KAG, I would vow to run interference on her affair. Don't give up so easily. It is worth it and I suspect there is a good reason why she does not want you to talk to her H. Because she has something to HIDE.

I would try calling him tonight using *67 or going to his house if you can't get him on the phone.

Ok, planning on driving by the apt. today. Will try to find the mailbox and see if both are there. I am going to try and mail him a letter asking him to speak to me. It seems like she is interfering with the phone....

WH says to my intermediary if I talk to OWH I won't know fact from fiction. As if I could believe what WH says. All I say is liar, liar pants on fire.

Boy I am steamed today <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

So my intermediary does a poor job of filtering WH messages and this letter comes through. I think it stinks, not really taking responsiblity for his actions...what do you all think?
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Your Mom and I find ourselves in a difficult situation and we are trying to sort things out between us. The reasons for the difficulty are both simple and complicated.

Last summer I did something that I vowed I would never ever do, which was to get involved in a relationship with another person, named Debra. I’ve spent a lot of time trying to understand why I did this…why I broke my promise to your Mom.

The relationship with Debra was the catalyst that caused me to realize that your Mom and I had become emotionally separated from each other. We didn’t share how we felt about our lives together. We didn’t express our fears or our needs to each other, and we hadn’t done so for a very long time.

Why not? Because we had built up walls around ourselves to protect us from painful emotions.

My wall arose because ever since I was young I had a deep fear of being rejected and abandoned (although I didn’t realize this until just recently) and I had strong aversion to conflict. I now realize that these fears have shaped much of my life. Deep down, I needed to receive approval and acceptance from others and I tried to get this by making others happy. And I’ve always done whatever it takes to avoid conflict, either by doing something to make things better or if this didn’t work, then I’d simply avoid the situation or block it out. I was not good at experiencing and being with emotional pain; I hated it and I wanted to avoid it at all costs.

I’ve done this almost all my life but now I see that it doesn’t work. No matter how hard I tried, there were times when I simply couldn’t make other people happy, including your Mom….there were painful things that I simply couldn’t fix or make go away. And when this happened I felt frustrated, angry, rejected, and unloved, and I started building a wall to protect myself from these feelings. In trying to make everyone else happy, I often wasn’t being true to myself, and so my real self became locked up inside the wall too, unable to be expressed for fear of causing conflict. Over many years this wall became so thick that it caused me to go numb…it stopped me from feeling pain, but it also prevented me from giving and receiving love.

And in the absence of love, there is an absence life.

Debra helped me realize that my wall existed and she helped break it down, and for this I am grateful. I wish I could have seen my wall and destroyed it on my own, because my relationship with Debra caused a lot of pain to your Mom and I and other family and friends that we love, but it had been around for many years and I wasn’t able to see it, and so now I must move forward from here.

I hope your Mom and I can create a new, better relationship, where walls don’t exist and where we share the joy, the pain, and the love with each other.

No matter what happens, your Mom and I will always love you. But even more importantly, I hope you learn to love yourselves…no matter what.



Then on top of that, he asks the boys to call him via intermediary. So they call and talk and then he asks to speak to me. I had to tell my youngest I didn't want to talk to dad. Ugh <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

So wait... he wrote this letter to your boys?? I'm really confused. I mean, this doesn't sound like a letter you'd write to an 11 YO and an 8 yo with special needs....

It sounds like he is writing the letter TO YOU and using it is "for the boys" as an EXCUSE.

And yeah, the self-introspection part, great. Its good he's done some self-introspection. Really, I'm guessing there's probably more he needs to work on with himself than just that... and I don't like that he is blaming his unhappiness on the fact that he "couldn't make you happy". And the last two paragraphs make me want to barf.... so what... he realizes his mistakes but instead of trying to FIX THEM he's just going to run away from them and hurt a lot of people in the process?? BARF BARF BARF.

You need a new intermediary if she's passing along this crap. Does she understand... you want contact DIRECTLY concerning the kids (ie, Johnny has a fever, Bobby had his soccer practice moved from 4 pm to 6 pm... etc... and that's IT...) or finances. That's it. None of this emotional sappy crap-- even if it is DISGUISED as "for the boys".

Oh-- and continue with the exposure. Don't be afraid of it. Yeah, your H and OW are going to be pissed. Of course! But it will help break their little bubble world.

CHANGE THOSE LOCKS, GET A NEW INTERMEDIARY... stop falling for his 'TRICKS'. He's manipulating you.

TT

I did talk to my intermediary and she is going to try harder to screen.

He was going to give the letter to the boys when they are older or some crap like that. I was beyond pissed when I read it. He takes no responsiblity for his actions, it is all psycho-babble. I think he is over the deep end.

I am seriously thinking of filing for legal seperation at this point. This is NOT the person I have previously know for 20 years. I am concerned for my kids and myself.

oh cool! With this letter he can SPIN the boys with lies and rationalizations because they have never been TOLD THE TRUTH ABOUT HIS AFFAIR. Now he can teach them to grow up and be little liars and cheaters by demonstrating to them that ADULTERY is acceptable under certain circumstances. Like father, like son!

Oh well, maybe they will grow up and learn right from wrong out of a BOOK or a church when they are 40, because they were not taught this when they were kids. Welcome to a life of MORAL CONFUSION and SELF DOUBT.

See, this is exactly WHY you should tell your kids the truth, KAG. Because not telling them and giving them MORAL GUIDANCE, WHICH IS YOUR GOD GIVEN DUTY, leaves them vulnerable to the SPIN and LIES of your wayward H.

Please BURN the letter and sit your boys down and tell them the TRUTH about the affair. Then give them MORAL GUIDANCE and explain WHY adutlery is immoral. If you DO NOT, they will grow up not knowing right from wrong.

Your H should contact the boys directly. He can call the house and you can let them take his calls. The intermediary is only for you. You did GOOD not taking the phone when your H asked for you. I would tell the boys WHY you are not talking to him and ask them not to hand you the phone again.

Oh no, be assured he is rationalizing the affair to the boys BECAUSE HE INTENDS ON BRINGING HIS BOYS INTO THIS HAPPY AFFAIR. This is what a wayward does in order to "normalize" his adultery. If he can get his kids adjusted to his affair partner, the transistion will be much easier. So, he is using the kids to give his affair a false air of respectibilty and teaching them that adultery is NORMAL and acceptable under certain conditions.

My mother sat silent as g-damn treee stump while my philandering dad introduced me to his wh*res. I honestly thought I must be RETARDED because apparently, what seemed very WRONG to me WAS NOT WRONG TO ADULTS! obviously, my instincts about right and wrong must be WRONG, right? So, I grew up profoundly morally confused and was taught early on to DOUBT by instincts about right and wrong. Children learn to DOUBT themselves if adults do not validate those instincts.

Be assured, KAG, that as soon as your H is alone with those boys, he will start to work on convincing them that his filthy affair is perfectly acceptable, and because they have never beEN TAUGHT OTHERWISE, they will believe that, BECAuSE HE IS THEIR DAD.

You have left your kids wide open to be misled and spun by a WAYWARD person if you don't do something NOW about it. In the absence of truthful information, you have left a huge vacuum that will be filled. It can be filled with the TRUTH along with your moral guidance or it can be filled with your H's LIES and RATIONALIZATIONS. Take your pick.

Good Lord.

Kag, please burn that letter. Your boys must never, ever see it.

"Boys, meet Debra. She likes puppies & kitties & funny movies, just like you! She's really nice and..."

Make you wanna gag? Well, either you tell them the TRUTH or you wait for your H to paint a pretty, happy picture based on LIES. And afterwards, expect them to roll their eyes at you when you cry, disrespect your curfews, OH boy...

Honey, this is tough but this alien & his evil sidekick are attacking your marriage - what are you going to do about this? At the VERY least, you MUST make sure your boys come out on the SANE side of this ordeal. Please, tell them tonight - NOW - before H gets to them. It is detrimental.

KAG, please note that your H has no compunctions about lying to your boys, while you are hesitant to tell them the TRUTH. Children can deal with the truth, they cannot deal with LIES. You are setting your kids up for some bad crap if you don't tell them and give them some much needed moral guidance. You don't help them AT ALL by withholding the truth from them.

You guys are right.......just feels like it seals the divorce deal.

KAG, feelings are not truth. I know it seems hard to believe right now, but it does not seal any deal. You are not divorced and won't until you are......divorced. We have seen much, much worse come back from the dead. The affair has the greatest odds of crumbling. It was doomed from the start. Your H is not saying anything differently than what we see here EVERY DAY. DAY IN AND DAY OUT.

But we need you to really focus now and stay on track. You can't allow yourself to get sidetracked by this stuff and I would implore your IM to stop giving you this stuff. If she has any questions on how to do this, have her email me at ohmelodylane@aol.com and I will help her discern how and what should be passed on to you. We need her to PROTECT you from this stuff.

In the meantime, can we get back to work here?

As I see it you have 2 jobs on your immediate list:

1. contacting the OWH and having a discussion with him

2. telling your kids the truth because you can be assured your H will spin them the next time he has them alone - you have seen his talking points

OK maybe I am in la-la land but he is not living with her right now he is at a friends. He has had NC for 2 weeks and moved his office.

I am destroying any chances of him meeting plan b requirements by pissing him off? Am I pushing him right at her?

Print this up and keep it taped to your computer:

1. How often (percentage-wise) do As end? Is 97% correct?

Dr. Willard Harley: My experience, and the experience of other professionals is that about 95% of all affairs either end by one person deciding to end it, or that it dies a natural death. Of the five percent that end in marriage, about 70% of those end in divorce. There are a host of reasons that romantic relationships that start with an affair are so fragile, but the main reason is that they are based on deceit, thoughtlessness, and dishonesty. Those characteristics eventually find themselves permeating the affair itself. They eventually find themselves being deceitful, thoughtless, and dishonest toward each other.

You don't know what he is doing. But you do know he is having an affair and is in love with another woman.


He already is with her. If he wants to come back, wild horses will not stop him and that will not happen until his affair is over. Your goal is to save your marriage, not to avoid pissing him off at all costs. Your marriage can survive some temporary anger, IT CANNOT SURVIVE AN ONGOING AFFAIR.

Thanks I needed that!

But what about when people are in plan A and the wayward spouse in unsure (not roaring to be there)but you both are trying? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

This is frustrating. Located phone number and address under his name but SHE is at location and has access to phone. It is an apt building so I wonder are the side by side or living together. She already ran interference on phone. Drove by and saw her car there. It seems like I need to find where he works to get him alone. I don't even know what he looks like or where he works.

Then you go to Plan B until the WS IS sure. Just like you are doing.

What happens when you call there? What greeting is on the answering machine?

KAG, can you go knock on the door and ask for him?

Top opportunities I see to inflict damage on his affair:

1. speak to OWH and get his side and give him any evidence he may need

2. expose to OW's mother [this will poison the well as far as bringing your H into her family]

3. have your MIL call the OW and ask her to stop her affair with her son. This will also have the effect of killing any future hope of integration into your in-laws family