Mike,

You do know that MC doesn't work while she is still living in affairland.

You are putting alot of hope into a WW who will going running to the OM on a moments notice. He knows she is needy and is clinging to him and it has completely put him off.

You are being about as firm as jello with your WW and it has and still is putting her off. See the similarity.

As Bob Pure has asked ... what would you do if you weren't afraid?

Jim,



Yes, But how long ago did he talk to SH. The advice given here in the early days following D-day does have an expiration date. I don't know that SH has ever advised any BS to remain in plan A for years, and years, and years ...

He hasn't changed his strategy, you know, the one that hasn't been working for two years.

Who

Star, if I file, it would be for adultery not no fault. I just want to point it out to you that there is no legal separation in NJ. You file for DV even if it is for legal separation. Adultery is not grounds to support: removal WW from the house, child custody, CS or alimony. Believe me, I went thru all this with two lawyers separately.

I hear you Jim....and I too think it's important to remember that these concepts cannot be applied generally to all marital situations. I agree with the points you've raised about how his situation has changed and how this may not be the time for Plan B. Men have a decided disadvantage in custody issues. Also, none of us have to live mike's life. I offered him the legal information just to expand his options when he decides he's ready to try something else.

Mark, NJ is so tolerance to adultery that it's not funny. I have already went thru 6 consultation with two lawyers; 2 with one and 4 with the other. Both are saying the same thing. I consulted with SH back in 10/07 I think.

I think Jim's assessment is right on with WW and my situation. She'll break NC but it will become less frequent until they finally end. At least this is my hope. I won't settle seeing my kids less than 100 percent of the time.

WW is very stubborn; you could see that from her actions; kicking and screaming 6 o’clock in the morning so she could get her fix. It was like that when we first dated, she will do anything to get the one she love/wants. I know if I back her in the corner by filing DV, she will go thru with it doesn’t matter what the consequences are. That’s the reason why I know once I file, we’ll end in a divorce and breakup our family.

Actually, the latest Plan A has been 10 months since 5/07 not years and years.

But, Mike, you registered before I did...

My W broke NC a few times as well. It sucked...but if she were to start going to visit OM again, she'd come home to new locks on the door and her stuff in storage.

You might simply outlast OM and end up with her home with you and OM gone for good.

Just so you know, that isn't likely to stop another OM from showing up in the future.

Mike, you were doing Plan A back in April 2006 when she told you she "needed space." Even so, do you really imagine that doing MORE Plan A is the answer? If she has not seen your best side BY NOW, then I would suggest she never will.

I agree with Mark, she has no motivation to NOT have affairs because there are never consequences.

starfish hit the nail on the head: "when he decides he's ready to try something else." That is what it comes down to and when he is ready to do something, he will do it. As it is now, he is happy with the status quo. Until he decides the status quo is painful enough to make changes, there is no use in beating our head against the wall.

Mel<---going to find another wall to beat her head against... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mark, I have done those things you mentioned; I physically throw her out of the house without her keys; I throw half of her cloths out the door.

Here is what I’m committed myself to do: The next contact, OP will be visited, the door locks will be changed and more exposure. I’ll do them without talking to her first. I have never said it's going to be status quo, just not this one because of what I hear and see. If the contact again continues, DV will be file. This is not what most of you want but this is my life and my family will have to live with the consequences.

WW just called to let me know how awful today is being Valentine’s Day, the last one was amazing to her and this one she’ll treated like any other Thursday. Without me asking, she gave me her schedule and her whereabouts so she is trying. She has not report to me without asking before.

Mike,

I'm not saying simply kick her a$$ to the curb...

OK. She's feeling bad toady because it is Valentine's Day. Big opportunity here for you if you do it right.

You tell her that future Valentine's Days can be wonderful and so full of memories of all that is right with your marriage...Or they can be a reminder of her throwing it all away for a guy who doesn't want her, never really did and was nothing more that a fantasy to start with.

Then...

Step away from the alien...Change the subject, do something else, leave the room, leave the house, leave the state...Just don't discuss it with her. You don't vent and LB, you just state your truth and the facts as you see them...then you don't take anything from her at all in return...Nothing...Nada...Zip...Zilch...Zero...Nichts...

And if she has contact with him again, you might not be able to force her to leave...But I would ask her to leave. She might take you up on the offer, at least then you'd know she isn't really serious about recovery.

Throwing her out, tossing her stuff out of the house...those are LOVE BUSTERS, Mike. That's not what I'm referring to. When I said I'd change the locks, I meant that if my wife broke NC today, she'd be homeless, unless OM wanted to take her in (would put a big strain on his fun, BTW). The key to that strategy being any good is that she knows that to be the case...and believes it.

She also knows that there will never be another recovery from an affair.

Mark,

I just told her I know how she is feeling today and I understand and left her alone. No LB here for sure.

I have told her she needs to leave every time she broke N/C, like I said earlier, I was in Plan B last year and I don’t have a problem doing it again. She has not taken my offers to leave the house yet, and I’m not going to hold my breath either.

Changing the locks is LB too. Changing the locks is very easy for me; I have smart locks on my doors which you could key in seconds with any keys. The problem is once I rekey the locks, she’ll call the cops and I’ll be force to open it. If I don’t, I could be arrested. Even if I do open it, a police report will be written that I change the locks and bar her from entering. This record will affect my DV (ie custody, etc…) later. My lawyers and I have played this all out already and they’re strongly against it due to the damage it will have on custody. Changing the locks does not make WW homeless; I wish it is that easy. What she knows is that the law is on her side and there is nothing I could do to remove her if she doesn’t want to go.

Mike,

Maybe I am missing something here but it seems like you believe that there is nothing that you can do to better this situation for you and your children. Don't think for one single second that this situation is any better for them than a divorce with shared custody.

The very strong message that they are getting is that it is OK to be unfaithful, and their Dad is too much of a coward to insist on fidelity in his marriage.

I'm simply not getting the impression that you honestly have a plan for ending the affair and recovering your marriage. From what I have read here, it sure looks like your WW has no intention of maintaining NC. My guess is that OM is sick and tired of her and she is holding on to hope that he will someday want her back again.

For her, NC might be her attempt to have OM miss her and thus take her back.

You say that the next time NC is broken, you will go see OM. What good will that actually do since it is your WW who is pursuing him even tho he considers the affair over.

Do you even know what it will take for you to actually either go to plan B or plan D?

This may sound mean, but IMHO part of the problem here is that I don't think your WW has any respect for you because she doesn't just believe that you won't do anything about her infidelity, she knows you won't.

I hope I'm wrong, but I see little hope for recovery unless you raise the bar off the ground.

Who

I said:You said:Do you see the difference in these two? One is proactive and designed for you to score points in your favor. The other maintains the status quo and avoids making anything worse, though offering no hope for either of you for the future.

You can't remain in penalty kill mode any longer. You aren't winning, the clock is running out and it's time to score some points. Plan A doesn't have to mean being a doormat.

And being "tough" isn't what I'm talking about here.

It isn't enough to avoid love busters, you have to fill her love bank as well and as long as she is holding onto the hope of the fantasy with OM, she isn't taking deposits from you. You have to drop things on her that can penetrate the fog for those lucide moments that do come and hope that she remembers them when the fog lifts even just for a few seconds at a time.

You can't just not make her mad at you, you have to make her want to be with you instead of dogfaced OM. How can you do that? You need to have a plan, not simply a way of coping...

And I can tell you from experience, simply out lasting the OM and ending up as the default solution to her problem when all is said and done will make you feel like a winner, but it will only last until she meets the next OM and decides you aren't doing it for her. The only way that idea works is if you're in Plan B already and have established hoops for the WS to jump through in order to come back to you. Which is why a PBL is so important, it says all you intend to say up front.

My fear for you, Mike, is that you aren't saying anything to upset her, but you aren't saying anything to establish your boundaries either. You tell her you understand that she feels bad, but miss the opportunity to tell her that it feels even worse for you and more to the point, you skip telling her how it can feel better in the future. That is what I mean by having a plan.

Mike-

Listen to Mark - he is giving some good pointers on plan A. I understand your dilemma. Plan D at best for most men is 50/50 in addition alimony and CS.

I swear its getting to the point that marriage should be avoided by men at all costs. If either of my sons comes to me saying he wants to get married, I would point him here first for marriage counseling after I ask why would he want to do it.

Tell them to get a pre-nup.

I confronted the OP over the weekend and told him not to open the door the next time she try the same thing. I ask that he give me a call the next time as well; don't know if he would or wouldn't. He also said that he hates himself and doesn't want to have any thing to do with this any longer and will try everything to get out of this situation. He told me he is very sorry and we departed.

That is good news. It seems like OM is completely over your WW. Once she finally gets that through her head (like the next time she tries it and he doesn't let her in but calls you instead), maybe your marriage can finally take a step in the right direction.

WW email me today and she has the MC scheduled in two weeks. Apparently it's the first opening on WW's day off. Let see how it goes.

Over the weekend, I left home and told her that it's over as I need to remove myself from her. She asked me if I'm giving up on the kids and I told her I would never give up my kids; it's she that I'm remove myself from. She didn't stop me nor try to call me; I stay at my parents for the night. I returned the next day; she told one of her best friend (she didn't know I know she called) that she was relief that's it's finally coming to an end. Her friend told me if I go DV, she's more likely takes me up on it. Her BF is on my side and she wouldn't lie. I really do not think Plan DV then Plan B is the way to go right now.

ALL WS get happy w/ Plan B....at FIRST.

But, LATER, they all try to get the BS to end it.

~ Marsh

MM,

I agree with you. The only way I could Plan B is for me to leave the house; this is not going to happen at least not right now.