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I've just had an epiphany.

Found an excellent book, "No More Mr Nice Guy" and it has opened my eyes and reinforced Plan A.

I have been struggling up until now why when I provided everything for my wife, did everything she asked of me, tried not to argue, fight with her, gave her as much money as possible did she want to leave and is still with the OM when she says she is unhappy.

And I think the unfortunate answer is me.

I have always thought of myself as a nice guy and I am sure this applies to a lot of other guys in the same situation. And that's the problem.

I sought approval from her all the time in everything I did, I never understood why she said I pressured her when I did everything for her, but that was the problem.

I basically had no balls. Was a wimp and didn't stand up for myself as a man and set boundaries. By giving her everything and saying yes all the time I actually pressured her and made her feel guilty.

I now understand why putting myself first and saying to her on V-day that I am going to put myself first and get a good job, wherever it was but I would PREFER her to come with me was such an attractive phrase to her....

Have a look at my previous post on the top of the page.

I think this is why guys in my situation have such a problem with Plan A. Until last Thursday for 2-3 months I have thought of it as pleasing her, making her happy, etc etc. i.e more of the same which pushed her away before and made her see me as a wimp....

How many guys make that mistake as well....

Plan A to me now is to stop sacrificing myself to the alter of my wife. Put myself & my needs top, pride, confidence and my balls back and I think that is what will be attractive to her.

Sorry this is long but I hope this helps other guys struggling with Plan A.

I think this is why Plan A fails a lot of the time for men, especially the "nice guys" they just try even harder with more of the same and dont understand why being nice doesnt work.

****** I havent understood until now why me being nice and her being unhappy with him didnt make her come running back, now I know.

Be a man, grow some balls, believe in yourself, be happy and then its these people who I think Plan A stands a better chacne of working for.

One final thing, I hung around her sucking up to her and being a "nice guy" for months, she went off with the OM and I NEVER UNDERSTOOD why her friends said, go back to your career (I gave it up to be close to her) and she WILL COME to you.

I never understood why she would do that supposedly back then at the peak of the affair. The answer would seem to be because she was waiting for me to grow my balls back and I didnt. He was a diversion to us, and still is because I have ignored what was staring me in the face, ie self development.

I wonder how many guys this applies to and how many women are unhappy with the OM but dont want their "wimp" husband back. They are secretly desperate for him to get his pride and balls back so they can come back to their marriage.

MAZEL TOV..... Welcome to personal recovery.

Plan A is about you becoming the very best person you want to be. It's about you and you making changes that you have always wanted to.

You have done good sir... Keep us posted how you walk this new line.

It's funny cos its taken me 3 months of her living with me but messing around with OM plus 6 months before that when I didnt know she was cheating plus 2 months being separated and supposedly doing Plan A to realise what the ****** she was talking about when she talked about control and pressure and what I was doing wrong, I just hope its not too late!

I wonder how many other "nice guys" are still trying to please their WW in Plan A and getting it completely wrong....

When the student is ready the teacher will appear.

People tell us on here all the time things, but sometimes it just takes us to be in the place G-d needs us to be to hear.

Yeah, I havent really GOT Plan A until now.
I think a lot of people dont and go to Plan B
I think Plan A is ESPECIALLY relevant to guys like me who have been "nice" and not seen the problems associated with this.
To say a light switch has been turned on is a HUGE understatement.
:-)

Spike,

I do think you are getting it. IN plan A you are supposed to meet your W's EN's as best you can. What you failed to figure out was that her EN's included an H that was her partner not her lacky. People often make the mistake that meeting EN's is being willing to jump off a bridge for the WS. It is finding out what they truly need and meeting those needs WHILE establishing YOUR boundaries for what you will accept from them. It is showing a way back.

I do think you are getting it now. She has a EN for a partner.

Please think about it.

God Bless,

JL

Yeah I am. the worst thing though is that she has been giving me hints for months, even before V-day and before I GOT IT she was giving me hints, and I thought I was being a great guy but didnt understand what she meant.
I just hope its not too late!

I am one of the "nice guys" you are talking about. I recently posted that my plan a was not working well, and i think it's becuase I'm trying too hard to be everything she wanted me to be in the past, but that's just pushing her further away. she's still at home, sleeping on the couch now and continuing her A. she even told me that if I followed the rules on MB for plan A her decision to work on or M would be much easier....

I am in the same boat. I've just had this realisation after reading the book, I suggest you get it.
I am probably like you from your post:
- Thought I was doing a great job, giving her money, being nice, always saying yes to everything etc etc
BUT she was still having affair
BUT like you shes been giving me hints all the time, trying to help me but I did not see it.

I've spent weeks wondering why when she is unhappy in her affair is she not coming home, I think I just found the answer.

Read the book, it will blow your mind on every page, you can download it from palm digital media as an ebook I think.

aph - I forgot to add that I still need to practice what I preach but read the link on the top of the page to my latest post and go to the last page, see what happened on valentines day.....complete different attitude from her because I was different AND after she told all her friends about it!

I'll definately get the book, I've read plenty so far and lookng for more thanks....she's still home and things with OM aren't so great for her becauase he is exteemly jelous and mad that she won't just pack her bags and leave, If I could figure out how to show her I'm not weak it would work for sure, I just don't want to throw her right into his arms, although that itself might be just what she needs since he's an immature punk that lives in his aunts basement, AHH this is so hard.

I know exactly where you are coming from.
My wife has been living with him for 2 months which has thrown the cold light of day onto the fantasy.
He is very controlling of her, she thinks the sex is boring now, shes unhappy and has no money. But shs still stays there.
I couldnt work it out until now.
I thought that by being extra nice, chasing her, giving her stuff etc etc I would get her back, well that didnt work....
It's me, and you by the sound of it.....
I think both our wives are giving us chances to change, to stop being wimpy doormats and to put ourselves first.
I know it is so scary, I have been a "nice guy" all my life but where the ****** has it got me.....
I gave up everything to be with her, career, home country etc and that didnt work.....

I guess I look at it this way:
I've tried for 5 months since I knew for sure to separate them, dirty tricks, being nice, everything and nothing has worked.
She's given me loads of hints, about what she didnt like about me and likes about him.
And what it comes down to is this:
She likes the generous loving side of me but not the wimp.
She likes the man in him but not the control or lack of money.
He has the edge because its new, fresh lovebank and all of that but she is urging me subconsiously to win, not just because of marriage but because of the connection and history we share.
So with I man up and grow a pair OR thats it shes gone forever, same as you man.

We both have to try something new. Period.

Spike - have you read any of b0b Pure's posts here on MB? Do a search on that user name (notice that it's b-0-b) - I think it's exactly what you're looking for.

Good luck.
Mulan

I don't know this book, and I'm really dubious about any suggested strategy for life based on "no more Mr. nice guy." Seems to me that's a philosophy that is WAY too easy to turn into "welcome to Mr. domineering guy." HOWEVER, to the extent that book has helped you understand Plan A is about YOU, then I applaud its effect.

You see, there is no way on God's green earth YOU can change your WW. Read that again. YOU cannot change your wife or any other person, for that matter. What you CAN do, is change yourself and by changing to someone more attractive, you can influence your WW to change her own behavioral patterns. Plan A can do that for you. Plan A is all about you becoming "all that you can be." Spike, being quietly confident in yourself, happy in your own skin, warm and humane in everything you do is incredibly attractive to members of the opposite sex. If you are dependent on your spouse for your self-worth, you're heading in the wrong direction. It's called co-dependency. Look up the threads on that subject here on MB and also on the net.

So you're finally ready to do a real Plan A, eh? So tell us what you're going to do, Spike. What things about yourself are you going to work on? You've probably lost weight during all of this. Most do...but it's an unhealthy loss. Are you jogging to get back into shape? Going to the gym and working out? You using that body bag to punch and take out your aggressions?

How about things that keep you busy and improve you in other ways? What have you always wished you had the time/energy/motivation to do? You want to go skydiving or scuba? Photography? Maybe some woodworking or auto mechanics courses would be right down your alley. Or, perhaps it's time for you to read those classic books you've always meant to, but never did.

You see, Spike. You can't afford to obsess over you WW right now. You can't make her see the light...she must see it for herself. If every moment of every day is consumed by worry, you're going to drive yourself to an early grave and that's clearly non-productive. Use all your resources to keep busy, to stay focused on being the best human being you can be, and become the man most attractive to your WW.

What's your plan, Spike?

LH

Hi LH,
The book doesnt advocate domineering guys but it advocates a healthy male attitude to life rather than a guy getting his self worth from a woman or from others. Theres a lot more to it, but I identified with so much that my happiness has for too long been tied into women in my life or what others think of me.

Basically I changed my life to be with her in a bad way, moved country, gave up friends and career and lost money, and for the past weeks/months more of the same.

When she met me I was successful, worked for a multi national company and travlled the world.

Little wonder that I am not attractive to her now (along with the extra pounds, though the affair diet has helped)

So until Valentines day, I thought I had been doing Plan A but I hadn't. I had been doing more of the same, sucking up, being a wimp, anything to make her happy, putting me last, no boundaries etc etc etc

Valentines day was a new me and it had very promising results (see last page of my latest post link). I even found out that she had told her friends how great it was!

I have stopped obsessing over her and what she was and is doing. I just read aph's post and I was like that 10 days ago....now I am putting myself number 1 and although it is difficult I have relaxed (like the gerbil story)
I havent spoken to her for four days wheras normally that would drive me crazy (due to holidays and she hasnt been able to get away from him) and I actually feel good that I have some control over my life now.

As for a concrete Plan,

- I am going to stop obsessing over her. If she doesn't call, is in a bad mood whatever, I am going to let it wash over me.
- I am not going to chase her anymore, I will answer her calls but not be predicatble and call her all the time.
- I am going to do a proper Plan A and get my pride and self worth back while being polite and friendly to her but not definitely not be a wimp and doormat.
- I am going to go back to my career even if it means moving away from her, as I know almost 99% that she would probably follow me once I have my pride and career back.
- When I do that I will Plan B in the next few weeks.

I am actually beginning to feel happy and positive about things for the first time in 6 months....

Oh and Im going to stop being so negative.

How does that sound?

Spike you have said this


At least five times in your posts in the last week.

You have to apply loving detachment or you will end up murdering somebody. Really.

And get ADs. FFS.

lol
I am getting ADs but I am actually getting there now with loving detachment, since V-day I have finally got it, and havent spoken to her for 4 days now and I'm ok. I'm doing the gerbil thing :-) and I feel good.
I just like that she thinks the sexy is boring....oops said it again...

Spike,

It sounds like you've come to some realizations about yourself. I think that's fantastic.

I agree with you that it's common.

IMO, today's society in general encourages men to value being "nice" above being good LEADERS.

Another book that you might find of interest is Wild at Heart by John Eldredge.

Here is a brief description of the book:

John Eldredge believes that what really is in the heart of men has been badly missed. "When all is said and done, I think most men believe God put them on the earth to be a good boy", writes Eldredge in Wild at Heart. "The problem with men, we are told, is that they don't know how to keep their promises, be spiritual leaders, talk to their wives, or raise their children. But if they will try really hard, they can reach the lofty summit of becoming...a nice guy. That's what we hold up as models of Christian maturity: Really Nice Guys."

Now in all your boyhood dreams growing up, did you ever dream of becoming a nice guy? Ladies, was the Prince of your dreams dashing...or merely nice? Eldredge believes that this dedication to niceness is the reason there are so many tired and lonely women, so many fatherless children and so few men around. He writes, "We've taken away the dreams of a man's heart and told him to play the man. As C.S. Lewis said, 'We castrate the gelding and big him be fruitful."

Deep in his heart, every man longs for a battle to fight, an adventure to live, and a beauty to rescue. That is how he bears the image of God; that is what God made him to be.

Yeah its weird the thing is its difficult to draw these conclusions about yourself then difficult to change, therefore its very common I think. I would bet $$$ its the reason why a lot of guys fail in Plan A.

I will have a look at the book, it is definitely in a similar vein to "No More Mr Nice Guy".

I've thought a lot about the last 15 years since I was 18 and realised that the happiest times in my life came from a sense of pride in who I was and that I was doing a good job. I felt energised and powerful and a man then, and I guess to a woman that was very attractive indeed. It was the man my wife met.

Now I dont have any of that and she has actually told me all of it as well and said I dont have pride, was controlling, pressured her etc. she tried to help me, but I didnt see it all came from being a "nice guy" and putting her above everything and sacrificing everything for her.

It doesn't work, now I'm going to put myself first and hopefully she will follow.

As a woman, I have to say YES...it is something that I find extremely attractive.

A man who knows how to be a leader and who knows how to command respect without being controlling...very good qualities, IMO.