What is everyone doing for their W/FWS's for Valentines Day?

In an effort to spotlight some of the positive things we BS's are doing, I thought I'd check in and see what folks are doing for their W/ FW's for Valentines day.

My WW has told me a few times "don't get me anything for Valentines".
I think she feels really guilty and undeserving which is arguably the case. However, in keeping with the plan of doing what the good, romantic, "how could she possibly NOT love me" husband, I can't let this opportunity go by. Plus I do truly love her and want to do something nice.

Anyway, I had a bit of trouble deciding what to do. Didn't want to go over the top. Didn't want to be completely lame. I remember around Christmastime, some folks were posting about what to get their Wayward spouse for a gift, and one thing that stuck out to me was the idea of not getting something that the OP could benefit from. Seemed like a good idea then and though we're at a month and a half NC, still seems to make sense. So....
I got her a small bouquet of mixed flowers (not roses), a romantic card (boy was it tough to find a "wife" card that had a romantic message that wasn't about how wonderful EVRYTHING is about her...) This might sound lame to some of you, but she's fairly domestic (eg for a long time she told me she wanted a vacuum cleaner for Christmas, I felt like giving her something that equals work for her isn't a great gift...)
Anyway, for a long time she's talked about getting a covered cake tray, so I got one of those too.
So tonight, I pick up our 2 1/2 yo son at her night class, and we're going to bake and decorate a Happy Valentines Day cake together and have it displayed on her new cake dome for when she gets home along with the card and flowers. I'll also do a little craft thing and have the boy make her a valentine as well.
So, something simple, thoughtful, and the gift is something I know she wants.
Whaddya think?
What are other people doing?

I asked my FWH not to buy me flowers. For me flowers always are a mixed blessing gift as we have 5 cats who try to eat them and end up knocking over the vase resulting in in a mess to clean up. Also, I've been sick for two weeks so going out for dinner is a no-go. Darling FWH just called to let me know he was picking up loads of Chinese take-out from our favorite place.

For him, I am going with a nice card (not too gushy) and a lazer pointer which is something he has been wanting.

Who

[color:"red"] A mushy card
A box of his favorite sweets
and ... later on
a "Pepperband Special" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> [/color]

Hehehehe...Pep!

Well, I made a card with the boys last night for him. Today, I cut out read and pink hearts and put all of the things I love about him on them and then hid them in all kinds of places. He woke me up with a candle-lit bubble bath and a note on the mirror. It was a big heart that said "I love you." Then when I went to get my cup of coffee, there was a poem sitting on it. Then when I came downstairs, he had made a beautiful screen on my computer with another Valentine poem on it. In the other room, he put a little stuffed dog and a card. So, pretty much every room I went into today had something special. Very sweet...but he always has been!!!!

Well....I wasn't all that creative this Valentine's Day. It was an up and down week for us.

We had a MC appt together at 11:00 and was hoping we could go to lunch together afterwards but the appt was so emotional I didn't even ask him, nor did he ask me. I thought it was best to just step back and go our separate ways so we could soak it all in. Not to mention he'd already been away from the office for almost two hours at that point.

But, I did give him some chocolate covered strawberries in dark chocolate that he loves. And some chocolate covered popcorn from Peterbrookes and a card that spoke from my heart.

He out did me as always. He has always been great with gifts. Since we're separated, he snuck into the house and left me an awesome cookie bookay and the sweetest most wonderful card ever on my nightstand by the bed. It was the first thing I saw when I woke up. I am surprised our dog didn't give him away. He said he kissed me on the cheek too and I'm sorry I missed that. He was also late for work doing that for me. I felt very loved.

My 19 yr old DS gave me a heart shaped box of turtles too. I will be in hog heaven. I know what I'm having for dinner tonight. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I did get to have lunch with my 20 yr old DD today and that was awesome. I gave her some of her favorite candy in a valentine bucket with a cute heart flower card stuck inside with tissue paper. It was cute. She loved it. I made one for my son too and he ate the whole thing already. He said he started eating it for breakfast and had it finished by lunch time. He's looking a little ill now......lol.....

I'd love to make my DH a nice steak dinner tonight but I think he may be too drained to want to do that. I did invite him over just so I could hold him though if he wanted me to. I think he may need some time alone. I'll be here if he needs me.

It was a really bad day for him. He sister is in a really bad way right now and hasn't shown up for work in two days. The step mom went and checked on her this morning and she's kinda out of it. The first thing he spoke to our counselor about today was an intervention for her. I know he is beside himself on this. She is his only sibling as well.

Bless his heart. Rough morning for him hearing about his sister then the MC appt that was rough.

I'll try to show him as much love as I can with NO relationship talk.

That's our day.

Since DW and I have both been under the weather all week and I've missed all but a half day of work this week because of it, I'm going to order Italian for us for dinner. Sent her an Ecard earlier, can't seem to get enough strength to go out shopping, but we already have plans for breakfast on Saturday, the Good Lord willin' and the creeks don't rise...

Pep, Are you playing an old Beatles album during that special?

Mark

Edited to add: Soon after I posted this, DGD began to get sick and her mom, DD, took her to the hospital ER. DW met them there after work. Dinner got canceled and everyone is just now getting home and getting ready for bed.

DS also arrived home this evening, here to commiserate with those who knew or know one of the students shot this afternoon at Northern Illinois University. NIU is about one hour from here, maybe a little less, and he has many friends that attend there as well as many others that know still others there.

Pretty much turned into the Valentine's Day from he!!, but at least we're all OK tonight.

I took a picnic down to DH at his baseball training center. He got me a photo album for our many new adventures and a fuzzy white teddy bear. He's never done either....in fact, he once gave me a Valentine that said From your Wife, instead of For My Wife like he thought. For years, he gave me the first card that had a heart or was red...regardless what the verse was.

He got me 2 cards (like I got for him,) one very heartfelt and one silly that I found on the counter when I got home from our picnic....he works late every Thurs.

But the coolest thing is, for the very first time, he wanted to get our DD and DS/DIL something special, but he got stuck on the freeway and called just as I was getting off work and asked me to do it. I was soooo shocked that I dropped everything to get special gifts/cards/balloons for both (or all 3) kids.

My DH IS a whole different guy and I feel so cherished after all those years of detachment. Our kids are noticing, too.

Thanks for this thread.

Ace

Soooo sorry about that tragedy near your area, Mark. Glad you are all OK and hope that DGD gets well soon.

Ace

Unfortunately my wife is still very much wayward... but I did something for her anyway... here it is... I copied it from my thread...

Today is St. Valentines Day. So I went through with my plans to be nice to my WW. I got some flowers. (Red tulips and blue iris’s) I got the cheap silver ring with the engraving on it and a card. I got all dressed up in my dress blue uniform. (I’m one hunka hunka burnin man in that uniform! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> … LOL) I wrote a poem today and put it in a card. I swing by her work and go inside and I give her the flowers, the card and the ring.

Here’s the poem….

Even though we’re apart
You’re the only Valentine for my heart.
And I just wanted you to know
That I take a piece of you wherever I go.

I have a paper all faded and yellow.
It’s full of “I love you” notes for a special fellow.
It’s written in ink the color of green
It was written by you, my beautiful queen.

I read it once and sometimes twice a day
To remind me of you while you’re away.
And on days when I think of this terrible trial
I just look at your picture and it makes me smile.

The flowers I bring are called “Hugs and Kisses”
And they’re for you my beautiful Misses.
The ring is silver it needs no description.
Please don’t forget to read the inscription.

I long for the time when we reunite,
of tender days and passionate nights.
I pine for the good times that we spent together,
on bright sunny days and in stormy weather.

Take this poem wherever you go
So you don’t forget, so that you’ll know
Even though we’re apart
You’re still the only valentine for my heart.

She didn’t believe I wrote it… She wanted to know who helped me. LOL…

Let me explain the part about the note on yellow paper… Years ago she wrote me a note on yellow paper with green ink. It was full of I love this about you and I love that about you… etc… It meant a lot to me so I always kept it in my wallet. I still have it… I wrote her a similar note much later so that we would both have one. Apparently only one of us really meant what we said.

WOW! That poem is truly "Amazin!" Totally beautiful!!

Amazin WOW! is right! WAY TO GO!!!!

H made RESERVATIONS for dinner at a nice restuarant. He's NEVER made reservations anywhere. I was quite impressed with just that! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Dinner was absolute fabulous. Steak and lobster, cooked to perfection. Ate WAYYYYY to much but it was the BEST valentine's day we've ever had.

I had a hard time with finding a V'day card that really conveyed my feelings. I posted it on the smiles & trials thread. It seemed very appropriate for me...I hate a card that is NOT really what you want to say, and this one said it wonderfully. Check it out there, it would make a great homemade card for those having a hard time dealing with a WS but trying.

It was a hectic day the day before, so I had to scramble after-hours to get something for my FWW. I ended up with a very nice card and some chocolates. Turns out that she almost got the same chocolates for me, LOL. All in all it turned out to be a very nice day, and while things didn't go as planned that night, for a number of reasons, it turned out really great in the end (and no, I'm not going to go into details! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)

Quote

I got her a small bouquet of mixed flowers (not roses), a romantic card (boy was it tough to find a "wife" card that had a romantic message that wasn't about how wonderful EVRYTHING is about her...)

***BOY! You're right about that one! It took me 20 min of reading all the cards to find one that didn't comment on the love and devotion of our many years together,or how special he is for standing by me! I never ever thought I would have that issue with my H. Cards always came natural and spoke from my heart!

Quote

I feel so cherished

~emphasis mine

And that is how I wanted to feel...how I've always wanted to feel, and why I many times tell the BHs here to use the word "cherish" and do things that make their wives feel "cherished"...It is what is missing for so many that end up on the WW side of things...That is NOT to say that adultery is EVER justified-IT IS NOT...But I do think that lack of feeling "cherished" may likely have been missing in the marriage pre-affair-and that DOES leave a marriage vunerable to an affair...I've heard many FWWs say that they didn't feel cherished...I think it is VERY important to many women...

That being said, yesterday, for me was not a happy day...Mr. W chose to ignore Valentine's Day...I was STUNNED and I remain CRUSHED...We leave for Atlanta tomorrow for winter break, and he says he wants to celebrate there-but that is too late-Valentine's Day is over...Sure, we can go out while there and do whatever and it will likely be nice, but that will not change that on Valentine's Day many people got flowers, candy, jewelry etc., which for sure says "I remembered you-I care about you-I love you-I cherish you"-and I was forgotten...It will not change that on the day set aside specifically for the purpose of love, romance and specialness, that I felt none of those things from Mr. W...

And when I cried, I got excuses and defensiveness...not an apology...I got told that the day wasn't over yet and that he could go and get me something still...Um, miss the point much? When that didn't work he tried telling me that he had gone to our daughter's school Valentine's party with me-Um...okay,but the last time I checked she was his daughter too...I'm very glad he was there, of course, but really that isn't a "Valentine" to me, yanno? And he wasn't sure he was going to that until the last minute anyway...sigh...When I was still upset, he said "Well I did go and buy you a new refrigerator this morning!" Riiiight, what was I thinking? Silly me, I am the only one that uses the refrigerator here-clearly that was a lovely and oh-so-thoughtful Valentine's Day gift! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> (Btw, we've needed a new fridge since we moved in-9 YEARS AGO in September!!! We are planning to put our house on the market-it HAD to have a new fridge to sell) To add further insult to injury, he tells me that I'll need to clean out the old refrigerator before the new one gets delivered in the morning...I lost it...Needless to say *I* did NOT clean out the fridge-He did...

Something that really amazes me, is that just the day before, Mr. W spent quite a lot of time posting to eyeofthestorm about what he should get his WW for Valentine's Day...He even asked ME for suggestions before posting...So it's not like he didn't know it was coming, or that he didn't have any have ideas...I read those posts from him now as pretty darned insincere...Very "do as I say, not as I do"...

I had been wracking my brain for what to get Mr. W-he is REALLY hard to buy for-finally I broke down and called him and asked for suggestions-See, the last two gifts I've given him are still in their boxes-a TIVO and an iPod-we are both trying to get in shape, so sweets of any kind were out-so I have legitimate reasons for not having a clue what to buy for him! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Getting gifts is NOT his "love language"...He told me not to get him anything and that he would like to go to a certain restaurant in Atlanta-He seemed very relieved that he'd "caught" me before I bought him anything-at the time I assumed this was because Mr. W is not a fan of spending money-little did I know, huh? I told him that I still was getting him at least a card, and I did-a musical one...Apparently, he ran and bought one for me after learning this, because he told me when I was crying that he did, in fact, get me a card...However, at that point, I told him to save it for next year-I certainly didn't feel like giving him the one I'd bought for him that played "Amazed"-that would have felt real insincere under the circumstances...

I thought I'd be "over it" today, but I'm not-I'm still crying and still getting excuses from him-(those excuses just add more damage)...I've felt like such a "teenaged drama queen" because I'm this upset over Valentine's Day...

But then I remembered Dr. Harley's words from the Weekend Seminar booklet under How to Make Love Bank Deposits, Part 2-Affection-Anyone can LEARN to be affectionate-Habits that go a long way toward becoming affectionate...

#7 on this list says...

Quote

Gifts for special occasions (birthday, anniversary, Christmas, Mother's Day, and Valentine's Day) should be sentimental, not practical. Learn how to shop for your wife.

Wow, that actually presumes that you get your wife a gift-that it should be a given that you do at least that...But not only should you get your wife a gift, it should be SENTIMENTAL and NOT practical (A refrigerator is NOT a GIFT for your wife-NOR is a Washer/Dryer-and YES, he did do that the Valentine's Day after I had just given birth to our dd! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> I thought he'd LEARNED!)...Mr. W was at that same MB Seminar...He has the same booklet and he KNOWS that affection is one of my top Emotional Needs...He is a very smart man...I don't understand why he did this...It just plain hurts...

Anyway, I do realize this isn't the "end of the world", but I KNOW that it IS a giant Love Bank withdrawal for me-and that is NOT good...Dr. Harley says that marriage is a relationship of EXTRAORDINARY CARE-this does NOT show any kind of care, much less the kind of the extraordinary variety...Mr. W is a GREAT husband in so many ways, and I am very grateful to have him in my life...to have been given a second chance by him-lest anyone think otherwise...This is a vent of sorts I suppose...perhaps someone else will read it and learn from it...I dunno, but I hope so...Anyway, thanks for "listening"...I needed to get this out, but most of all, I really need for Mr. W to GET it...It IS important...

Mrs. W

Is it possible the day is a trigger for him?

Mrs. W-

I'm sorry that your V-Day did not go as well as you had hoped. It makes me feel worse that I ended up deciding to do nothing for WW, either. After lots of thought on it and trying to come up with something that she wouldn't think was manipulative on my part, I chose to say or do nothing to her regarding V-Day.

I must admit that trying to maintain ANY semblance of Plan A amidst her constant mood swings and clear indication that the M is over is proving to be difficult. Add to that the fact that she (inadvertently) and OM will be receiving my letter to OM any day now indicating, among other things, that I'm filing the AOA suit against him, and I feel as though anything that I do will be perceived as controlling, manipulative, petty, and evidence of MY denial that the M is over.

She was a total b*tch yesterday for no apparent reason, so obviously, I was overjoyed to spend the afternoon and evening in her presence.

Quote

Is it possible the day is a trigger for him?

MEDC...

No, it for sure isn't...Good question though...

He will tell you that he has never had "triggers" of any kind...

Mrs. W

Quote

Mrs. W-

I'm sorry that your V-Day did not go as well as you had hoped. It makes me feel worse that I ended up deciding to do nothing for WW, either. After lots of thought on it and trying to come up with something that she wouldn't think was manipulative on my part, I chose to say or do nothing to her regarding V-Day.

I must admit that trying to maintain ANY semblance of Plan A amidst her constant mood swings and clear indication that the M is over is proving to be difficult. Add to that the fact that she (inadvertently) and OM will be receiving my letter to OM any day now indicating, among other things, that I'm filing the AOA suit against him, and I feel as though anything that I do will be perceived as controlling, manipulative, petty, and evidence of MY denial that the M is over.

She was a total b*tch yesterday for no apparent reason, so obviously, I was overjoyed to spend the afternoon and evening in her presence.

Thank you for your thoughts Eye...

I understand your position...I know that it would be VERY hard to near impossible to do things like that under the circumstances...

I will tell you this though...During my affair when I was in Atlanta with OM, Mr. W sent me this bouquet of a really special kind of roses-I don't know what kind they were, but they were the most beautiful ones I've ever seen...I had them on the coffee table of the hotel I was staying in...Anytime that OM would come over, he would put them in the corner...I always put them back...Mr. W's message got through to me...I will never forget his being able to be that kind and thoughtful to me in the face of my horrible betrayal of him...He was the picture of AMAZING GRACE in his Plan A...You'd be surprised what will get through to her-I guarantee you that she is in a state of GREAT conflict...

Mrs. W

Thanks, Mrs. W. I hope there is some truth to what you say about WW and her conflict.

MrsW,

You and MrW are two of my favorite people here at MB, and while I can't explain what MrW is/was thinking, I can share an experience/feeling that I encountered yesterday.

I stopped off at our local Hallmark store yesterday on my lunch hour to pick up FogFree a card. We never were big Valentine's Day people, but we always get each other a card, and I try to find one that was appropriate.

Anyway, I was in kind of a "funk" yesterday, some of it had to do with a personal business matter that was becoming more difficult than was necessary, but there was something else that I just couldn't put my finger on ... and still can't for that matter.

While at the Hallmark store, I started reading through the VD cards, and the "funk" got worse. It's like someone else pointed out, its hard to find a card that doesn't just "gush" with stuff that is no longer appropriate in our situations. I ended up getting a rather generic card and wrote my own message, which acknowledged my recommitment to her, but admittedly also got a little negative when I went into how much I still hurt over having to be in this situation.

When FogFree read the card, you could tell she was touched by the underlying message, but I also sensed a great deal of guilt from her for us having to endure this "fracture" in an otherwise very good M. There just seemed to be a "cloud" over us on this VD.

We have been doing very well, and I'd venture to say that we're further along in our recovery than 90+% of the others here in our same situation, but for some reason, yesterday just put me into this "funk" that I just couldn't shake.

Who knows what someone else is thinking ... MrW seems like a great guy, possibly he experienced something similar to my reaction to VD, even though I really don't know exactly what it was that I experienced.

Quote

Is it possible the day is a trigger for him?

MEDC...

No, it for sure isn't...Good question though...

He will tell you that he has never had "triggers" of any kind...

Mrs. W

Re: triggers ... I'll admit that I had some very bad ones early on, but thankfully haven't had to experience anything like that in some time. What I experienced yesterday sure wasn't a "trigger", because it didn't bring back all of those old feelings and images. Like I said, I can't really explain it, but it was more like "grief" ... like the emotion you feel at a funeral. I was just "sad" yesterday.

Quote

.I needed to get this out, but most of all, I really need for Mr. W to GET it...It IS important...

Hmm.. sounds like Mr. W is suffering from an episode of DumbHusbanditis, with all those excuses and no apologies. Sigh - we call get it from time to time. Go easy on him - we know he loves you to bits, and I think you know that too <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

I guess I must be different when it comes to Valentine's Day and other celebrations like that. I don't, or at least try not to, *expect* anything from my FWW. Sometimes she gets something for me, sometimes she doesn't. When she doesn't, it doesn't bother me - I certainly don't go about moaning over it, particularly as she shows me in other ways that she cares a lot about me. When she does get something for me, then I'm very appreciative. Likewise for her.

For both of us, it just seems like the gifts and actions leave a greater impression on both giver and receiver when the giver is giving them because they want to do so, not because they think it's something expected of them.

Quote

Who knows what someone else is thinking ... MrW seems like a great guy, possibly he experienced something similar to my reaction to VD, even though I really don't know exactly what it was that I experienced.

I experienced something similar for VDay. At one minute past midnight, I pulled the box of chocolates and the card I chose out of the cupboard where I was hiding it and presented it to my FWW. She thanked me, and said she'd got me something too, but she didn't get me a card. I jokingly gave a bit pout about that, to which she said "well, I'm not really a card-giving person you know". I laughed it off and didn't pursue the matter any further.

Later on in the night, it suddenly came to mind that this non-card-giving person had actually gone out of her way to make a few cards for the OM while their A was going on. That troubled me for awhile - kept me awake to be honest, until I chose not to let it bother me anymore.

VDay can be very difficult on BSs in so many different ways...

Quote

MrsW,

You and MrW are two of my favorite people here at MB, and while I can't explain what MrW is/was thinking, I can share an experience/feeling that I encountered yesterday.

I stopped off at our local Hallmark store yesterday on my lunch hour to pick up FogFree a card. We never were big Valentine's Day people, but we always get each other a card, and I try to find one that was appropriate.

Anyway, I was in kind of a "funk" yesterday, some of it had to do with a personal business matter that was becoming more difficult than was necessary, but there was something else that I just couldn't put my finger on ... and still can't for that matter.

While at the Hallmark store, I started reading through the VD cards, and the "funk" got worse. It's like someone else pointed out, its hard to find a card that doesn't just "gush" with stuff that is no longer appropriate in our situations. I ended up getting a rather generic card and wrote my own message, which acknowledged my recommitment to her, but admittedly also got a little negative when I went into how much I still hurt over having to be in this situation.

When FogFree read the card, you could tell she was touched by the underlying message, but I also sensed a great deal of guilt from her for us having to endure this "fracture" in an otherwise very good M. There just seemed to be a "cloud" over us on this VD.

We have been doing very well, and I'd venture to say that we're further along in our recovery than 90+% of the others here in our same situation, but for some reason, yesterday just put me into this "funk" that I just couldn't shake.

Who knows what someone else is thinking ... MrW seems like a great guy, possibly he experienced something similar to my reaction to VD, even though I really don't know exactly what it was that I experienced.

Thank you for saying that we are a couple of your faves-that is VERY nice to hear! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I understand very much what you are saying regarding the Valentine's Day card sentiments...Hey, I read them and feel horrible knowing that I did what I did...I really do get that...I imagine that is incredibly difficult-My father had Bipolar Disorder, and I often felt that way when trying to pick a card for Father's Day...I feel ya on that one for sure...

We are almost three years past Dday and both of us feel recovered from the affair...I can honestly say that this recent gaff has nothing to do with that...I guarantee you that he would agree...

See, this has been a recurrent problem for our entire marriage...Mr. W does not understand how important this kind of stuff is to me...He is a notoriously bad gift giver-Oh the stories I could tell you-many of them ARE actually funny in the retelling, but the fact remains that I've been hurt more times than I can count where gifts/occasions are concerned...I thought that things had changed-at Christmas he picked out a beautiful Hugo Boss diamond watch for me all by himself-it was a total surprise and I was blown away-and have been repeatedly thankful and appreciative over it-I mention it TONS-and have shown, ahem, very appropriate "enthusiasm" over it-(hubba, hubba-lol)...I try very hard to give positive reinforcement...Maybe he thought he could skate Valentine's Day because of Christmas...I just don't know...

What really hurts is that he continues to rationalize and justify his choice to skip Valentine's Day...That is damaging-I want to scream "OWN IT DANG IT!!! Sincerely apologize, genuinely get it and we'll move on."...It would be like my trying to mitigate my affair-I have NO EXCUSE for what I chose to do...it was a horrible, selfish choice and anything other than totally owning that would be a slap in the face to Mr. W...This is the same thing on an obviously much smaller scale, if that makes sense...

I adore Mr. W...I'm not going anywhere or trying to threaten or imply that I am...I am in this marriage forever...I am totally committed and in love with him...I just want our marriage to be the BEST it can be...Normally I would not even post about some perceived "wrong", but this one keeps repeating and I don't know how else to get through to him...AND I really do hope that others might gain some insight from it...

Anyway, thanks again MyRev...We dig you too, btw! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

Quote

.I needed to get this out, but most of all, I really need for Mr. W to GET it...It IS important...

Hmm.. sounds like Mr. W is suffering from an episode of DumbHusbanditis, with all those excuses and no apologies. Sigh - we call get it from time to time. Go easy on him - we know he loves you to bits, and I think you know that too <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

This made me LOL MIM...Thanks! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> And yes, I do know that he loves me, and I love him too...I'd just like to be shown that by his meeting my need for Affection in the ways that I like to have it met, KWIM?

Quote

For both of us, it just seems like the gifts and actions leave a greater impression on both giver and receiver when the giver is giving them because they want to do so, not because they think it's something expected of them.

Hmmm...I'm not sure how to NOT expect for him to meet my EN for Affection...That is how Dr. Harley categorizes gift giving on occasions...Affection is my number #3 need...It is real important to me...I've outlined that over the years ad nauseam...If I shut up about it, that implies that I'm okay with how he meets this particular need, yanno? Dr. Harley says that CRITICISM is bad in a marriage, but that COMPLAINTS are necessary and good...It's how one spouse knows whether or not they are meeting the other's most important ENs...

I will likely post about this to Dr. Harley in the private section here and see what he has to say...

Thanks MIM!

Mrs. W

Mrs Wondering, im new to MB but in my short time here I have found you and Mr. wondering to be a great source of hope and wisdom. I seek out your posts wherever i can find them so i hope you will forgive Mr W's VD gaffe. -good to know even he makes mistakes on occasion.

the point of my barge in is i would like to know more of your story. how long did the A last? did it end during plan A or did it go to plan B etc. Im sure you have told the full story before and if you can point me to a link i would be greatful. And i will continue to follow both your posts.

Quote

Hmmm...I'm not sure how to NOT expect for him to meet my EN for Affection...That is how Dr. Harley categorizes gift giving on occasions...Affection is my number #3 need...It is real important to me...I've outlined that over the years ad nauseam...If I shut up about it, that implies that I'm okay with how he meets this particular need, yanno?

Hmm... maybe I should clarify a bit..

Express some disappointment if you were looking forward to something special - yes.
Groan and moan about it and "punish" him by sulking, etc. - No.

If you do the latter, how would you know that the next he's doing it, he's doing it because he wants to show his love for you, not just because he wants to avoid conflict? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Of course, I think he's wrong by giving excuses instead of just apologizing for not meeting that need of yours. Sigh.. a symptom of dumbhusbanitis - an inability to apologize when the need calls for it... a condition typically best cured by the H resorting to some extra-special TLC and grovelling - after apologizing appropriately, of course <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

My W had flowers on her desk when she got to work.

She got her favorite chocolate - only a little, because she's on a diet, but she got some.

We went dancing in the evening, and it went OK - considering that I am not much of a dancer.

When she got ready for Bed, there was a card on her pillow.

Mrs W, It took me 25 years to "get it." (We have been married for nearly 31 years.) However, I would think your H would have a real incentive these days. He has all these things he has to juggle, and it looks like he is dropping the wrong ball.

Please stick his head through monitor for us, so we can beat some sense into him. I promise to do no permanent damage.

Or, you can take him to an electrician, and have him re-wired. That works in some cases.

Getting serious again, has he gotten it yet, or is he still in denial?

SS

Quote

Mrs Wondering, im new to MB but in my short time here I have found you and Mr. wondering to be a great source of hope and wisdom. I seek out your posts wherever i can find them so i hope you will forgive Mr W's VD gaffe. -good to know even he makes mistakes on occasion.

the point of my barge in is i would like to know more of your story. how long did the A last? did it end during plan A or did it go to plan B etc. Im sure you have told the full story before and if you can point me to a link i would be greatful. And i will continue to follow both your posts.

Well thank you for the nice compliment betterorworse-We really do appreciate it! Our recovery has gone well, but we are certainly far from perfect and we both make mistakes-LOL! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> We will overcome this eventually...I feel certain...

Anyway, as far as our story is concerned, I found an old post of mine to TryTooHard...Hopefully that will answer a lot of your questions, but if not, feel free to ask...We'll gladly offer anything that we can! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The length of the affair? Hmmm, let's see...OM first contacted me in Feb. 2005...Conversations became inappropriate by March 2005...(It was a long distance affair)...It became physical in late March 2005...Dday was April 26, 2005...The affair continued...Next Physical contact in May 2005...OM broke it off in June 2005...Last contact by me was in July 2005...OM emailed me in Feb. 2006-that email was not even opened until Mr. W was called...We read it and responded together...OM emailed back-Mr. W responded and handled that very efficiently-We have not heard from him again thankfully...

No Plan B was necessary...It is in 85% of cases however...

Okay, on to the post you asked for...(Sorry for the T/J)...

Quote

Hmmm...our story...yeah, that's an easy post...LOL...I'll sure give it a shot, albeit abbreviated...

K, let's see, we had both withdrawn in the marriage...Both very ripe for an affair due to that...We had just quit putting in effort...Our dd was 5 at the time and attending school, so I sure had a less involved role as a SAHM...My baby was gone most of the day, I had lots of new free time on my hands which I chose not to put to good use-I sure wasn't making our home environment a pleasant one, and Mr. W was a workaholic, and ya know, who wants to come home when things aren't very nice? He would leave the house in the morning @ around 7:45am and wouldn't return most nights til 12:00 or 1:00am...By the weekend I was burned out of being by myself with our dd from the time she got out of school til the time she went to bed...So I withdrew more and stayed in our bedroom on the computer or watching tv and left Mr. W to entertain our dd...

Conversation at this point (usually our strong suit) was dead...What did we have to talk about but how annoyed we were with each other? For me, without conversation I could not connect...SF is a top need of Mr. W's and how he connects with me...I didn't buy that at the time and thought he only wanted sex for sex's sake...Now I see how wrong I was in my attitude about sex (I have MB to thank for that)...Admiration is a top need of mine, but dang I wasn't doing anything very admirable back then, so how in the heck could Mr. W meet that need really?

Okay, so in the middle of all this terrible withdrawal, I get an email from my ex high school/college bf through classmates.com...We had dated off and on for nine years back in the day-Good Lord, could BIG RED DANGER FLAG been all over that or what??? Truth was, I was flattered as all get out by that email (at the time I was in the midst of a very dark depression)...I even called and told Mr. W about it-told him how excited that I was that this guy had gone so far as to contact me...DUH...Mr. W, being a liberal kind of guy at the time thought nothing of it, nor did I really because afterall, I was one of those folks that said "I WOULD NEVER CHEAT"...When you think that way, moving boundaries is no sweat, yanno? So I emailed him back...found out that he had been divorced since October of 2004 (this was in Feb of 2005) Phone numbers were exchanged-at first the conversations were okay, but quickly turned to "remember whens"...At that point OM noticed that I was not my usual perky self and said as much...that opened the floodgates and the conversations turned to "what ifs"...the emails and phone calls stepped up, and out came the text messages...Btw, this was a long distance situation...Soon we made plans to get together when my dd and I were going home for winter break at the end of March...The rest you can probably guess...The relationship went physical, which crazily enough didn't take a big jump...I had a past sexual history with OM and of course our recent communications had stripped away all boundaries...

I came home VERY detached from Mr. W as you might imagine...Mr. W got real suspicious, found a hotel receipt, new lingerie and the final straw, a very graphic text message...Dday was in April 2005...I was completely addicted to OM and the affair at this point and told Mr. W, "I can't not do this" (nice double negative) I made plans to leave for two weeks to stay in a hotel and see OM (May 2005)...This was before Mr. W found MB, so he didn't know about exposure (edited to add: Mr. W found MB while I was in Atlanta-at the time he didn't think exposure was for him-yikes! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />)...I went and continued the affair...Left Mr. W alone with our DD who was REALLY SICK the morning I set out-that kills me to think about now...I was just as bad, if not worse, than any WS that you read about here...ugh...

My mom, of course, knew something was up as I was not choosing to stay with my parents when I came into town...I just told her that I needed "space" to think about all the bad stuff in our marriage (typical battlecry of the WS)...My mom stayed on top of me about this...Finally after returning from being with OM, I broke down and exposed myself to my mom...That was all she wrote...My mom was PISSED, understandably...She loves Mr. W and of course wanted the best for our dd...She lent Mr. W her full support...They conspired and since she had known OM from childhood, she called him and threatened him with all sorts of believable stuff-and he KNEW she would make good on those threats (Not the MB way to threaten, btw-forewarned is forearmed-we were very lucky that this worked-in most situations it would have backfired-my mom happened to KNOW that OM would be in BIG trouble if his parents found out and that worked in our favor thankfully)...He was a coward like most all OMs are...He dumped me the next day without telling me why, as that had been one of my mom's stipulations...I went nuts-by the book for a WS...Told Mr. W that I wanted to separate, thinking I could persuade OM if I was "single"...I still laugh at Mr. W's simple answer to that worked on me...He just said "NO"...calmly and securely, "NO"...Don't know why, but that baffled me and I shut up and started withdrawal...Which was a nightmare...BUT...Mr. W was the most amazing Plan Aer in the world...He let me grieve...listened to REALLY horrible things that I said and just did a lot of nodding and understanding...Went into high gear of doing fun social things with me (read: we partied like rock stars-see that was how our courtship began years ago and he took us back to that time-no relationship talks unless I initiated)...

I was really miserable in withdrawal-self esteem crushed...By this time Mr. W had started reading MB regularly and had purchased Surviving An Affair and another ebook...He left those things lying around the house and I was in so much despair that I picked up both and began reading...He also sent me a link to the forums here and I began reading...Getting really involved in certain threads and getting mad at the WSs talked about in them-still didn't identify that that was ME in those stories really...I gradually became aware...Eventually I registered and posted here first...Wanting to know if my feelings for Mr. W would ever return...I honestly didn't think they could (I was VERY wrong)...I was told in essence to "fake it til ya make it" and that is how the whole recovery process for us began...Oh and I posted some seriously foggy stuff here in the beginning...Mr. W even registered under a different name and posted to me...We still laugh about the fact that I immediately had a connection with that poster...I thought he was darn smart and really funny...Goes to show that I was attracted to Mr. W even when I thought I wasn't...

At the time Mr. W did tell me that he had only one boundary and that was that he refused to be in a loveless marriage...Unbeknownst to me, he had resided himself to the fact that he would go through the summer with me and have as much fun or pleasure as I would allow...thinking that it could be the last time that we had together as an intact family...By the end of the summer had things not started looking up, he intended to put our house on the market and take our dd and move to his parents home.(they only live there in the summer) By the grace of God I began to get it and things started looking up...

For us, MB (the forums, the books and the weekend seminar) has been our saving grace...I didn't find out that my mom and Mr. W had anything to do with OM dumping me for more than a year after the affair ended...I can't tell you how grateful and in awe of them that I am for saving me and our family from, well, ME...

Today we are very happy together and continue to implement MB principles in our marriage...I could not ask for any more blessings than I have been granted...I didn't deserve them, that's for sure, but I am more grateful than I have words to say...

Gee Try, I'm not sure that this long diatribe was what you were looking for...I know that I've missed things, but I tried my best to give you a clear picture of what transpired...Please feel free to ask me specifics and I will provide you anything that I can...

Mrs. W

MIM and SS...

No, he hasn't gotten it yet, though I remain hopeful...His latest "excuse" is that he felt sure that his saying that he was glad that I hadn't bought anything for him and that he wanted us to go to that restaurant in Atlanta was telling me that we weren't celebrating until then...Um, NO-that conversation was about HIM and I NEVER, EVER implied otherwise...I would NEVER have agreed to that...He is calling this a "miscommunication"...It was NOT...I have always been very clear about how much gifts on occasions mean to me...This is not the first time something like this has happened...Not by a long shot...He does know how important this is to me...

Then he said...and this one is a DOOZY in my book...If I had told him that I had gotten him a gift, then he would have made a point to get me one...Um, that is NOT what is supposed to motivate you to give your spouse a gift!!! Your motivation is supposed to come from CARE...from LOVE...from CHERISHING the other person...and from KNOWING that it means a GREAT DEAL to your spouse...sigh...

I'm not sure how to handle this from here...It is very hard to just excuse it when he obviously hasn't gotten it...I told him that I don't want an empty apology given just to shut me up...I want him to understand...I want him to come to me humbly and with no excuses...We'll see I guess...

Thanks you guys!

Mrs. W

Mrs. W...I am one of your biggest fans here..I hope you can see that based on my posts to and about you. I am just wondering if it is fair to bring this stuff up on the forum. I'm not saying it isn't...that is up to you and Mr. W..but I know I wouldn't care for it. Just a thought.

Another thought is that VD is a greeting card company hyped holiday. If it means a lot to you, I say celebrate the day. But why does it mean a lot? Does it really matter to you that others are getting flowers and you are getting nothing? What's wrong with waiting for the dinner in ATL? I can see where he would have felt the "celebration of VD would be then.

Now as far as his being a blockhead in the gift giving arena, I would say I am surprised based on how thoughtful he is in other areas of your marriage. Instead of insensitive, he may just be totally clueless. If he has a sister(s) perhaps they can lend a hand in that area.

I wanted to do something very special for tst. He has done so much for me during these months of recovery, and I wanted to really touch his heart. (I did.)

I made him a CD of music that expressed my feelings or what I see that he feels. He was so moved by it. We laid in bed crying and holding each other as we listened to the 18 songs. Titles, you ask? Well, they included "You're Still the One", "Blessed", "I Still Believe in You", "Remember When?", and so many more beautiful songs. (Yes, we love country!)

He said he couldn't believe I made him a CD. I told him I have wanted to for years, but hadn't figured out how. He said I picked a good year to do it.

I made a wonderful dinner with one of our family's favorite meals...my homemade stuffed bread roll and brownie sundaes. We(kids and I) had the table all set and ready for him when he walked in the door. That was great because he had a rough day at work.

tst gave me a pair of earrings that have a cute story behind them that touched me that he remembered.

And, of course, we both had cards to give.

And we also spent last weekend on a romantic getaway that was just wonderful!

Quote

Mrs. W...I am one of your biggest fans here..I hope you can see that based on my posts to and about you. I am just wondering if it is fair to bring this stuff up on the forum. I'm not saying it isn't...that is up to you and Mr. W..but I know I wouldn't care for it. Just a thought.

Thank you MEDC-I know you to be a friend here-No worries! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Interesting about it being "fair" to bring it here--Why not? Are we held to some different standard than others here? It's a persistant problem in our marriage-it predated the affair...

I think a lot of people here falsely believe that Mr. W is "perfect"-I certainly think he is incredible myself, but I KNOW he is NOT perfect...

My "dirty laundry" has definately be aired here...Why isn't it "fair" for Mr. W's not so stellar behaviors be told here? I've kept my mouth shut about SO many things here and allowed his impeccable reputation to remain pretty much untarnished...WHY??? He is a flawed human too!!! Maybe our recovery has gone so well BECAUSE he is far from being a SAINT...Perhaps it is time for others to know this stuff...I think transparency is important in our lives so that others may learn from what we have gone through...Towards that interest, here goes...

It may surprise you to learn that Mr. W cheated on me a TONS of times before we were married-and yes, I tried to "get him back" by cheating in return back then-HE NEVER CARED!!! No kidding!!! He prided himself on not being "the jealous type"...If you would have asked him which one of us was more likely to have an affair in marriage, even he would have told you that it would have been him...Did you realize that before my affair he propositioned one of our staff while I was out of town, she thankfully said "no" to him...I'm sure you didn't know that right after we were engaged, I got a card in the mail from "anonymous" that said "Congratulations on your engagement, too bad Mr. W had to sleep with so many of your friends first...For example: Sally and Kim"...For EIGHT years of our marriage I repeatedly asked him if he had slept with either "Sally" or "Kim"...He always swore "NO"...It wasn't until after Dday that I found out about the employee-(the employee that we had gone out with on one occasion WITH her fiance...the employee who I shopped for multiple shower and wedding gifts for)-and that he had, in fact, slept with "Kim"-("Kim" who caught the bouquet at our wedding...Kim who went out with us constantly as well as on many out of town trips...Kim who held our DD as a baby)...MAYBE that is WHY he has been able to forgive me...MAYBE that is WHY I understand why what I did was so WRONG and HURTFUL...I don't know, but I think it likely has had some bearing on our recovery, and perhaps others ought to know that...

Quote

Another thought is that VD is a greeting card company hyped holiday. If it means a lot to you, I say celebrate the day. But why does it mean a lot? Does it really matter to you that others are getting flowers and you are getting nothing? What's wrong with waiting for the dinner in ATL? I can see where he would have felt the "celebration of VD would be then.

I don't care who dreamed up the idea of Valentine's Day...I just know that my WHOLE life it has been special to ME...And yes, to ME it does matter that others celebrated their love for each other yesterday with gifts, flowers, candy and cards and I was ignored...Do you know who celebrates holidays after the fact? The women of TOW that's who! I'd buy his Atlanta story if I didn't know that he is accutely aware of how important it is to ME to receive gifts on occasions...I've never made that a secret...It's a BIG DEAL to me...We've had this same "fight" over and over...One of the reasons that I brought it here is because I don't know what else to do to get through to him! Maybe someone else will have more success that I have had...dunno...<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Quote

Now as far as his being a blockhead in the gift giving arena, I would say I am surprised based on how thoughtful he is in other areas of your marriage. Instead of insensitive, he may just be totally clueless. If he has a sister(s) perhaps they can lend a hand in that area.

Interesting that people here seem surprised to find out that Mr. W has faults-lol-I wouldn't want him to be as perfect as many seem to perceive him to be-That would be IMPOSSIBLE to ever live up to, yanno? As I said earlier, he IS a great husband in many, many ways...No doubt about it...I can assure you that he's not clueless anymore MEDC-He KNOWS that this stuff is a HUGE deal to me-This kind of thoughtless behavior has happened on pretty much every occasion throughout our marriage-starting with our first married Christmas...This Christmas was the EXCEPTION and NOT the RULE...He has two sisters...it's unlikely that he'd listen to them or that they would even talk to him about it...

Thank you for your thoughts MEDC...

Mrs. W

MrW, you are a [censored]. GOOD GRIEF!

......and I say that with love. But, GOOD GRIEF!!

From my perspective, it isn't WHAT you want or the validity of your desire for gifts or the acknowledgment of Valentine's Day that is the problem. It is the way you are going about trying to get this need met.

Quote

I've found that the most common Love Busters in marriage fall into six categories: Selfish Demands, Disrespectful Judgments, Angry Outbursts, Annoying Habits, Independent Behavior and Dishonesty

The first three of these Love Busters are instinctive, yet thoughtless, ways to try to get what you want from each other. When a request doesn't work, a spouse will often revert to a demand ("I don't care how you feel -- do it or else!"). If that doesn't get the job done, a spouse will try disrespectful judgments ("If you had any sense, and were not so lazy and selfish, you would do it"). And then, when all of that fails, an angry outburst often represents the last ditch effort ("I'll see to it that you regret not having done it").

Of course, demands, disrespect and anger don't really get the job done. You generally don't do things for your spouse because of these Love Busters, you do them out of care and consideration. If your spouse is demanding, disrespectful and angry, you tend to be less caring and considerate, leading you to do less for your spouse. Instead of giving your spouse what he or she needs, demands, disrespect and anger cause you to resist. I want you to have what you need in your marriage, but demands, disrespect and anger will not get it for you. They will prevent you from having what you want if you revert to these destructive instincts.

Quote

WOW! That poem is truly "Amazin!" Totally beautiful!!

Quote

Amazin WOW! is right! WAY TO GO!!!!

Thank you all...

I guess when it comes from the heart it just flows out... Kinda mushy but it was supposed to tug on her heart strings...

Quote

From my perspective, it isn't WHAT you want or the validity of your desire for gifts or the acknowledgment of Valentine's Day that is the problem. It is the way you are going about trying to get this need met.

Who is "YOU?"

Quote

Mr. W chose to ignore Valentine's Day...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I get sooooo ticked off when people refer to "needs" as "demands". My DH did the same thing, calling my needs demands. I personally think it's an "excuse" not to meet the need.

I know that I made many respectful requests many times and the needs weren't met. And after awhile when the needs weren't met and then I was upset, it all of a sudden became a demand. That is BS. My MC agrees.

I'm so sorry you have been let down again Mrs. W.

{{{{{Mrs. W.}}}}}

Mrs. W.

I've read this entire thread and the only thing I can tell you that may help is... PATIENCE…

I recently had an epiphany about a lot of the stupid dumb things I was doing in my marriage. Everything that I had the revelation about were things my wife had been telling me about for several years. My wife would tell me about them, and I would hear them, but for some reason it wasn’t getting through my thick skull. It wasn’t until I put myself in her shoes and sincerely tried to understand her feelings and things from her perspective that the light went off…

After my “epiphany” I read a thread from Mortorman about what the bible says the roles of husband and wife should be. These “biblical roles” re-enforced what I perceived to be many mistakes by myself and my wife in our marriage. The way Mortorman explained it, these biblical roles also re-enforced the MB principals.

For example: He explained the scripture that says… wives obey your husbands… and…. Husbands love your wives…

Maybe you’ve already read it but here’s a link to the post… I really enjoyed it and maybe you and Mr. W will too.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...&PHPSESSID=

Frozen...Mr. W and I did you and Patriot the honor of staying out of your issues here...I would respectfully request the same from the two of you where Mr. W and I are concerned...

Thank you Mel and Mopey...Your words are much appreciated! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

Quote

Mrs. W.

I've read this entire thread and the only thing I can tell you that may help is... PATIENCE…

I recently had an epiphany about a lot of the stupid dumb things I was doing in my marriage. Everything that I had the revelation about were things my wife had been telling me about for several years. My wife would tell me about them, and I would hear them, but for some reason it wasn’t getting through my thick skull. It wasn’t until I put myself in her shoes and sincerely tried to understand her feelings and things from her perspective that the light went off…

After my “epiphany” I read a thread from Mortorman about what the bible says the roles of husband and wife should be. These “biblical roles” re-enforced what I perceived to be many mistakes by myself and my wife in our marriage. The way Mortorman explained it, these biblical roles also re-enforced the MB principals.

For example: He explained the scripture that says… wives obey your husbands… and…. Husbands love your wives…

Maybe you’ve already read it but here’s a link to the post… I really enjoyed it and maybe you and Mr. W will too.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...&PHPSESSID=

Thank you for your counsel Amazin...I agree with you that Mortarman's thread is a great one! Mr. W and Mortarman are personal friends-they talk on the phone pretty regularly...It might be wise for the both of us to re-read that thread...Thanks for the suggestion!

Mrs. W

Hi ((((Mrs. W.))))

Have you read the book, Wild At Heart?

John Eldredge says in it, the deepest cry from every woman's heart is, "Am I lovely?"

Every woman needs to know that she is exquisite, exotic, and chosen.

Yes, we want to be cherished, for all of our femininity, and beauty!

And on V Day, we want our DH to bring home something beautiful or sentimental, as a token, of what our feminity inspires w/in them.

Neglecting V day, is not a small thing.

He is neglecting a very tender and important need.

John Eldredge, says that the question that men are haunted by is, "Am I really a man? Have I got what it takes...when it counts?"

I believe this is why it is most important to men that their W's respect them.

Maybe if you explain to him that being cherished is as important to you as being respected is to him, he might "get it" better.

~ Marsh

PS: I read an article once that said that men don't like to receive gifts. Which would explain why we never know what to get them...they don't want us to. LOL

PPS: Amazin, That poem made me tear up. I'm gonna have to read your thread to see how your WW reacted to it.

Excellent post Marsh-a lot of insight, that really resonates with me...I have not read that book, but it sounds like one that I need to get A.S.A.P....I will certainly try those words with Mr. W...Thank you so much!

Mrs. W

Quote

Excellent post Marsh-a lot of insight, that really resonates with me...I have not read that book, but it sounds like one that I need to get A.S.A.P....I will certainly try those words with Mr. W...Thank you so much!

Mrs. W

Oh definitely get this book Mrs. W. You and Mr. W should both read it. My DH loved it and then taught on it in our church's men's group because he felt like every man should read it. It was that good.

I'm sorry your V-Day was so tough. V-Day's always tough on my DH because V-Day is the 14th and my birthday is three days later on the 17th. There were several years where he remembered V-Day but FORGOT my birthday! Ouch! LOL

He doesn't forget anymore. He gets it now how these days are important to me. Took him long enough though! But since his "period of insanity" he bends over backwards to do it right.

have not read that book, but it sounds like one that I need to get A.S.A.P....I will certainly try those words with Mr. W...Thank you so much!

****************************
It(the book) would make a nice belated Valentines gift for Mr.W. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

We don't "talk" much but I can truly empathize w/ you.
I hope Atlanta turns out to be special for you.

Here's a little piece from Mortormans "Roles of husbands and wives."

Becoming Your Wife's Sanctifier...(Ephesians 5:25-29)

Okay, here’s part two of the roles for the husband. Becoming your wife’s sanctifier. Many men are shocked by what they wind up with after they are married. They thought they were marrying this quiet person…she hasn’t stopped talking yet. He thought he was marrying a submissive woman…she started bossing him around right after the wedding. We men had a perspective on what we thought we were getting into and who we were getting into it with…only to be highly disappointed. Many men say “She’s changed.” Actually, what has happened is that she changed back. Back to what she was before she put on her best face for you while you were dating.

“Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church.”

Scripture is saying that a husband should love his wife like Christ loves the church in order to sanctify her and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word. Now, I will spend the rest of this installment tearing that sentence apart in order to find out what it means to sanctify our wives.

God not only wants us to be our wives’ savior, He wants us to be Her sanctifier. The word sanctification is one of those big words that basically means “to set apart as unique or special.” In the Bible many times, God took the vilest things and sanctified them for His own use. When a man sanctifies a woman, he sets her apart from her past. When we were dating and we decided to ask our wives to marry us, we made some glorious promises (most un-kept…but we meant well!). And those promises were of what we would do together, where we would go, what kind of life we would have. What we were doing was sanctifying our wives from their past. In the marriage ceremony, a great disconnect happens between a previous relationship of hers (usually to the wife’s father and mother) and she moves to a new relationship with her husband. And the only reason she should do that is that her future with him looks better then the one she had with her father.

Quote

The word sanctification is one of those big words that basically means “to set apart as unique or special.”

That's why husbands should do little things for their wives like... make a big deal over valentines day... or your anniversary…. Birthday… etc…

To make your wife feel like she’s special…

I didn’t understand how important that was until recently…
And Mrs. W's reaction to Mr. W's valentines day efforts seem to confirm how important they are to wives. We as husbands need to remember that.

Quote

Who is "YOU?"

Mel,

I wasn't being indirect. I thought it was obvious that I was addressing Mrs. Wondering's post. The intent behind my post to her was to focus on solutions, rather than deeming one spouse "right" or "wrong".

Regardless of any disagreements that Mrs. Wondering and I have had in the past, marriage is important to me and I would love for anyone's marriage to be as rewarding and satisfying as possible. Believe it or not, I sincerely do care.

She made it clear that she isn't interested and that's fine, so I won't discuss it with her any further.

Mopey,

Quote

I get sooooo ticked off when people refer to "needs" as "demands". My DH did the same thing, calling my needs demands. I personally think it's an "excuse" not to meet the need.

Sure, it's possible that someone could use that as an excuse not to meet needs. But...what if someone actually IS using one or all of the three destructive methods that Dr. Harley mentioned (not implying that you are - I really don't have enough information from what you said with which to form an opinion).

Quote

And after awhile when the needs weren't met and then I was upset, it all of a sudden became a demand.

I think that it depends on how being "upset" is expressed...not the fact that one spouse simply feels upset that makes it a demand.

The points you raise make an interesting topic of conversation.

Quote

Who is "YOU?"

Mel,

I wasn't being indirect. I thought it was obvious that I was addressing Mrs. Wondering's post.

No, it was not obvious to me or I wouldn't have asked. It was right under my post with my name in the reply, otherwise addressed to no one. Thanks for the clarification.

Hey Mrs. W!!!

You know I adore you both, and none of this is said to take sides, cuz everyone has negative aspects of their personality...my list of flaws is not any shorter than anyone else's...that's fo' sho'!!!

BUT, I have read through all of your posts and the responses, and while many of the woman on here totally get where you are coming from, the male posters are sorta falling back on the "it's just a guy being clueless" thing. I am not knocking you guys AT ALL...it would be my first response as well. And I know a lot of guys have issues with meeting their wives/GFs expectations in this area. I am very lucky that W2S has always been very kind and loving in that respect. I always felt spoiled by him when it comes to this stuff, so it makes my idiotic A and re-writing of history all the more sickening.

But, in this case, I am concerned, because while Mr. W is a great guy and husband in many apsects, the fact that he continues this pattern is not at all IMO "just being clueless" or "just a guy thing." He is way too smart and very knowledgeable in the MB ways for that sort of excuse. Not to say other men who "don't get this chick stuff" are not smart also...but in this case, I don't think Mr.W can play that card, yanno. I really don't know what he is thinking, nor will I take a guess. But he should really seek guidance from Dr. Harley one-on-one to figure it out.

I hope you guys can have a great trip together and can find a way past this particular instance, but then going forward he must address this issue. It is the extraordinary care that is the foundation of the MB principles and a wonderful M, and I wish you guys the very best as you work together to try and make sure this does NOT happen again and again.

Be safe on your trip and try to have some fun!!!

Quote

It was right under my post with my name in the reply, otherwise addressed to no one.

I always forget about that "Re" thing. I usually just read to the bottom of a thread and then hit reply.

Thanks for pointing that out. That's pretty useful communication information and will probably save me much misunderstanding in the future.

Hope you and yours are well.

Quote

Hope you and yours are well.

Thanks so much; same to you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hey Froz,

Well, I must admit that I have been guilty at times of using LBs as a knee jerk reaction before when my needs weren't getting met, especially before I found MB, but not all the time.

It was especially hard for me after d-day because of the constant lies and multiple d-days, so I was basically in a perpetual state of unhappiness a lot of the time. I was so upset with him (my DH) most of the time because of this, that it was nearly impossible for me not to LB after repeated attempts of respectful requests. When someone drags you through what he drug me through, it's hard to be respectful but I did try many times.

Other than LBing, I could have taken the option to plan B him or plan D him when the respectful request didn't work. I wasn't getting upset over him not taking out the trash or something. I was getting upset over getting affair timelines and such from him. And when I first replied on this subject, it came from the pain of what has happened to me since d-day.

I don't really want to argue this point because he was being a real chithead when it came to my recovery needs, so much so that we had to separate because of it.

My "recovery needs" that I asked for were not going to be POJA'd. I didn't get a say in his affairs and he wasn't getting a say in what I needed to recover from them either. If he doesn't want to do these things, he can leave the marriage. That's where I'm at on that.

Now if we're talking about any other kind of need, like Valentine's day, then that would be a little different. I'm not sure what I would do, other than try POJA. I suppose I would have to go so far as separating if repeated attempts at respectful request are dismissed and it was extremely important to me. I suppose I wouldn't do that either unless a lot of needs were being dismissed. I'm sure I would be losing love for him though over dismissing my needs, no matter if he thought they were insignificant.

I've got a bunch going on over the next week so I don't know how much I'll be able to get back to discussing this further with you, but I'll sure try.

This topic is interesting.

Hey there PM! Well yes, it does sound like I MUST get this book...I've read it discussed here before, by Mimi I think...Perhaps I'll check to see if they have it at the airport tomorrow before our plane takes off...Thank you for your sweet sentiments! Btw, in case I'm busy on our trip and am not around that much, Happy Early Birthday! I hope it is a GREAT one!

Nia, So nice to hear from you! Thank you for the warm wishes...Hmmm, dunno about getting the book FOR Mr. W, he still has yet to begin reading the two books I got him for Christmas...He really is tough to buy for...

Wow Amazin, thank you for going through and picking out the fine points from Mortarman's thread that speak to this issue...I sincerely appreciate you taking the time-very thoughtful...That whole thread is such a treasure, isn't it? I've really got to make time to re-read it-it's been so long ago now that I originally read it-I know I could certainly use a refresher!

And last, but certainly not least, LaLa...Well said my friend...You have quite a knack for getting it all out there...I agree very much with all that you said...I can't change him obviously, I can only hope and pray that he understands how deeply this stuff cuts, and that he finds it in himself to care and insure it doesn't keep happening...Thank you for posting...It means a lot to me...

All...I really appreciate the encouragement, support and suggestions that I received from all of you today...This is a truly great community...We leave tomorrow and will be gone for a week...I'm sure we'll be around from time to time to check in...Your prayers would be greatly appreciated!

Warmest Regards,

Mrs. W

Have a great trip Mrs. W. We'll sure miss you here.

And I agree that you should be able to express your needs and concerns here like everyone else. It's a great place to work out stuff like this I think.

And Amazin, I LOVED your poem. I never received one myself but would deeply touched if I did. I hope she appreciate it. I know I would.

Well, for what it's worth, I didn't get anything from WW for Valentines...
She's just so damn thoughtless sometimes...

Mopey,

Sorry it took me so long to respond. I've had some kind of kick-your-butt flu.

Quote

Well, I must admit that I have been guilty at times of using LBs as a knee jerk reaction before when my needs weren't getting met, especially before I found MB, but not all the time.

Oh, me too. I don't think I know anyone who hasn't.

Does that make it understandable? I think it does. But whether or not it is a justifiable response is irrelevant to my point. The point is that it doesn't accomplish anything (except maybe a temporary release for me).

I find it so interesting to read the Basic Concepts. It's all laid out in such simple terms - simple to understand, so hard to apply, yes?

And so hard to read them and see that *this* is what Dr. Harley is talking about...he's talking about ME in this situation.

And whether or not the issue is Valentine's Day or Recovery needs, if there is something that I want from my spouse, telling your spouse, "Give me this or else" (a selfish demand), "You're an idiot or a selfish jerk for not giving me this (a disrespectful judgment) or yelling, screaming, shaming him or whatever...it isn't going to be likely that my spouse will respond to this by suddenly realizing how much I deserve whatever it is I'm trying to get from him.

Dr. Harley says it clearly here...

Quote

Of course, demands, disrespect and anger don't really get the job done. You generally don't do things for your spouse because of these Love Busters, you do them out of care and consideration. If your spouse is demanding, disrespectful and angry, you tend to be less caring and considerate, leading you to do less for your spouse. Instead of giving your spouse what he or she needs, demands, disrespect and anger cause you to resist. I want you to have what you need in your marriage, but demands, disrespect and anger will not get it for you. They will prevent you from having what you want if you revert to these destructive instincts.

and then goes on to say...

Quote

But when you indulge in these three Love Busters, you do more than fail to get what you need -- you also destroy the love your spouse has for you. All of these instincts, and the habits they help create, cause your spouse to be unhappy, and that causes Love Bank withdrawals.

Which says to me, not only will I NOT get what I want by using these tactics, I will make my chances of getting what I want in the future very unlikely because my spouse will no longer be in love with me.

It's the Giver and Taker in action.

I gave.
Now I feel owed.
Because I feel owed...I'm entitled to treat my spouse any way I wish in order to try to force him to give me what I want/need.

And it just doesn't work.

Not only does it NOT work, it engages my spouse's Taker. Now he feels as though he has been wronged and he only feels more entitled to do whatever it is he was doing that hurt me.

It's a vicious cycle.

In most cases, I can clearly see how POJA would EASILY resolve the problem.

The error lies in thinking that one spouse's interests in the matter directly contradict the other's.

Since the topic of this thread is Valentine's Day, I'll use that for an example.

Conflict: Patriot waited until the last minute to get me a gift and I felt unimportant and not very special (he didn't really do that, it's just an example).

Now I could respond to this by punishing him (maybe giving him the silent treatment for a few days so he got the point) or I could LB him in some other way, but is that really going to make him feel like using his Giver? Probably not.

I could use Dr. Harley's suggestions.

I could tell him how I felt about it, without blaming or criticizing (which would only serve in his feeling defensive) and I could just simply TELL him what I want and ask him what the problem is with his giving it to me.

Maybe in my making it safe for him to discuss the matter openly with me, he reveals that his concern is about finances. He feels that I LB him on a regular basis with frequent shopping trips.

Again, this is the point at which the negotiation process could go awry, if I choose to be defensive after hearing his concerns.

Maybe I tell him that if he weren't such a tightwad, he wouldn't worry about that. At that point, there is no longer a negotation going on, because I'm telling him that his concerns are trivial.

Or I could continue to focus on the goal of getting resolution for this issue that addresses BOTH of our concerns.

If we struck a deal that I would negotiate future shopping trips with him and in return, he would make it a point to shop ahead of time for holidays and try to make them special for me, both spouses have something to gain.

And that's just one solution...there are probably many that would satisfy both spouses.

Most conflicts never even GET to that stage because one or both spouses are not making negotiations safe enough to even reveal the interests of each spouse.

Another interesting thing that I've noticed is that during a successful negotiation, love units are deposited for BOTH spouses just through the process of the negotiation itself - before any shopping trips are made or any gifts have been given...simply because your spouse listened, cared about your perspective and because their interests were even considered.

I can imagine that after having established a pattern of resolving conflict this way, a marriage would drastically improve because conflict would no longer be something that couples avoided (because of the bad feelings that arose from the method of dealing with it), they would begin to tweak and perfect the areas of their lives that one or both were dissatisfied with...sort of like a snowball effect.