Since I was having problem with changing the subject line in my original tread and not getting much traffic from this board, I thought maybe starting a new tread will help or maybe not. You could see my original tread from the link in my signature block.

Anyway, I found out WW went to see the OP after 6 weeks of NC. I confronted her with it and she first denies the contacts ever happen and saying it’s my insecurity that dreams up the encounters. After confronted her with the evidences she confessed.

She told me she went to his apartment at 6 o’clock in the morning on her way to work because she broke down emotionally; she knocks and cry pathetically while waking up some of his neighbors. He didn’t open the door at first but finally let her in because she’s disturbing the neighbors. They talked and he encouraged her to work at fixing the marriage. Because of her emotional state, he drove her then picked her up from work. The next day, she made up an excuse about getting supports to not get on Cholesterol medication just to see him but decided that it will be her last (I heard that one before).

She said she hates her life and want to do something about it. I don’t know what that mean exactly, whether to work on the marriage or try to get a friendly divorce which I told her will never going to be friendly. She wants us to go back to our MC but only if I promised that I wouldn’t go confronting the OP, she said it really not his fault that they broke NC. I told her I wouldn’t confront him but it is her choice to go to the MC and confronting the OP is not a condition for me. I don’t want to force her to see our MC. I have to see her demeanors and what her intentions are when we see the MC.

Comments?

there are no consequences for her bad behavior, so if I were you I would expect it to continue.

you have been unwilling to follow the program, so I'm not sure how we can help.

Plan A is not supposed to continue forever or in the face on ongoing contact.

I would say its time for her to leave and implement a VERY strict Plan B. And she won't be allowed to return home until she has DEMONSTRATED long term changes.

Agree with Lexxy. She knows she can have her cake and eat it too. You are not doing her, your marriage or your children any favors by allowing this abortion to continue unabated. Plan A is not supposed to be a way of life.

Either she agrees to write a NC letter and abides by your conditions to prevent further contact from occurring in her moments of weakness, or you boot her @ss out and go down the legal separation route.

Jim, hasn't she already agreed to nc numerous times?

I don't think she's written a NC letter or agreed to be open and honest. I don't think she's ever agreed to his Plan B letter conditions. He needs to sit down and think about every condition he wants met, and if she doesn't agree to them all, then it's back to plan B.

Another vote for Plan B.

Plan B and exposure are like nuclear holocaust to affairs. They wipe out almost all of them.

He needs to just move into Plan B. It is clear by her actions that she will not end contact right now so he needs to go by her ACTIONS, not on any words she says to him. She already knows that nc is a key condition for recovery and she is unwilling to do so. If plan A doesn't work to effect seperation, then plan B is the next step.

I know she won't agree to it. I just wanted to give her the opportunity to agree to his plan B conditions, and have a "no" on the record. He's going to plan B either way.

Its redundant. She has promised no contact and broken it more times than we can count. We don't need one more "official" breaking of no-contact....

Just get on with it.

Her behavior is entrenched. She's been involved in this affair for 3 years, and you've been enabling it for a year and a half. You can tell by her actions she has absolutely no intention of stopping.

The only thing that is going to stop this affair is for Mike to remove himself from the triangle -- completely.

When her affair implodes, then she needs to demonstrate transparency and decent behavior for MONTHS before Mike considers recovery.

Get into the drivers seat Mike.

Jim, I understand what you are saying, but that is not how Plan B is implemented. We go into Plan B when we know that contact has not ended. She has been given multiple opportunities to end contact and her actions clearly say she is not willing to do that. Her actions speak louder than any words she could say. We already know she will lie and contact the OM anyway, so her words are meaningless.

I don’t have a problem with going to Plan B because I was there already and I could handle it but explain to me how I implement Plan B when she wouldn’t leave the house because she knows the law is on her side. Believe me I would go into plan B if I could, I had told her many times to leave the house if she wants to continue her contacts. I told her I want her but I don’t need her in my life. She told me that half the house belongs to her and if I lock her out, she’ll call the cops. On separate occasions I had thrown her physically out of the house; thrown her cloths out the door (she took pictures of the mess) but with her close to calling the cops, I let her back in. My lawyer has already told me I’m walking a tight rope with some of my actions and it would hurt me if we end up in a DV.

The only way for me to get into Plan B is to leave the house which is not advisable by this forum and I will not do it.

I just don’t know how to get there, please advise me how to proceed.

Plan D? Legal Separation? What does your attorney advise you should do with a WW who won't stop her affair?

Certainly, no one should expect you to sit back and watch her continue with OM while still living in the same house.

I guess if it were me, I'd go for plan D at this point since neither plan A or plan B has worked.

Who

You get a legal separation. If your state doesn't have LSA, then you file for D.

No LSA in my state of NJ. If I go Plan D, am I not playing right into her hands? This is what she been asking for the last six months. My lawyer has told me not to file for DV unless I absolutely want it.

I’m not sure I’m ready for Plan D; here is my scenario that my lawyer outlined that most likely will happen; I file for a D which she wants; as part of pre-D settlement,

1. The husband, me leave the house since the court would not remove her if she doesn’t wants to go and not harmful to the kids. This is Plan D with Plan B, and I get 50% access at best (could be less like every other weekend and one weekday every other week) to my children. She’ll get child support and temporary alimony until the D is final in six months, I could delay it for another six months to 9 months at best.
2. If we can stay in the house together during the D process, I have 100% access to my children but I could still end up paying her for child support and temporary alimony but less than scenario 1.

What am I gaining other than my sanity to go on Plan D? I do want to save my marriage.

I agree with you, and I'm usually as hard core as they come......BUT, I would consult with the Harley's first. Here is my line of reasoning. It seems to me that OM doesn't want to be with his WW anymore and only broke contact out of pity and guilt. IMO, their affair is done to him. Dr. Harley is much more tolerant of failure to meet PBL conditions than anyone here. I truly don't think that Mike's WW will ever file for D. I also think that if Mike files for D, he will be divorced and will not recover his marriage, and his WW will go back to OM or find another OM. Is that what he wants? I thought that he wanted to keep his family together for his children. I am not the expert, and I think that his situation is much more complicated than some others, and just a simple, "go to plan B" may not be the most prudent advice.

So in summary, I agree with the concept of plan B, but I would consult with the Harleys before taking that next step.

Mike, what I would do is find an attorney that would file for divorce and keep me in my house. The greatest risk to your marriage right now is the status quo. Her affair is such a lovebuster, that you will eventually grow to HATE her. Once that happens, the marriage is over, because it almost impossible to bring a BS back once he hates the WS.

That is, if you don't have a nervous breakdown from living like this.

But, hey if you can live like that, then live like that. No one ever said it would be easy to get a WS out, but if the price is too high for you, then you have to learn to live in an open marriage where you are Man #2 in her harem.

You do have to accept that you CANNOT change her. You have to accept that you can't change her and that you have done everything you can.

Mike,

I agree with Mel here. I'm not quite sure why if you divorce while living in the same house that you would have to pay child support and alimony. Frankly, I am even wondering about the alimony part for a WS?

I understand that division of assets is not affected by infidelity, but I understood that in most instances, wayward spouses were more often than not unable to get alimony.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see much hope that she will change. She doesn't have any desire to and no reason to either.

I see lots of carrot, but no stick in this arrangement. The current situation can't be a very good one for your kids either.

Who

Dr. Harley is VERY intolerant of PBL failure. SOMETIMES STEVE Harley, HIS SON, is more tolerant with people who are *UNDER HIS CARE* and LESS TOLERANT with others. It depends on the situation.

However, the key here is *UNDER HIS CARE.* If license is going to be taken, it should be left to a professional who knows what he is doing. We do not have that license and should not take it. Just because Steve Harley cuts corners in some cases, does not mean that is appropriate here.

I agree w/ you ML, but I just feel that Mike is stuck between a rock and a hard place, and if his stated goal is to recover his marriage, I don't know what to tell him to obtain that goal. Certainly, going to plan B and filing for D from his wife would probably be theraputic for him. Some marriages can't be saved. I hope this isn't one of them, but his wife is a mess and I don't know if all our best advice can pull this one out. I just don't want Mike to be under the impression, "if you do X, this will fix your marriage." There are certain situation where you just run out of ideas, and I'm out of ideas.