My H and I are found MB last summer and found it quite helpful. We started counseling and things started heading in the right direction. The counselor suggested he find a new job, which he did, but then we lost insurance for 3 months, so no counseling now for 5 months. We are right back where we were but this is our last chance. We lack the ability to communicate with each other and hold so many resentments and insecurities towards each other that neither one of us wants to take the first step to show that we still want our marriage.

I have honesty issues. I fear his reactions to anything negative or mistakes i've made (mostly where money is concerned). So by lying or lying by ommission I try to control the outcome. I get that now. I knew I had control issues but didn't realize how they all work in unison and cause many other problems. He has serious trust issues, some i've earned, some I haven't.
Life blew up a week ago and I told him to leave. He did, gladly. In his words, "He felt nothing, no pain, just relief". I wanted separation but his interpretation is that we were done, we even told the kids he was moving out. I grew so angry at his lack of being upset about the situation that I broke every Marriage Builders rule and threw out every love buster I could. After dealing with one of my daughters crying about having to talk to him on the phone to tell him goodnight I got so mad I called him and asked him how this was so easy for him. He told me a few things that opened my eyes to some issues that I didn't realize he had with me that was contributing to our problems. Through what he was saying it made me ask if he was 100% done. He answered quickly and rationally, yes. I got off the phone immediately and had a complete meltdown. I called my girlfriend and let it out for the first time since the separation. I sent him an email, that was a lot more rational then I had been in previous ones. I had a few things to say. He responded the next morning and then I called him to talk rationally and civially. We cleared the air on a lot of things.

I let him have all the kids our first weekend apart. I wanted them to know that even though daddy wasn't here he was still going to be a huge part of thier life. Even my daughter from a previous marriage that he is very close with. I needed the time alone and time away from the kids (another one of our issues).

We have continued talking and have decided to give it one more shot. We both have wants, needs, and demands. As of right now neither one of us have unreasonable ones. We are going to stay separated until we can make sure this is going to work. We're not putting the kids through this again.

But here is where i'm at now. I have been upset about something that he told me. When he was confiding in the girls at his office they thought it would be a good idea to set him up with someone else. When he saw that I didn't take that very well he tried to downplay it. I am extremely upset with this. The people he has chosen to confide in are contributing by trying to get someone new in his life. I find that to be so cold and heartless and that is not who I want my husband, who I still love with all my heart, getting advice from.

I tried to talk to him about this last night. I admit I started the conversation off badly. He mentioned going out to lunch with a couple of people from the office, one being one of the girls that was willing to set him up with someone else. then add the fact that I know he thinks the waitress they always have is good looking. It has never bothered me to know he thinks people are good looking but add this other stuff onto it, I reacted. I asked if she had tried to hook them up. He got pissed. I wasn't meaning to attack him, but I realize I did give that impression. A little while later I asked if we could clear the air since you could cut the tension with a knife. I apologized for how I approached it and said it is a situation that is really effecting me and causing problems with me. He thanked me for apologizing but then said what else is there to talk about. I didn't know what to say. Hadn't I made it clear that this is a problem for me right now. How am I supposed to feel confortable talking about my feelings with him if they aren't important to him. I let my perception of his reactions to things control how I handle them....but he just proved me right. I can't. Now I also feel like he still looking for a reason to end it completely. Everytime I faulter back to one of my old habits, not the honesty one because we agreed that has to be an immediate change, and let my fears take control of me that he is ready to say he's done. He has admitted that he has had those thoughts.

I do not want to feel like it doesn't matter what I do, he is already done. I am willing to give it everything i've got, if he is too. If not, it's done. I will not live with someone who can't love me in spite of my faults and understand forgivness for not being perfect. I don't expect him to change overnight. Right now seeing the faults and contributors he has to our problems is enough for me. A promise of hope. I still have the fear of doing the wrong thing. It is eating me up inside.

How do you know when to say it's over? I love him, but we can't communicate and work as a team. I'm still hurting over his obvious signs of finality.

Welcome back, H4C! Good to see you again...September seems a long time ago since your last post...

Here's the link to you and Strengthman's first thread: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post3268091

That's to help me not repeat myself.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Oh, you know I'm gonna do that...least, I know I'm gonna do that.

Sounds like you guys are still missing healthy communication skills. Wanna learn them? They help in our marriages, our parenting, our business (I re-read your daycare business), with our FOO (family of origin) and friends...so they are worth developing, honing and making our habit.

You've just got some bad habit communication skills.

I believe in both of you. Hasn't changed. I know you are both capable, loving people.

I have an idea, though...I noticed that Strengthman originally posted in the Resolving Conflict forum...and I think you've posted or made threads in the Other Topics, too...all of these are really out of the traffic flow on MB...so I'm suggesting you copy and paste your post from today to a new thread in the Emotional Needs forum...it has the second highest traffic and I know the posters there are terrific.

More visibility, more help. Would you consider doing that? Communication is an EN...and they know and actively work on honing their skills.

As for this post...I see you as experiencing EXACTLY what brought your DH to MB in the first place...you fear others having undue influence on him to the detriment of your marriage.

Him venting to his coworkers...them thinking they are handing him a fix about setting him up on dates...really, replacing his heartache (equalling it to replacing you) as a quick solution for the coworker they care about.

Not friends of his marriage, are they?

Nor were yours, really...they wanted you happy at all costs...venting does that...which is why being friends with couples...where your same girlfriend walks in with her husband and faces the man (your husband) knowing she's dumped on him...(I know at times you defended him)...that's accountability. See, that's why friends of the marriage are what we go for...and YOU being a friend of their marriage is the same boundary...

Healthy...not bad, wrong or evil...destructive, yes. Seems like your issues remain and you've nailed the primary one...which affects the rest...communication. How about putting your full focus on that first?

You're faced with losing your marriage...it's crisis time...so I'm going to ask you if you got the books from the library over these past eight months...what you've been reading, studying, learning...because right now, you're at the point of seeing clearly he has the power to end your marriage...and I think that got thoroughly through to you.

Before, it was "why are you still here then?"...you leaving...now, he left. He's gone. You're separated. That's really different.

Choose hope...choose to know you can make saving your marriage your goal...you alone...and know you can do it.

YOU can choose to communicate well...you can choose to act like the partner you've wanted to be all your life...you can even thrive...all within your control.

I hope you'll make the move to the EN forum...I'll follow you (stalker is my middle name) if you want...you aren't alone. The changes (permissions) you make in yourself, the actions to choose to take matter. All of you matters.

LA

Do you have insurance now? Then get an appointment for next week! IMO, it is the only way you will be able to get through this - learning how to communicate and leaving all your fears and issues 'at home.'

I don't have a whole lot of advice for you, but want to thank you for your story, because it's like getting a view into the mind of the other side of my situation. The details are different, of course. But, like your H, I feel like I'm in a marriage that is destined to be done. As my W puts it, I have "one foot out the door" and refuse to recommit. Perhaps I can shed some light for you on his thought process.

For me, it's a matter of emotional risk mitigation. You hear investors talk about diversifying their portfolio? As a general rule, it's good to avoid "putting all your eggs in one basket." In marriage, you're actually supposed to. You're supposed to invest yourself emotionally entirely in each other, "forsaking all others." That's all well and good. But, once you've been severely hurt or disappointed by your spouse, you get to the point where you just don't see the point in investing your emotions into them. From the male perspective, one of the things that scares us the most is being a "chump" or "fool." Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me, or so the saying goes. Why should I set myself up to be disappointed again, especially when the feelings of love are gone?

That's the core problem. When love is gone, guys fall back on their default measuring sticks of logic, reason, and risk analysis. The question becomes; what reason do I have to work on this? Why should I get my hopes up that things will improve given this track record? What would any objective and rational person do in this situation? And that's a dangerous way of thinking for a marriage, because love is inherently irrational, and must be that way to survive. You have to give when it makes no sense to give. And when people fall out of love, they don't see the point in giving anymore.

If your husband feels anything like me, he wants to see some assurance, some kind of evidence that things aren't just going to cycle through the same-old pattern with you two. He looks at the definition of insanity and wonders why he should keep trying the same thing when he keeps getting the same results.

I'm not saying any of this to upset you or take his side. I have no idea what the full details of your situation is. I'm just trying to give you a look inside his head. For a guy, the loss of love can easily spell the end of a marriage, because rational men would never get married. I don't mean that as a slight or insult. I mean that love is what draws us together as couples, and love alone. There is no rational process there. So when love is gone, there is nothing to justify the sacrifices you make to stay together.

It's a tough situation, because there is no answer to why you would want to love someone. It's not a choice. You either do or you don't. But it is affected by behavior, which is what MB speaks to. The problem is finding the motivation to change your behavior when you don't love anymore.