you. But if I were in your shoes, I would probably like it better without HIM.

Do you read? Can you start reading some books on verbal abuse, communication, things like that? Sounds like you just need to be in a position of strength and knowledge, and you can't do it in your situation.

Who is caring for your son's kids? Can he hire you for that? So you can afford to get your own apartment? For now, until you can move out, keep working on the MB principles, and become the best person you can be. When you leave, he'll realize what a jerk he's been and may be willing to start working on his half.

Right now I am trying to be really cool. H does come home evry night, not much conversation, but thats never been His strong suit. Son started a job at Burger King last night, so that will give him some extra money to get a car and out of the house for a while. Being a small town the kid feels trapped in this house all the time and on weekends.
I know that I have to pick myself up and go on. I am trying to be out of the house as much as possible, then at night I watch a bit of TV while H is on couch. At 9 pm i say Good night and go upstairs and watch TV in bed. I leave hima lone on the couch to "enjoy the quiet" LOL . By the time he comes upstairs i am asleep or pretend to be. I am wearing my hair down even if to go to the corner market, am wearing makeup and trying to act calm and happy. Not asking H "what is going to happen" not asking him anything personal, just idle chit chat when appropraite.
Lucks, you know my situation so well friend, and I have been thru this with H many times and when things are going HIS way all is fine.

I did notice last week he has taken off his wedding band. But when I asked him, he said, well u havent worn yours in months. I havent, but not for the reasons he is thinking. Its just easier to do stuff around here with out a wedding set and diamond on my finger..but i didint respond to his remark.

He is going to Nebraska next weekend for a large family party. His nephew got married. Originally he was planning on me going, but last night his sister called to give him driving instructions, and i was not included in the conversation. Nor did he ask if I had finally decided to go or not. So I take it as I am not going, which is fine with me.
Unfortunately, he is very self sufficent, he feels he can do anything better than I do anyways LOL..he can cook, clean, wash his own clothes etc. He has been a bachelor for a long time since none of his many many relationships have lasted more than 3 yrs!!! I guess we have been together almost 8 so I broke the record or was stupid enough to hold on that long <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Will keep ya posted, will try some of Plan A ideas..

Huggs to all
Luly

Luly - Glad to hear your S has gotten a job. I think it's great when teens take on the task of working; it starts preparing them for adult life. Not only is it good for him because he'll be earning a paycheck for pocket money as well as starting to earn for dreams (a car, college savings?), but you and your H have the opportunity to enjoy some time alone at home. Now, what you both do with that opportunity remains to be seen, lol.

Hey, he had a valid point about the wedding rings - you're not wearing yours either. Why did you drop the conversation? Did you think about why you pointed it out beforehand? Were you just trying to strike a hit and run away (hmmph, look at how bad you are), were you expressing hurt in that indirect way men never fathom (sniff, not wearing ring, you don't love me?), or were you actually trying to engage a conversation that might result in mutual understanding and successful negotiation?

I somehow suspect you are rationalizing excuses for not going to the family party in Nebraska because you don't really want to go. Not wanting to go is fine, but take ownership of it...don't cast the entire blame on your H due to the phone call and no direct invitation now.

While he certainly isn't a saint, and he isn't a communication whiz by a long shot, not everything is your H's fault, m'dear.

I think sometimes your H has just wanted validation of his feelings, Luly. He'll pop off with what he's feeling...and talking about FEELINGS is kinda foreign to him anyway, ugh, but he tries to convey them to you albeit like a bull in a china shop...and your reactions shut him down. I know, know, KNOW this scenario. I fail in this department too when I don't count to 10 and THINK before responding. We women have at times a VERY strong reaction to a few words that we can blow out of proportion even more than the poorly communicated presentation meant!

"That boy will never amount to anything." Fightin' words to an adoring mom. Perhaps a poor communicator meant to say, "I'm worried about him if he keeps up this attitude...if he doesn't start saving money...if he isn't more responsible...." Whatever the case may be. Or perhaps that poor communicator was trying to say, "It makes me feel angry when he leaves wet towels on the bathroom floor. I don't appreciate feeling forced to clean up someone else's mess." Instead, he said something like, "*I* am king of this castle and you WILL straighten him out or both of you can just leave." Or, "He'll never learn anything because you aren't tough on him." Or anything remotely like, "my way or the highway."

Even these poorly communicated comments are opportunities. To listen, to clarify, to try to calm and soothe, to interject a little humor, to express yourself in a RESPECTFUL way. Remember to take the high road, even when he's hurtling at warp speed along the low road. No sense in you both wallowing in the mud. Unless you miraculously agree to some weird, sensual mud wrestling??? That would be okay....

Oh I know I LB like crazy! And I am trying to be calm. Tonight son is with his brother and H came home, dinner was ready and I was pleasant.
I dont know how to explain, its like H CAN NOT or will not expand and communicate...so I feel in limbo. Someplace I do not like to be. I cant talk to him and get him to expand on what he wants to happen after I move out. His responce, " I dont know" "we will see" etc etc etc. Thus I am in Limbo.

again tonight he starts with all the bad stuff my son does, the mouth, the mess in his room, the dents he put on the door trim.( house is over 100 yrs old and the wood work was going to be replaced anyways, why linger on it for ever? etc etc etc . Yes he did do that, but that was months ago and I got frustrated and told H , Yes but what about the 8 Yrs of the stuff I HAVE FORGIVEN from you and loved you and kept trying to make this work.
That was it, he started in on every little thing he could come up with, I didnt say more, got up and came upstairs.

As for the wedding party this coming weekend, I would have felt better had H asked me to go, but now, its like more of a hurt thing with me that i am not included. And he is happy as a clam, he comes and goes, no calls to me, no explanations nothing, I guess just waiting it out....

Uggghhhh I hate this and I am really trying to be nice and find a place and GO. Will he miss me? Hmmmm probably not ! It would be nice just to get an occasional hug from him, i feel it is a problem between my son & him, and I will do what is right for my son, but H treats me like a picture on the wall and that hurts..
Am I just stupid?

Hey Laura; forgot to put this in previous post...my Yahoo Messenger is 'brattyluly" and my email is luly727@mchsi.com

Would like to chat more, you know me so well LOL and u have been in on this mess I call my life since the beginning...email me

Luly