MEDC...

No, it for sure isn't...Good question though...

He will tell you that he has never had "triggers" of any kind...

Mrs. W

.I needed to get this out, but most of all, I really need for Mr. W to GET it...It IS important...

Who knows what someone else is thinking ... MrW seems like a great guy, possibly he experienced something similar to my reaction to VD, even though I really don't know exactly what it was that I experienced.

MrsW,

You and MrW are two of my favorite people here at MB, and while I can't explain what MrW is/was thinking, I can share an experience/feeling that I encountered yesterday.

I stopped off at our local Hallmark store yesterday on my lunch hour to pick up FogFree a card. We never were big Valentine's Day people, but we always get each other a card, and I try to find one that was appropriate.

Anyway, I was in kind of a "funk" yesterday, some of it had to do with a personal business matter that was becoming more difficult than was necessary, but there was something else that I just couldn't put my finger on ... and still can't for that matter.

While at the Hallmark store, I started reading through the VD cards, and the "funk" got worse. It's like someone else pointed out, its hard to find a card that doesn't just "gush" with stuff that is no longer appropriate in our situations. I ended up getting a rather generic card and wrote my own message, which acknowledged my recommitment to her, but admittedly also got a little negative when I went into how much I still hurt over having to be in this situation.

When FogFree read the card, you could tell she was touched by the underlying message, but I also sensed a great deal of guilt from her for us having to endure this "fracture" in an otherwise very good M. There just seemed to be a "cloud" over us on this VD.

We have been doing very well, and I'd venture to say that we're further along in our recovery than 90+% of the others here in our same situation, but for some reason, yesterday just put me into this "funk" that I just couldn't shake.

Who knows what someone else is thinking ... MrW seems like a great guy, possibly he experienced something similar to my reaction to VD, even though I really don't know exactly what it was that I experienced.

Hmm.. sounds like Mr. W is suffering from an episode of DumbHusbanditis, with all those excuses and no apologies. Sigh - we call get it from time to time. Go easy on him - we know he loves you to bits, and I think you know that too <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

For both of us, it just seems like the gifts and actions leave a greater impression on both giver and receiver when the giver is giving them because they want to do so, not because they think it's something expected of them.

Hmmm...I'm not sure how to NOT expect for him to meet my EN for Affection...That is how Dr. Harley categorizes gift giving on occasions...Affection is my number #3 need...It is real important to me...I've outlined that over the years ad nauseam...If I shut up about it, that implies that I'm okay with how he meets this particular need, yanno?

Mrs Wondering, im new to MB but in my short time here I have found you and Mr. wondering to be a great source of hope and wisdom. I seek out your posts wherever i can find them so i hope you will forgive Mr W's VD gaffe. -good to know even he makes mistakes on occasion.

the point of my barge in is i would like to know more of your story. how long did the A last? did it end during plan A or did it go to plan B etc. Im sure you have told the full story before and if you can point me to a link i would be greatful. And i will continue to follow both your posts.

Hmmm...our story...yeah, that's an easy post...LOL...I'll sure give it a shot, albeit abbreviated...

K, let's see, we had both withdrawn in the marriage...Both very ripe for an affair due to that...We had just quit putting in effort...Our dd was 5 at the time and attending school, so I sure had a less involved role as a SAHM...My baby was gone most of the day, I had lots of new free time on my hands which I chose not to put to good use-I sure wasn't making our home environment a pleasant one, and Mr. W was a workaholic, and ya know, who wants to come home when things aren't very nice? He would leave the house in the morning @ around 7:45am and wouldn't return most nights til 12:00 or 1:00am...By the weekend I was burned out of being by myself with our dd from the time she got out of school til the time she went to bed...So I withdrew more and stayed in our bedroom on the computer or watching tv and left Mr. W to entertain our dd...

Conversation at this point (usually our strong suit) was dead...What did we have to talk about but how annoyed we were with each other? For me, without conversation I could not connect...SF is a top need of Mr. W's and how he connects with me...I didn't buy that at the time and thought he only wanted sex for sex's sake...Now I see how wrong I was in my attitude about sex (I have MB to thank for that)...Admiration is a top need of mine, but dang I wasn't doing anything very admirable back then, so how in the heck could Mr. W meet that need really?

Okay, so in the middle of all this terrible withdrawal, I get an email from my ex high school/college bf through classmates.com...We had dated off and on for nine years back in the day-Good Lord, could BIG RED DANGER FLAG been all over that or what??? Truth was, I was flattered as all get out by that email (at the time I was in the midst of a very dark depression)...I even called and told Mr. W about it-told him how excited that I was that this guy had gone so far as to contact me...DUH...Mr. W, being a liberal kind of guy at the time thought nothing of it, nor did I really because afterall, I was one of those folks that said "I WOULD NEVER CHEAT"...When you think that way, moving boundaries is no sweat, yanno? So I emailed him back...found out that he had been divorced since October of 2004 (this was in Feb of 2005) Phone numbers were exchanged-at first the conversations were okay, but quickly turned to "remember whens"...At that point OM noticed that I was not my usual perky self and said as much...that opened the floodgates and the conversations turned to "what ifs"...the emails and phone calls stepped up, and out came the text messages...Btw, this was a long distance situation...Soon we made plans to get together when my dd and I were going home for winter break at the end of March...The rest you can probably guess...The relationship went physical, which crazily enough didn't take a big jump...I had a past sexual history with OM and of course our recent communications had stripped away all boundaries...

I came home VERY detached from Mr. W as you might imagine...Mr. W got real suspicious, found a hotel receipt, new lingerie and the final straw, a very graphic text message...Dday was in April 2005...I was completely addicted to OM and the affair at this point and told Mr. W, "I can't not do this" (nice double negative) I made plans to leave for two weeks to stay in a hotel and see OM (May 2005)...This was before Mr. W found MB, so he didn't know about exposure (edited to add: Mr. W found MB while I was in Atlanta-at the time he didn't think exposure was for him-yikes! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />)...I went and continued the affair...Left Mr. W alone with our DD who was REALLY SICK the morning I set out-that kills me to think about now...I was just as bad, if not worse, than any WS that you read about here...ugh...

My mom, of course, knew something was up as I was not choosing to stay with my parents when I came into town...I just told her that I needed "space" to think about all the bad stuff in our marriage (typical battlecry of the WS)...My mom stayed on top of me about this...Finally after returning from being with OM, I broke down and exposed myself to my mom...That was all she wrote...My mom was PISSED, understandably...She loves Mr. W and of course wanted the best for our dd...She lent Mr. W her full support...They conspired and since she had known OM from childhood, she called him and threatened him with all sorts of believable stuff-and he KNEW she would make good on those threats (Not the MB way to threaten, btw-forewarned is forearmed-we were very lucky that this worked-in most situations it would have backfired-my mom happened to KNOW that OM would be in BIG trouble if his parents found out and that worked in our favor thankfully)...He was a coward like most all OMs are...He dumped me the next day without telling me why, as that had been one of my mom's stipulations...I went nuts-by the book for a WS...Told Mr. W that I wanted to separate, thinking I could persuade OM if I was "single"...I still laugh at Mr. W's simple answer to that worked on me...He just said "NO"...calmly and securely, "NO"...Don't know why, but that baffled me and I shut up and started withdrawal...Which was a nightmare...BUT...Mr. W was the most amazing Plan Aer in the world...He let me grieve...listened to REALLY horrible things that I said and just did a lot of nodding and understanding...Went into high gear of doing fun social things with me (read: we partied like rock stars-see that was how our courtship began years ago and he took us back to that time-no relationship talks unless I initiated)...

I was really miserable in withdrawal-self esteem crushed...By this time Mr. W had started reading MB regularly and had purchased Surviving An Affair and another ebook...He left those things lying around the house and I was in so much despair that I picked up both and began reading...He also sent me a link to the forums here and I began reading...Getting really involved in certain threads and getting mad at the WSs talked about in them-still didn't identify that that was ME in those stories really...I gradually became aware...Eventually I registered and posted here first...Wanting to know if my feelings for Mr. W would ever return...I honestly didn't think they could (I was VERY wrong)...I was told in essence to "fake it til ya make it" and that is how the whole recovery process for us began...Oh and I posted some seriously foggy stuff here in the beginning...Mr. W even registered under a different name and posted to me...We still laugh about the fact that I immediately had a connection with that poster...I thought he was darn smart and really funny...Goes to show that I was attracted to Mr. W even when I thought I wasn't...

At the time Mr. W did tell me that he had only one boundary and that was that he refused to be in a loveless marriage...Unbeknownst to me, he had resided himself to the fact that he would go through the summer with me and have as much fun or pleasure as I would allow...thinking that it could be the last time that we had together as an intact family...By the end of the summer had things not started looking up, he intended to put our house on the market and take our dd and move to his parents home.(they only live there in the summer) By the grace of God I began to get it and things started looking up...

For us, MB (the forums, the books and the weekend seminar) has been our saving grace...I didn't find out that my mom and Mr. W had anything to do with OM dumping me for more than a year after the affair ended...I can't tell you how grateful and in awe of them that I am for saving me and our family from, well, ME...

Today we are very happy together and continue to implement MB principles in our marriage...I could not ask for any more blessings than I have been granted...I didn't deserve them, that's for sure, but I am more grateful than I have words to say...

Gee Try, I'm not sure that this long diatribe was what you were looking for...I know that I've missed things, but I tried my best to give you a clear picture of what transpired...Please feel free to ask me specifics and I will provide you anything that I can...

Mrs. W

Mrs. W...I am one of your biggest fans here..I hope you can see that based on my posts to and about you. I am just wondering if it is fair to bring this stuff up on the forum. I'm not saying it isn't...that is up to you and Mr. W..but I know I wouldn't care for it. Just a thought.

Another thought is that VD is a greeting card company hyped holiday. If it means a lot to you, I say celebrate the day. But why does it mean a lot? Does it really matter to you that others are getting flowers and you are getting nothing? What's wrong with waiting for the dinner in ATL? I can see where he would have felt the "celebration of VD would be then.

Now as far as his being a blockhead in the gift giving arena, I would say I am surprised based on how thoughtful he is in other areas of your marriage. Instead of insensitive, he may just be totally clueless. If he has a sister(s) perhaps they can lend a hand in that area.

I've found that the most common Love Busters in marriage fall into six categories: Selfish Demands, Disrespectful Judgments, Angry Outbursts, Annoying Habits, Independent Behavior and Dishonesty

The first three of these Love Busters are instinctive, yet thoughtless, ways to try to get what you want from each other. When a request doesn't work, a spouse will often revert to a demand ("I don't care how you feel -- do it or else!"). If that doesn't get the job done, a spouse will try disrespectful judgments ("If you had any sense, and were not so lazy and selfish, you would do it"). And then, when all of that fails, an angry outburst often represents the last ditch effort ("I'll see to it that you regret not having done it").

Of course, demands, disrespect and anger don't really get the job done. You generally don't do things for your spouse because of these Love Busters, you do them out of care and consideration. If your spouse is demanding, disrespectful and angry, you tend to be less caring and considerate, leading you to do less for your spouse. Instead of giving your spouse what he or she needs, demands, disrespect and anger cause you to resist. I want you to have what you need in your marriage, but demands, disrespect and anger will not get it for you. They will prevent you from having what you want if you revert to these destructive instincts.

WOW! That poem is truly "Amazin!" Totally beautiful!!

Amazin WOW! is right! WAY TO GO!!!!

From my perspective, it isn't WHAT you want or the validity of your desire for gifts or the acknowledgment of Valentine's Day that is the problem. It is the way you are going about trying to get this need met.

Mr. W chose to ignore Valentine's Day...